3223 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Skuggans wrote...

And people who think the game will be any different from the demo a few months away from the release are morons.

Game engine - Done cant be changed.
Graphics - Done, wont be changed.
Gameplay - Done, wont be changed.
Music - Done, wont be changed.
Voices - Done, wont be changed.

So whats left, a few months from the release date?

Well you got some npc's to add and some dialogues for them, maybe you want to enrich some areas graphics alittle by adding a stone here, a flower there. Oh and I almost forgot the most important, you want to market it a few months before, and you want to lay off some staff and give some of them other things to do for other games. But better keep 3-4 programmers for patches the first 3-4 months, then 1 guy should be able to handle it, just spread out 2-3 patches over the year and then leave it alone. If they get spare time between the patches they will add some DLC's that will make enough money to pay for the programmers providing us with patches.

Thats how EA do it, and thats how BioWare will do it.

Eight months. That's not "a few".

Mordin's voice in the demo was a placeholder. The GUI was riddled with obvious placeholders too. We saw characters with placeholder models. And if you really think that literally everything that was shown at E3 willl be in the final version of the game in the exact same way, you're delusional. 

We're getting constant information from the developers about changes to powers and classes as well. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Warkupo wrote...

People, a ROLE PLAYING GAME is one in which you play the role of a character and make choices which have an effect upon the story.

It's a shame ME's dialogue wheel prevents this from being possible.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

But he does not fail at combat. I'm not talking about missing content. I am talking about being able to beat to explore the environement. The interface for the player (for example) still shows the world as someone not mentally incapamble would see it. 

Why would a player with an intelligence of 3 not just wander into the desert and starve to death? How is that player can remember locations? How is it that player can even use tools?

But that's not what intelligence does. You use weapons right. You are allowed to have skills. And that's just Fallout. 2 

It hasn't worked. The game doesn't relate at all what it means not to be intelligent to that extent. Like I said: it still allows you to use tools. It allows you to see the environment in the same way. 

You have absolutely no idea how this works, biologically speaking. Seriously, it's best to just back away from this topic now.

Animals have a very complicated biological framework that - aside from experiential learning - relies on instict, development through rough and tumble play, smell, and complex social rituals.

More importantly, social animals are not (by the standards of their own species) cognitively deficient. 

I'll say again that RPGs have traditionally accepted dualism, so that the physical body and the mind are disconnected.  The player inhabits the mind of his character, but the body remains separate.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Lumikki wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

The problem is,  the game claims to be an ACTION RPG,  but ME2 possessed none of the qualities.

(fixed)

This is issue just for you. I don't think many other player here in this forum, has same "issue" than you have. They may say that RPG features was too simple, but I don't think many of them go so far and say ME2 has no RPG at all. This is because you have very narrow way looking RPG and role-playing.

http://en.wikipedia....le-playing_game

As little as 10 years ago, an action RPG was just an RPG with limited non-combat content.  Dungeon Siege fell squarely within the Action RPG genre, despite having entirely stat-driven combat that required very little (if any) input from the player.  But the whole thing was just one long hack&slash dungeon crawl, and it was an action RPG.

So keep in mind that any definition of action RPG needs to include games that fell within the genre in the past.

[Sylvius the Mad]

olymind1 wrote...

If your Shepard is a paragon one, and you made him/her do a renegade action, like pushing the merc out of window, the game should reduce your paragon points a LOT, and add points to your renegade-meter, because if (s)he can be so ruthless, than he is not so paragon after all... And the interrupts would be only available, if you have enough paragon or renegade points for it (like persuasion and intimidation), otherwise grayed out, so the interrupts should be also character actions, not player actions, because then it would depend mainly on Shepard, if he is able to do such an action, but choice would still in the players hand (like select red intimidation in dialog), has (s)he enough guts to push somebody out of the widow, is (s)he enough badass renegade to do that?

This is a terrible idea, because it forces Shepard to exist only along that narrow continuum.

If the player can imagine how Shepard might behave in a way you think is nonsensical, why shouldn't he be allowed to do that?

[True Zarken]

Icinix wrote...

SW:TOR - How to take a great single player game and throw it to the dogs.

I think it will carve itself a little niche, but I don't believe it will ever be uttered in history as a great game with members in 7 figures.

Shame really - KOTOR3 probably would have sold millions.

It is a real shame.

