3223 réponses à ce sujet

[SpiffySquee]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

First of all, you CAN beat Irenicus or Serovock at first level if you know how to play the system. I did an LP where I killed Irencus without taking any damage. I set up every trap I had while he was sucking the tree of life dry and they went off before he could raise defenses. One magic missile after that and "Poof" battle over. This could have been done at level 6 or seven if I wished as long as I have a few thieves in the party (that's what level you start he game at, so there is no reason to even talk about level one) 

Proof:


Skip to 9:45 to see what I was talking about.

Does this now mean leveling was redundant? No. It just means leveling make it easier. 
Secondly, if you say ME2 Hardcore was easy with no leveling, no upgrades (and no leveling squad mates) you are either a gaming savant or lying through your teeth. Can't say which, but until you post a video with the proof, I'm leaning towards the second one. Is it possible? Yeah. Is it simple and easy? No way in hell.

The guy in that video was way above level six. You can tell bald faced lies on somebody else’s time.

Sure I died a few times, but yeah; It can be done.

That guy was me and you should try reading the post before opening your mouth. I clearly stated that the same trick can be done at level 6. All you need is people who can set traps.

[Sarevok Synder]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Exactly, levelling wasn't required in ME2.

It wasn't required in ME1 either with that logic. 

You'll just be more effective as you level up.

No, because with the Mechanics of ME1, levelling was required to use weapons effectively. In ME2, if you're any good at shooters; it's not needed. I just wish people would drop the charade that levelling in ME2 made any real difference.

Take a level 1 infiltrator with the default sniper rifle, cloak if you can, and hit Harbinger in the head. Then do the same thing with a level 30 infiltrator and a widow. Gee.... your right... leveling made no difference what so ever... guess I should drop the charade....
Proving that it is possible to beat something without leveling does not make it pointless. Military training is not necessary to send someone into battle. Heck, they may even live, but that does not mean Military training is pointless.

Considering ME2 didn't have any weapon allocation slots at levelling, it would make no difference. BTW, I played soldier, no cloak. So I wouldn't notice any difference.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 14 juillet 2011 - 10:43 .

[Sarevok Synder]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

First of all, you CAN beat Irenicus or Serovock at first level if you know how to play the system. I did an LP where I killed Irencus without taking any damage. I set up every trap I had while he was sucking the tree of life dry and they went off before he could raise defenses. One magic missile after that and "Poof" battle over. This could have been done at level 6 or seven if I wished as long as I have a few thieves in the party (that's what level you start he game at, so there is no reason to even talk about level one) 

Proof:


Skip to 9:45 to see what I was talking about.

Does this now mean leveling was redundant? No. It just means leveling make it easier. 
Secondly, if you say ME2 Hardcore was easy with no leveling, no upgrades (and no leveling squad mates) you are either a gaming savant or lying through your teeth. Can't say which, but until you post a video with the proof, I'm leaning towards the second one. Is it possible? Yeah. Is it simple and easy? No way in hell.

The guy in that video was way above level six. You can tell bald faced lies on somebody else’s time.

Sure I died a few times, but yeah; It can be done.

That guy was me and you should try reading the post before opening your mouth. I clearly stated that the same trick can be done at level 6. All you need is people who can set traps.

Yeah, good luck getting that far at level six. It can be done sure. But it's a hell of a lot easier doing it in ME2.

[Massadonious1]

The game clearly intended for you to allocate skills to you and your squadmates. The fact that you can do it without means nothing.

Many people can solo at the highest difficulties in both Dragon Age games. That doesn't mean that the party system was broken or that your companions were useless.

[Sarevok Synder]

Massadonious1 wrote...

The game clearly intended for you to allocate skills to you and your squadmates. The fact that you can do it without means nothing.

Many people can solo at the highest difficulties in both Dragon Age games. That doesn't mean that the party system was broken or that your companions were useless.

My point is, levelling should have made a bigger difference than it did. Or just get rid of it altogether.

[Someone With Mass]

Massadonious1 wrote...

The game clearly intended for you to allocate skills to you and your squadmates. The fact that you can do it without means nothing.

Many people can solo at the highest difficulties in both Dragon Age games. That doesn't mean that the party system was broken or that your companions were useless.

Exactly. It's mearly there to make it easier as you level up. It's pretty much the point with any level system in any RPG ever.

[Sarevok Synder]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...
No, because with the Mechanics of ME1, levelling was required to use weapons effectively. In ME2, if you're any good at shooters; it's not needed. I just wish people would drop the charade that levelling in ME2 made any real difference.

And that's exactly what I think was so stupid in ME1. It clashed with Shepard's character so much, it wasn't even funny.

Like with Infiltrator. I had to resort to using my pistol until I had enough points to invest in the sniper rifles so Shepard could line up a shot without sway all the goddamn time. That's not fun nor does it serve any purpose whatsoever. It's just annoying.

And leveling up in ME2 can let you unlock new powers or improve the ones you already have. Just like in ME1, but without the weapon skills, as they come in from of upgrades you can buy at a store or find on missions.

Your opinion on whether it's better or not doesn't have any bearing on my original point.

