Epic777 wrote...
@Gatt9 If it was so simple. The lines of genres have blurred. Shooters, RTS etc now have RPG elements. However RPGs have not added anything else from other genres.
Not really, unit advancement has existed in wargames and such for a very long time, it isn't new to the genre, though it might be "New" to the computer implementations. Nor is standing at a workbench and adding something to a weapon an RPG mechanic. It's a feature in some systems, but it's not a defining feature, and TBH it's got just as much in common with the old "Arcade Powerups" as it does RPG mechanics.
The lines between the genres hasn't blurred at all, because the lines delinate on defining features. A Shooter is Player Skill based, an RPG is Character Skill based, they're diametric opposites. Just like an RTS is Real Time and a TBS is Turn Based, diametrically opposed.
The supporting systems are immaterial. I can write an RPG tomorrow that doesn't have a line of dialogue, just an endless dungeon crawl. I can write an FPS tomorrow that is dialogue driven, you speak to people and go where they ask you to handle their problems if you feel it's worthy. These are systems that aren't necessary, but can be used to enhance the base gameplay, and often are.
Here's where the problem sets in. Let's look at pen and paper RPGs. I have a good bit of experience with DnD. But in general, has there ever been a pen and paper system which occurred in 'real-time' or that did not utilize a turn-based system?
Now, let's fast forward to current days. Take something like KotOR (where the game is turn-based) and you don't have a problem. The player simply denotes target selection. But what about Mass Effect? Morrowind? Dragon Age 2? These games have a much heavier emphasis on the 'real-time' play and begin to move into different territory.
Gamers have certain expectations for real time (since most other games occur in this style: shooters, sports, racing, platformers, etc). Morrowind's "hit or miss" attack animations, regardless of how RPG they may have been, felt very awkward to handle. And this is coming from someone who much prefers it to Oblivion.
When rpgs remain turn-based and avoid real time, there isn't a problem. It's when they attempt to move into other spheres of influence that they cannot expect to simply abide by traditional mechanics. In this sense, Mass Effect's tps elements were not up to par. I don't demand that Bioware make hybrids. They can stick with turn-based rpgs. But if they're going to implement tps mechanics, they better make damn sure they're fluid. Otherwise, why not make it turn-based in the first place and avoid all the hassle?
There has never been a RT PnP RPG, that leads us back into LARPS.
Here's the problem, it's not that Gamer's have certain expectations, it's that they lack understanding of what is occurring. I'm reminded of people who scream "Why'd my guy miss, he's standing right there!!!", not understanding that the hit/miss is a representation of a person's ability to dodge or their armor to absorb damage. This is why Damage Resistance was created, because people didn't understand, and refused to learn how things worked and why. That said, I'll freely admit that Armor class was a convuluted system and Damage Resistance is a more elegant solution to the same problem, but it's not the only example. "Why does the wolf have treasure! LOL YOURE SO STUPIDS!", because the concept of incidental treasure, from past victims, is lost upon them.
That's actually what the major problem is with RPGs, people don't understand how they work and why, and they often point blank refuse to learn, yet they still persist in claiming they're "RPG Players". It seems to me that they actually hate RPGs, though I suspect I know why they continue to claim they're "RPG Players".
It's likely because what they actually want is a Narrative they can affect, in their preferred type of gameplay. I suspect they're tired of the old FPS trope "Go kill everything that moves", and want some degree of interaction and a purpose for doing it upon their own terms. RPGs are, to date, the only games that permit you to do so, though one could argue Strategy games permit you some degree of affecting the story on your own terms as well.
All of that said, you're absolutely right in your conclusions, some systems do not mix, and ME series is one of them. (FPP/TPP + Guns) generates a familiar expectation that can't be easily handled in terms of TB/RT discussions.
Modifié par Gatt9, 10 juillet 2011 - 04:42 .
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