[slimgrin]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Warkupo wrote...

People, a ROLE PLAYING GAME is one in which you play the role of a character and make choices which have an effect upon the story.

It's a shame ME's dialogue wheel prevents this from being possible.

The wheel undermines it yes, but it doesn't entirely prevent it.

[AlanC9]

Skuggans wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

I expected better of you Alan,  it's *very* obvious that EA controls Bioware.  DA2's design and release,  having chosen to completely redesign DAO before it even released and they saw it's reception.  ME3's delay to add Kinect,  despite the fact that it doesn't actually add anything to the game,  just a marketing bullet point.  The DAO dev who resigned because of the sudden change in design direction.

It's very obvious who's in control,  and that it's not Bioware.

Hey, I'm not denying that EA controls Bioware, although my preferred phrase is  "Bioware is EA". I just don't think the difference between EA and Bioware is as great as some would have us believe.

Bio's always wanted to make mass-market products and lots of money. D&D is the lowest common denominator of RPG systems; Star Wars is the lowest common denominator of SF. Bio invented DLC on their own. Bio did an action RPG long before the EA purchase. And as for ME1's "RPG elements," what struck me about ME1 was that whoever was in charge of the design didn't seem to believe in loot and exploration any more than I do, at least judging from the zot allocation to those parts of the design

Do you really want to know what will happen to Starwars?

Actually, I don't. I have no interest whatsoever in TOR. I mentioned SW above because of KotOR, not TOR.

[Sylvius the Mad]

slimgrin wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Warkupo wrote...

People, a ROLE PLAYING GAME is one in which you play the role of a character and make choices which have an effect upon the story.

It's a shame ME's dialogue wheel prevents this from being possible.

The wheel undermines it yes, but it doesn't entirely prevent it.

If you don't know what your character is going to say or do as a result of your wheel selection, then you cannot be reasonably said to have chosen those words or actions.

[Gatt9]

Lumikki wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

The problem is,  the game claims to be an ACTION RPG,  but ME2 possessed none of the qualities.

(fixed)

This is issue just for you. I don't think many other player here in this forum, has same "issue" than you have. They may say that RPG features was too simple, but I don't think many of them go so far and say ME2 has no RPG at all. This is because you have very narrow way looking RPG and role-playing.

http://en.wikipedia....le-playing_game

  It appears ME3 will be much more in line with an RPG,  still lacking in the noncombat dept though.

All ME series games has been lacking in non-combat dept. I agree, too bad it could be fun.

There's 70 pages to this thread,  I think it's safe to say I'm not alone.  Head on over to RPGCodex,  post your claims,  see what happens.  Or 4chan's /v/.  Or even the D&D boards.  I'll warn you ahead of time,  none of those places will be nearly as polite as I am.

There's no RPG mechanics.  Sitting in front of your TV/Keyboard pretending you're in a Role when the game takes no notice of it doesn't make it an RPG.  I can pretend the Master Sergant is handing out flowers to all the misunderstood children of another world,  but since all the game supports is shooting them,  the Role I chose for my master segant doesn't exist.

Same with ME2,  and likely ME3,  I can pretend I'm the paragon of justice,  but since the game doesn't note outright murder,  it's all in my head.  Since it's all in my head,  there cannot be a Role.

I'm sorry,  but without stats to define your character,  you're just pretending at your screen,  you don't have a Role because the game fails to recognize one,  because the game doesn't permit you to define one.

Edit:

You might even want to read your own links,  especially the bottom section of it.  Kind of tanks your arguement,  since ME2 completely ignores consequence secondary to moral choices...

Modifié par Gatt9, 10 juillet 2011 - 11:50 .

[vallore]

In Exile wrote...

vallore wrote...
Personally, what I would really like to see is a better dialogue system. The current, (ME2) is very limitative, not allowing for us to truly play the role of a character of our choosing.  

Which part of the dialogue system? The alignment metres? Or the wheel?

While I find the wheel esthetically lacking, it is the Paragon/Renegade constrains to the available dialogue that I would like to see changed, in the current form it has.

I believe it would improve the game if we could opt to increase the social proficiency of our shepard, if we so desire, by buying ranks in a social skill. a social skill or skills we could develop could work as a bonus to the normal rank obtained through active dialogue choices. And if a player did not desired to buy/use those skills, then he would simply use the mechanism already present in ME2, without the new bonus.

