3223 réponses à ce sujet

[Darji]

Ok here is Biowares take on deeper RPG mechanics for ME3.

Casey Hudson: People really want us to deepen the RPG aspect of the
experience. We interpret that as being about the kind of intelligent
decision making around how you progress. To us, the RPG experience isn't
necessarily about stats and loot. It's about exploration and combat and
making a good character-driven story and good progression.



We had progression in Mass Effect 2 in armour and weapon choices but
that activity chain was too simple. That whole activity chain I think
was a button we weren't really pushing in ME2 and specifically were
trying to hit for ME3.

www.computerandvideogames.com/309188/mass-effect-3-bioware-on-surprises-inspiration-and-tough-decisions/

Guess they havent learned anthing from the feedback they recieved with Dragon Age 2.

[Malanek]

Personally I agree completely with Casey Hudsons first statement. I want a great charater driven story with great combat which can be approached in different ways by the different classes and even within the same class. Character progression is part of that to keep the gameplay from getting stale. I have no idea why people consider managing an inventory ME1 style or pointless roaming in the Mako to be RPing aspects.

[byzantine horse]

They say that "the RPG experience isn't necessarily about stats and loot", keyword necessarily. And what kind of RPG elements did ME1 have that ME2 didn't? Weapon mods and changable armor. And the latter never fit anyway, Shepard should have his/her N7-suit as much as Garrus should be dressed in blue and black. Weapon mods are back in ME3 so I can't see what you are complaining about.

Besides, have you been in hibernation for ~3 months? This came up during IGN's coverage which was months ago.

[MELTOR13]

Loot and pointless stats =/= RPG

Go back to board games and dice rolls if you want your 'hardcore' RPG.

[sp0ck 06]

I agree w/ Casey.

ME series should focus on what it does best - big story, great characters, cinematics, dialogue, and action. There is no need to tack on "RPG elements" to appease hardcore RPG fans. It's not the point of the series.

Was The Matrix a bad action movie because it didn't have a car chase scene, a "staple" of the genre?

[Sharn01]

Loot that means something is nice in a game, and I always like stats, but explorations, which was very lacking in ME2 and non exsistent in DA2 along with the character choices driving the story, if that is what he means, is far more important, so in that sense I will agree with him.

[Siven80]

Its a good and correct statement.

Loot and stats, while they can be nice, dont make an RPG.

[Kabanya101]

Stats like the number of crotch shots I've hit on enemies is pointless, along with an inventory system.

The two most important parts of an RPG are character immersion, (hence ROLE Playing Game) and character customization examples are: class tree, armor, weapons, ect.

The armory with the whole weapons and armor was good in ME2 and very life like, but add more depth to it. I know they're doing that to weapons, but how about armor. Mods were used for armor as well as guns, so increase shield, storm speed, recharge rate would be great implements into armor customization. As well as different armor plates and coloring.

[IrishSpectre257]

Darji wrote...

Guess they havent learned anthing from the feedback they recieved with Dragon Age 2.

Why would Casey "learn" anything from a game he had nothing to do with?

[KingNothing125]

what exactly is your criticism of what he said? I happen to agree with that quotation in full.

loot is all well and good... I played the heck out of Diablo 2 when it was new, and I was a quasi-hardcore raider in WoW for close to 5 years. but it gets tedious when you have loot like in ME1 or Borderlands where you get mountains of crap for every one nice thing you find. And having to vendor things one at a time. Or converting things to omni-gel one at a time.

I'm all for simplified.

[Welsh Inferno]

Oh look its this thread again.

[sbvera13]

I agree with Casey, at least as he phrased it. ME2 was light, in story AND in progression mechanics. Somewhere between ME1/Kotor and ME2 lies an action/RPG sweet spot, and it sounds like they are aiming for it. I have my doubts, based on what I've read about released mechanics so far, but it's good to see they are trying.

[archurban]

looting is not a big deal for today RPG as many as crates you can open. plus, each crate gives you enough ammo, or money whatever.

[Catsith]

I dunno. Every time someone asks Bioware that question of "What is an RPG?" they always give an answer that describes Action-Adventure games. Stats and loot is something that I think most RPG players look forward to in games.. it doesn't necessarily need to be an overwhelming amount of stuff, but I think it's pretty weird that Casey and other Bioware devs seem to want to cut that entire experience out of RPGs or trim it down to the bare minimum (ME2), while most other RPG developers out there embrace it, and see tremendous success with their games. It's a shame Bioware have chosen this path, imo.. but I'm still happy that they've added in weapon customization for ME3, at the very least.

