3223 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarevok Synder]

Phaedon wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...
I know, but we're talking about the claim it takes seven to produce one bloody weapon!

Stop acting as if all these seven do is develop this weapon.

It's one of the multiple projects they are working on daily. Every week one will be finished, and another will replace it.

That still doesn't mean it will take seven.

[Phaedon]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Why should I need a comeback? You've got nothing to back up your claim.

It's a fact that that is how the development process has been going on for years. What you need is evidence as to why BioWare decided to use an unorthodox method and have a game designer do the...I don't know?

Everything, from textures, models, music, programing and art in general on their own.

[RedCaesar97]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Creating a weapon pack is not just changing some stats or some textures. It's creating everything from scratch.

Yeah, I'm gonna cut in here. As a programmer myself, I can tell you that no programmer will start from scratch for a job that's been done before unless prior work is outdated and/or of bad quality, which shouldn't be the case here. If they have common sense, the programmer(s) handling this will use the code that's been written for the other weapons.

Would it take seven of you to produce one weapon? I doubt it does anyway, am I wrong?

If its seven of me, then no. I cannot program so seven of me not programming will produce zero weapons.

[Praetor Knight]

@ Sarevok Synder,

Dude, at this point I seriously hope you are just trolling us. No need to keeping being so sassy, IMHO.

If you disagree, then lets agree to disagree and move on.

[Sarevok Synder]

Mesina2 wrote...


Key word, changes.

C H A N G E S

Not creating something new from scratch.

I didn't say he did. I'm using it as an example as to why I doubt it would take seven BW staff to produce one weapon, that's all.

[Sarevok Synder]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

@ Sarevok Synder,

Dude, at this point I seriously hope you are just trolling us. No need to keeping being so sassy, IMHO.

If you disagree, then lets agree to disagree and move on.

Yeah, I'm down with that.

[Phaedon]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
That still doesn't mean it will take seven.

Sit through the credits next time you finish either game. 

These roles do exist. And that's how they work.

They are all experts applying their experience to specific parts of every new feature. 

[InvaderErl]

Sarevok Synder wrote...


Yeah but he made huge changes for version 10 over about five months. Just one guy.

I don't know how huge those changes were but I took a peek at the version 9 trailer and it did not seem that drastically different. Via the changelong it looked like he added some effects and made fixes and changes on existing systems.

When you take into account he had been working on that system for 5 years prior and knew it like the back of his hand, not to mention he had already likely began work prior to the first release of version 10 and its less a superhuman feat of one man and an extreme show of dedication and patience that he worked on it for that long.

He wasn't working in the dark here, he was building on the work of others (and did a very good job at that) and it still took him 5 years to even reach that point.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 14 juillet 2011 - 09:40 .

[Someone With Mass]

I don't think some guy with custom tools and a company like BioWare have the same work structure.

In fact, I rather doubt it.

[Mister Mida]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Creating a weapon pack is not just changing some stats or some textures. It's creating everything from scratch.

Yeah, I'm gonna cut in here. As a programmer myself, I can tell you that no programmer will start from scratch for a job that's been done before unless prior work is outdated and/or of bad quality, which shouldn't be the case here. If they have common sense, the programmer(s) handling this will use the code that's been written for the other weapons.

Would it take seven of you to produce one weapon? I doubt it does anyway, am I wrong?

I've no experience with gaming development on this level. But seven programmers for one weapon? I'd be surprised if this was the case. I'd say one programmer could handle the coding of one weapon, especially with the plenty of work to start from. Two at the most. More would definitely be overkill. Don't take my word on it, though. Because I've zero experience on this.

[Sarevok Synder]

Phaedon wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Why should I need a comeback? You've got nothing to back up your claim.

It's a fact that that is how the development process has been going on for years. What you need is evidence as to why BioWare decided to use an unorthodox method and have a game designer do the...I don't know?

Everything, from textures, models, music, programing and art in general on their own.