[sp0ck 06]

Gatt9 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

The problem is,  the game claims to be an ACTION RPG,  but ME2 possessed none of the qualities.

(fixed)

This is issue just for you. I don't think many other player here in this forum, has same "issue" than you have. They may say that RPG features was too simple, but I don't think many of them go so far and say ME2 has no RPG at all. This is because you have very narrow way looking RPG and role-playing.

http://en.wikipedia....le-playing_game

  It appears ME3 will be much more in line with an RPG,  still lacking in the noncombat dept though.

All ME series games has been lacking in non-combat dept. I agree, too bad it could be fun.

There's 70 pages to this thread,  I think it's safe to say I'm not alone.  Head on over to RPGCodex,  post your claims,  see what happens.  Or 4chan's /v/.  Or even the D&D boards.  I'll warn you ahead of time,  none of those places will be nearly as polite as I am.

There's no RPG mechanics.  Sitting in front of your TV/Keyboard pretending you're in a Role when the game takes no notice of it doesn't make it an RPG.  I can pretend the Master Sergant is handing out flowers to all the misunderstood children of another world,  but since all the game supports is shooting them,  the Role I chose for my master segant doesn't exist.

Same with ME2,  and likely ME3,  I can pretend I'm the paragon of justice,  but since the game doesn't note outright murder,  it's all in my head.  Since it's all in my head,  there cannot be a Role.

I'm sorry,  but without stats to define your character,  you're just pretending at your screen,  you don't have a Role because the game fails to recognize one,  because the game doesn't permit you to define one.

Edit:

You might even want to read your own links,  especially the bottom section of it.  Kind of tanks your arguement,  since ME2 completely ignores consequence secondary to moral choices...

Sitting in front of your TV/computer fiddling with a bunch of stats and loot pretending to role play a paladin running mail quests doesn't change the fact you're sitting there, playing a g-ddamn video game.  I don't see how having stats makes the experience any more "real."  The game doesn't note outright murder?  If you play a full paragon and decide to shove the merc off the building in Thane's RM, you're just trying to "break" the game.  If you consider yourself such a deep "role-player," then that's your fault for breaking the role of your Shepard.  If you're Shepard in that situation, h/she's not thinking "Let me kill this merc to see if people react."  You've already broken the fourth wall of the game in testing the system.

Oh, but of course, if we had stats, that changes EVERYTHING.  Because, "without stats, you're just staring at the screen."  And with stats, you're....doing the exact same thing.  Give me a break.  If you don't like the system of the game, don't play it.  ME was never billed as a stat based RPG.  Don't pretend ME1 was this glorious example of an old school, Fallout-style RPG.  

[Lumikki]

Gatt9 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

The problem is,  the game claims to be an ACTION RPG,  but ME2 possessed none of the qualities.

(fixed)

This is issue just for you. I don't think many other player here in this forum, has same "issue" than you have. They may say that RPG features was too simple, but I don't think many of them go so far and say ME2 has no RPG at all. This is because you have very narrow way looking RPG and role-playing.

http://en.wikipedia....le-playing_game

  It appears ME3 will be much more in line with an RPG,  still lacking in the noncombat dept though.

All ME series games has been lacking in non-combat dept. I agree, too bad it could be fun.

There's 70 pages to this thread,  I think it's safe to say I'm not alone.  Head on over to RPGCodex,  post your claims,  see what happens.  Or 4chan's /v/.  Or even the D&D boards.  I'll warn you ahead of time,  none of those places will be nearly as polite as I am.

There's no RPG mechanics.  Sitting in front of your TV/Keyboard pretending you're in a Role when the game takes no notice of it doesn't make it an RPG.  I can pretend the Master Sergant is handing out flowers to all the misunderstood children of another world,  but since all the game supports is shooting them,  the Role I chose for my master segant doesn't exist.

Same with ME2,  and likely ME3,  I can pretend I'm the paragon of justice,  but since the game doesn't note outright murder,  it's all in my head.  Since it's all in my head,  there cannot be a Role.

I'm sorry,  but without stats to define your character,  you're just pretending at your screen,  you don't have a Role because the game fails to recognize one,  because the game doesn't permit you to define one.

Edit:

You might even want to read your own links,  especially the bottom section of it.  Kind of tanks your arguement,  since ME2 completely ignores consequence secondary to moral choices...