[Hennex]

Personally, I find nothing wrong with Casey's statement. I like how their focusing on trying to make game better instead of adding in things like the inventory system from ME1.

[88mphSlayer]

Catsith wrote...

I dunno. Every time someone asks Bioware that question of "What is an RPG?" they always give an answer that describes Action-Adventure games. Stats and loot is something that I think most RPG players look forward to in games.. it doesn't necessarily need to be an overwhelming amount of stuff, but I think it's pretty weird that Casey and other Bioware devs seem to want to cut that entire experience out of RPGs or trim it down to the bare minimum (ME2), while most other RPG developers out there embrace it, and see tremendous success with their games. It's a shame Bioware have chosen this path, imo.. but I'm still happy that they've added in weapon customization for ME3, at the very least.

neither action/adventure nor rpg's rely on combat alone tho, action/adventure games heavily rely on puzzles/platforming to bolster what would otherwise be a boring combat experience, similarly rpg's heavily relied on stats in the past to bolster what would otherwise be a boring combat experience

as for divergent storylines, that's not in any way a trademark of rpg's, non-rpg's have done that too (most recent example is the infamous series)

so with that said Bioware's take on rpg mechanics and what it means to the rpg genre? well it mostly just sounds like removing interactivity, streamlining essentially, i mean i'm all for making combat more "exciting" or "better" but what's the point of making gameplay less dynamic?

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 30 juin 2011 - 10:26 .

[Morroian]

Darji wrote...

Guess they havent learned anthing from the feedback they recieved with Dragon Age 2.

His take on role playing aligns with mine, problem with the ME series is that the role playing in ME2 doesn't match that statement, hopefully ME3 will move back towards it.

Mind you I think stats in some form will always have some sort of role in rpgs, not loot though. 

[CheeseEnchilada]

RPGs have multiple definitions for different people. One person may see character interaction as the essential component, while others believe it to be stats and loot.

In short, arguing the definition of an RPG is going to go nowhere.

As for the OP's comment? IrishSpectre257 nailed it.

[matt-bassist]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I agree w/ Casey.

ME series should focus on what it does best - big story, great characters, cinematics, dialogue, and action. There is no need to tack on "RPG elements" to appease hardcore RPG fans. It's not the point of the series.

Was The Matrix a bad action movie because it didn't have a car chase scene, a "staple" of the genre?

HOLY S****! I can't believe there wasn't a car chase in The Matrix!!!

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

This is correct. Numbers =/= deep RPG gameplay - just look at Oblivion. Deep gameplay is the result of deep options, not hitting the other guys in the face with the biggest numbers you can find.

[Homebound]

i think this is evolution of rpg's. enough redundant/passive stats or junk items. RPG game elements need to improve.

Modifié par Hellbound555, 30 juin 2011 - 10:35 .

[Shepard Lives]

Darji wrote...

Ok here is Biowares take on deeper RPG mechanics for ME3.

Casey Hudson: People really want us to deepen the RPG aspect of the
experience. We interpret that as being about the kind of intelligent
decision making around how you progress. To us, the RPG experience isn't
necessarily about stats and loot. It's about exploration and combat and
making a good character-driven story and good progression.

www.computerandvideogames.com/309188/mass-effect-3-bioware-on-surprises-inspiration-and-tough-decisions/

Guess they havent learned anthing from the feedback they recieved with Dragon Age 2.

But I agree with Mr. Hudson!  Does that make me a bad person? I don't want to be a bad person.

[GreenSoda]

We need to go deeper.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

It sounds like they're trying to be ironic with their RPG design.

Players expect loot from an RPG; therefore, they're trying to break the mold by limiting/removing them. Players expect stats in an RPG; therefore, they're trying to break the mold by limiting/removing them.

Loot rewards exploration, and stats make it easier for the player to choose how to upgrade their character. So where does that leave them? With a whole new problem: how to replace loot and stats with something that's at least equally effective, and makes exploration equally rewarding and progression equally accessible.

TBH I can't see how you can want to have good, player-controlled character progression and not want stats. If I'm correct, stats = numerical or visual (ie. bar) representations of important values like weapon damage, power damage, shield strength, etc... isn't taking those away equivalent to making things less accessible or harder than they should be? Is the goal to give players less information to worry about, or simply to make the process more invisible (by not letting players see actual representations of behind-the-scenes stats)?