So it's a fact it takes seven professionals to produce one weapon? I doubt it. Seriously this is becoming a joke. I think it's time to call it a day.

Someone with mass wrote....
I don't think some guy with custom tools and a company like BioWare have the same work structure.

In fact, I rather doubt it.

Wow Sherlock you’re smart!  Of course they don’t have the same work structure; talk about stating the obvious! If it takes Bioware seven people to do a fraction of what one guy can do, then there is a serious problem with that situation. This guy did it on his spare time. He wasn’t paid for it, yet if some here are to be believed it takes Bioware multiple people to do a lot less than he could and in more time. This guy in the beginning was churning out complete weapon redesigns in a matter of days; this was before he started the Cinematic Mods.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 15 juillet 2011 - 02:54 .

[Sarevok Synder]

InvaderErl wrote...

I don't know how huge those changes were but I took a peak at the version 9 trailer and it did not seem that drastically different. Via the changelong it looked like he added some effects and made fixes and changes on existing systems.

When you take into account he had been working on that system for 5 years prior and knew it like the back of his hand, not to mention he had already likely began work prior to the first release of version 10 and its less a superhuman feat of one man and an extreme show of dedication and patience that he worked on it for that long.

He wasn't working in the dark here, he was building on the work of others (and did a very good job at that) and it still took him 5 years to even reach that point.

For the work he put in, and considering he was doing it in his spare time. Five years isn’t bad for all the mods. The guys a legend!

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 14 juillet 2011 - 09:42 .

[Phaedon]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
So it's a fact it takes seven programmers to produce one weapon? I doubt it. Seriously this is becoming a joke. I think it's time to call it a day.

Mister Mida wrote...
I've no experience with gaming development on this level. But seven programmers for one weapon? I'd be surprised if this was the case. I'd say one programmer could handle the coding of one weapon, especially with the plenty of work to start from. Two at the most. More would definitely be overkill. Don't take my word on it, though. Because I've zero experience on this.

Seven programmers?

What are you two on about?

[didymos1120]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

So it's a fact it takes seven programmers to produce one weapon? 

Who said seven programmers?  No, it would require probably just one of those.  But it would also require others to do the art, modeling, sound design, playtesting, etc.  Because there's this thing called "division of labor".  Corporations are pretty big on it.

[InvaderErl]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

For the work he put in, and considering he was doing it in his spare time.

Five years isn’t bad for all the mods. The guys a legend!

I agree the work put in is extremely good and I've seen entire mod teams crumble before ever putting in a fraction of that work.

I'm just saying that especially when you consider how much effort on his part it took and the time and money, its clear that making professional level work that is ready for consumer consumption is not something that any modder can go and do.

This modder, exceptional as he was, spent years getting his mod to version 10.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 14 juillet 2011 - 09:45 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Mister Mida wrote...

I've no experience with gaming development on this level. But seven programmers for one weapon? I'd be surprised if this was the case. I'd say one programmer could handle the coding of one weapon, especially with the plenty of work to start from. Two at the most. More would definitely be overkill. Don't take my word on it, though. Because I've zero experience on this.

I would have thought one or two as well. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I see what others have done alone; I find it hard to believe.

InvaderErl wrote...
I agree the work put in is extremely good and I've seen entire mod teams crumble before ever putting in a fraction of that work.

I'm just saying that especially when you consider how much effort on his part it took and the time and money, its clear that making professional level work that is ready for consumer consumption is not something that any modder can go and do.

This modder, exceptional as he was, spent years getting his mod to version 10.

Yeah, it spanned five years, but he did it part time. I read some of his messages during it. He did most of his work at weekends, and he said he still liked to have a life. So in reality, he didn’t spend anything like five years working on it. It was mostly two days a week, probably for eight hours (as he wanted to still have a life), split over five years. Very impressive!  

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 14 juillet 2011 - 11:51 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Phaedon wrote...

Seven programmers?

What are you two on about?