I'm not gonna argue with you because you have right to have your own opinion. I just disagree with you in big time.

You can repeat you opinion as much you want, I'm pretty sure Biowares developers will never agree with you.

Thank God for that.

Modifié par Lumikki, 11 juillet 2011 - 12:16 .

[slimgrin]

Casey Hudsen: "forget about the lootz and the statz and all the fiddly bitz."

Players: "But will there be planet scanning?"

Hudsen: "You bet boyz and girlz!"

Players: "..."

[Damariel]

slimgrin wrote...

Casey Hudsen: "forget about the lootz and the statz and all the fiddly bitz."

Players: "But will there be planet scanning?"

Hudsen: "You bet boyz and girlz!"

Players: "..."

Add me to "Players" .... and about main topic.... bad idea.

[XavierHollywood]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Sitting in front of your TV/computer
fiddling with a bunch of stats and loot pretending to role play a
paladin running mail quests doesn't change the fact you're sitting
there, playing a g-ddamn video game.  I don't see how having stats makes
the experience any more "real."  The game doesn't note outright murder?
 If you play a full paragon and decide to shove the merc off the
building in Thane's RM, you're just trying to "break" the game.  If you
consider yourself such a deep "role-player," then that's your fault for
breaking the role of your Shepard.  If you're Shepard in that situation,
h/she's not thinking "Let me kill this merc to see if people react."
 You've already broken the fourth wall of the game in testing the
system.

Oh, but of course, if we had stats, that changes
EVERYTHING.  Because, "without stats, you're just staring at the
screen."  And with stats, you're....doing the exact same thing.  Give me
a break.  If you don't like the system of the game, don't play it.  ME
was never billed as a stat based RPG.  Don't pretend ME1 was this
glorious example of an old school, Fallout-style RPG.  

Well said Sp0ck...well said

Modifié par XavierHollywood, 11 juillet 2011 - 12:30 .

[slimgrin]

So here again we have people on the BSN, loyal Bioware fans, RAAAAAGIING against stats like a pack of rabid Hyenas, and yet Bioware uses stats in their games.

I are confused.

[Beerfish]

"There's 70 pages to this thread,  I think it's safe to say I'm not alone.  Head on over to RPGCodex,  post your claims,  see what happens"

Ha ha ha,,.go over to the rpgcodex?  95% of the posts on those boards are people following each other around like sheep round and round, patting each other on the back and each one trying to re-up the the next with the next attempted witty put down. 

[Bnol]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

There's 70 pages to this thread,  I think it's safe to say I'm not alone.  Head on over to RPGCodex,  post your claims,  see what happens.  Or 4chan's /v/.  Or even the D&D boards.  I'll warn you ahead of time,  none of those places will be nearly as polite as I am.

There's no RPG mechanics.  Sitting in front of your TV/Keyboard pretending you're in a Role when the game takes no notice of it doesn't make it an RPG.  I can pretend the Master Sergant is handing out flowers to all the misunderstood children of another world,  but since all the game supports is shooting them,  the Role I chose for my master segant doesn't exist.

Same with ME2,  and likely ME3,  I can pretend I'm the paragon of justice,  but since the game doesn't note outright murder,  it's all in my head.  Since it's all in my head,  there cannot be a Role.

I'm sorry,  but without stats to define your character,  you're just pretending at your screen,  you don't have a Role because the game fails to recognize one,  because the game doesn't permit you to define one.

Edit:

You might even want to read your own links,  especially the bottom section of it.  Kind of tanks your arguement,  since ME2 completely ignores consequence secondary to moral choices...

Sitting in front of your TV/computer fiddling with a bunch of stats and loot pretending to role play a paladin running mail quests doesn't change the fact you're sitting there, playing a g-ddamn video game.  I don't see how having stats makes the experience any more "real."  The game doesn't note outright murder?  If you play a full paragon and decide to shove the merc off the building in Thane's RM, you're just trying to "break" the game.  If you consider yourself such a deep "role-player," then that's your fault for breaking the role of your Shepard.  If you're Shepard in that situation, h/she's not thinking "Let me kill this merc to see if people react."  You've already broken the fourth wall of the game in testing the system.

Oh, but of course, if we had stats, that changes EVERYTHING.  Because, "without stats, you're just staring at the screen."  And with stats, you're....doing the exact same thing.  Give me a break.  If you don't like the system of the game, don't play it.  ME was never billed as a stat based RPG.  Don't pretend ME1 was this glorious example of an old school, Fallout-style RPG.  

Well said sp0ck.  Seriously tired about hearing about that the game isn't an RPG because it didn't respond to me being out of character for every single aciton I do even when I chose to do it and had the option to avoid it altogether, in particular the pushing out of building example Gatt9 posts almost every other post.  Further, that example isn't necessarily out of role for certain Paragon shepards if they take the Asari Justicar view of punishing the wicked by death.  Play a PnP if you want that level of responsiveness to out of role actions.  Video games will always have limits based on the realities of development time/resources.

[littlezack]

slimgrin wrote...

So here again we have people on the BSN, loyal Bioware fans, RAAAAAGIING against stats like a pack of rabid Hyenas, and yet Bioware uses stats in their games.

I are confused.

It's not a question of having or not having stats in the game, it's about how important the stats are and how much focus should be placed on them.

[Bnol]

slimgrin wrote...

So here again we have people on the BSN, loyal Bioware fans, RAAAAAGIING against stats like a pack of rabid Hyenas, and yet Bioware uses stats in their games.

I are confused.

The discussion is mainly about the threshold of an RPG in terms of RPG mechanics and how it relates to ME3 and the ME franchise's identity.  For some, stats are king and anything that isn't stat based isn't RPG, and there must also be non-combat stats for it to be an RPG as well or you couldn't possibly play a role.  For some there needs to be a minimum amount of stat based customization for it to be a RPG.  For others, RPG is fine in terms of the story and taking on the role of the character in making choices and dealing with the consequences of the choices, and the stats are really secondary.  Others just don't care what ME3 is classified as, but either like or dislike the direction the devs are taking the game and post in the massive thread about it.

[slimgrin]

littlezack wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

So here again we have people on the BSN, loyal Bioware fans, RAAAAAGIING against stats like a pack of rabid Hyenas, and yet Bioware uses stats in their games.

I are confused.

It's not a question of having or not having stats in the game, it's about how important the stats are and how much focus should be placed on them.

So ME1 and ME2 or Dragon Age, all these games placed too much emphasis on stats? I didn't think so.  I'm just wondering where all the stat hate comes from, or why people think ME3 is suddenly going to become an MMO. As Marshalleck explained in an earlier post, computers have no other way of thinking. 

And everyone touting story reactivity in Mass Effect makes me chuckle, because ME2 was anything but a reactive story with complex moral dilemmas. The plot was cheesy and predicatble, the weakest I've seen in a Bioware game. It made me think a grand total of one time: the Geth dilemma. Everything else was blue or red. ( or black and white, actually )

Modifié par slimgrin, 11 juillet 2011 - 01:05 .

[Lumikki]

Like others allready sayed, this isn't about does game has stats, of course every RP like game has stats. This is about what every player consider as role-playing and RPG. It seems that for some stats are everyting and they can't role-play without them, while others can also act the role when stats are missing and UI allows acting. Like example shooting weapon through stats or player skill.

It's not stat hate, it's just stat aren't everyting in role-playing games, they are tools to help player role-play. If game focus too much on numbers, it change focus of the game. You have to consider also what kind of game we talk and how much stats it needs. It's question does more stats and loot make ME serie better.

Modifié par Lumikki, 11 juillet 2011 - 01:17 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

slimgrin wrote...

So here again we have people on the BSN, loyal Bioware fans, RAAAAAGIING against stats like a pack of rabid Hyenas, and yet Bioware uses stats in their games.

I are confused.

Well, in fact, this thread was created because there was people raaaaaaaaaaging that there weren't stats and loots enough. They argue it's not enough and some say it is fine the way BW is doing. 70 pages of that.

[slimgrin]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

So here again we have people on the BSN, loyal Bioware fans, RAAAAAGIING against stats like a pack of rabid Hyenas, and yet Bioware uses stats in their games.

I are confused.

Well, in fact, this thread was created because there was people raaaaaaaaaaging that there weren't stats and loots enough. They argue it's not enough and some say it is fine the way BW is doing. 70 pages of that.

For the record, I think Bioware gets the stat element right, whether we see them or not. I really enjoy the combat in their games. Loot needs improvement, we'll see what they do with it.