You said seven professionals to me way back. Doesn't matter if it's programmers or not. I doubt it requires that many.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 14 juillet 2011 - 11:44 .

[Phaedon]

didymos1120 wrote...
Who said seven programmers?  No, it would require probably just one of those.  But it would also require others to do the art, modeling, sound design, playtesting, etc.  Because there's this thing called "division of labor".  Corporations are pretty big on it.

I just find it hard to believe that one can claim that the same person who does the textures also does the models, or perhaps the concept art in a professional game development studio.

[RedCaesar97]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

So it's a fact it takes seven programmers to produce one weapon? I doubt it. Seriously this is becoming a joke. I think it's time to call it a day.

Assuming one person for each, you would need:
 coding
 modelling and textures
 sound design
 testing

That's at least four people, and I am assuming that modelling and texturing is the same person (it may not be). And if the gun requires a new graphic for the weapon's screen, that requiress a graphics artist. And the weapon requires a write-up (email for Normandy, description for weapons locker) so a writer would get involved. That brings the total to 6.

[Sarevok Synder]

didymos1120 wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

So it's a fact it takes seven programmers to produce one weapon? 

Who said seven programmers?  No, it would require probably just one of those.  But it would also require others to do the art, modeling, sound design, playtesting, etc.  Because there's this thing called "division of labor".  Corporations are pretty big on it.

Phaedon Said it to me way back.

[CroGamer002]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Seven programmers?

What are you two on about?

You said seven to me way back?

No he didn't.

Phaedon wrote...
It's not? Prove me wrong.

Who comes up with the idea of how the weapon should work, and balances it afterwards? Not a gameplay designer?
Who creates concepts of the weapon? Not a concept artist?
Who creates the textures? Not a texture artist?
Who creates the models? Not a model artist?
Who does the testing? Not a QA team?
Who does the particle effects, not a visual effect artist?
Who does the statistics and implements the weapon in-game? Not a programmer?
Who creates the sound for it? Not a sound effect designer?

Yes, it is a FACT.

Stop being immature and accept it.

[Praetor Knight]

I think what happened was, that with the speed and volume of our posting, some details were buried in the past five pages or so.

[Someone With Mass]

Think of it like this: Is the medical staff at a hospital responsible for the security and the security surveillance?

[Phaedon]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Seven programmers?

What are you two on about?

You said seven to me way back?

Developers=/= programers

Programming is the least of the issues in a weapon pack.

You need a game designer to come up with the idea of how each weapon will work and send notes to the rest of the team, you need a concept artist to provide art for the model artist, the texture artist and the sound designer,

you need the model artist to create the model for the weapon, the texture artist to create textures for it, the sound designer to create sound effects for it,

a programer to implement into the game, along with it's stats, and a QA team to test it.

And of course a visual artist if you are not recycling particle effects.

Modifié par Phaedon, 14 juillet 2011 - 09:50 .

[Sarevok Synder]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

So it's a fact it takes seven programmers to produce one weapon? I doubt it. Seriously this is becoming a joke. I think it's time to call it a day.

Assuming one person for each, you would need:
 coding
 modelling and textures
 sound design
 testing

That's at least four people, and I am assuming that modelling and texturing is the same person (it may not be). And if the gun requires a new graphic for the weapon's screen, that requiress a graphics artist. And the weapon requires a write-up (email for Normandy, description for weapons locker) so a writer would get involved. That brings the total to 6.

If that's true it's no wonder games development costs have gone through the roof. 

Mesina2 wrote......

No he didn't.
 

He actually said seven "professionals," and I've serious doubts it requires that many.

Someone with mass wrote....
Think of it like this: Is the medical staff at a hospital responsible for the security and the security surveillance?

Sure; why not just include the cleaners and security at Biowares offices as well while you’re at it? They are involved with the company, so they’re obviously involved; although indirectly, in making the weapon too!  Kid, you’re “logic” leaves a lot to be desired.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 15 juillet 2011 - 03:29 .