[SpiffySquee]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

First of all, you CAN beat Irenicus or Serovock at first level if you know how to play the system. I did an LP where I killed Irencus without taking any damage. I set up every trap I had while he was sucking the tree of life dry and they went off before he could raise defenses. One magic missile after that and "Poof" battle over. This could have been done at level 6 or seven if I wished as long as I have a few thieves in the party (that's what level you start he game at, so there is no reason to even talk about level one) 

Proof:


Skip to 9:45 to see what I was talking about.

Does this now mean leveling was redundant? No. It just means leveling make it easier. 
Secondly, if you say ME2 Hardcore was easy with no leveling, no upgrades (and no leveling squad mates) you are either a gaming savant or lying through your teeth. Can't say which, but until you post a video with the proof, I'm leaning towards the second one. Is it possible? Yeah. Is it simple and easy? No way in hell.

The guy in that video was way above level six. You can tell bald faced lies on somebody else’s time.

Sure I died a few times, but yeah; It can be done.

That guy was me and you should try reading the post before opening your mouth. I clearly stated that the same trick can be done at level 6. All you need is people who can set traps.

Yeah, good luck getting that far at level six. It can be done sure. But it's a hell of a lot easier doing it in ME2.

You said it couldn't be done, I showed it could. You say it easy to beat ME2 on hardcore with no leveling or upgrades. I say prove it. If you beat every level without having to reload more than twice I will stand corrected, otherwise no one is going to believe you. Even if you could, it would simply mean that you are a fantastically skilled player. Everyone who is not so gifted, on the other hand, might find leveling and upgrades makes the game a lot more manageable.
I have no doubt that you can beat it at level one, I just don't believe that it is easy. 

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 14 juillet 2011 - 10:53 .

[Someone With Mass]

Whatever. I have never seen the point in restricting my character in that way, when it's clearly shown that he/she can use the weapons without any problems anywhere else.

[Sarevok Synder]

SpiffySquee wrote...


You said it couldn't be done, I showed it could. You say it easy to beat ME2 on hardcore with no leveling or upgrades. I say prove it. If you beat every level without having to reload more than twice I will stand corrected, otherwise no one is going to believe you. Even if you could, it would simply mean that you are a fantastically skilled player. For everyone who is not so gifted, on the other hand, might find leveling and upgrade make the game a lot more manageable.
I have no doubt that you can beat it at level one, I just don't believe that it is easy. 

You really think I'm going to do another run of this game just to prove myself to you? You really need to get a life as you seem to take this far too seriously. I don't consider myself "gifted" at all, it's a game. Beating it by any method is nothing to be proud of. Well you didn't show it could be done, but I'm not asking you to; as a level six run through of BG2 would probably take weeks.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 14 juillet 2011 - 11:28 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Whatever. I have never seen the point in restricting my character in that way, when it's clearly shown that he/she can use the weapons without any problems anywhere else.

Again, that wasn't my point.

[Someone With Mass]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Again, that wasn't my point.

Well, instead of pointing it out all the time so it gets nowhere, perhaps you can just tell me what it is, if I misinterpreted it?

[Sarevok Synder]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Again, that wasn't my point.

Well, instead of pointing it out all the time so it gets nowhere, perhaps you can just tell me what it is, if I misinterpreted it?

Read back over the posts.

[EternalPink]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Whatever. I have never seen the point in restricting my character in that way, when it's clearly shown that he/she can use the weapons without any problems anywhere else.

Again, that wasn't my point.

Umm what was your point?

Since other than i'm very good at shooters so can do ME2 at whatever level you start at (i've always imported so my chars start lvl 3/4) which you consider a flaw of twitch yet other peeps have mentioned how turn based point and click RPG's can similarly be completed at low level if you are willing to spend the time so other than most games can be completed at low level if you have the skills, tactics, way of bugging the AI which is a flaw of all computer games i'm missing it

[Someone With Mass]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Read back over the posts.

Okay. **** it.

I don't care.

It's apparently so hard to just flat out tell me. 

[Sarevok Synder]

EternalPink wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Whatever. I have never seen the point in restricting my character in that way, when it's clearly shown that he/she can use the weapons without any problems anywhere else.

Again, that wasn't my point.

Umm what was your point?

Since other than i'm very good at shooters so can do ME2 at whatever level you start at (i've always imported so my chars start lvl 3/4) which you consider a flaw of twitch yet other peeps have mentioned how turn based point and click RPG's can similarly be completed at low level if you are willing to spend the time so other than most games can be completed at low level if you have the skills, tactics, way of bugging the AI which is a flaw of all computer games i'm missing it

The point is, you would have to spam weaknesses in the game-play mechanics in these other games which would take ages. Or just level up, which wouldn't.

My point is simple, levelling up made little to no difference in ME2. No spamming of weaknesses either. I played soldier and it really didn't make any noticeable change.

[Sarevok Synder]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Read back over the posts.

Okay. **** it.

I don't care.

It's apparently so hard to just flat out tell me. 

Fair enough, I just don't see the need to constantly repeat myself.

[Someone With Mass]

And there's your problem. Soldier is the worst class when it comes to benefiting from level points. Unlike the Engineer, the Sentinel or the Vanguard.

Then again, with such an uninteresting class, it's not that surprising.

[EternalPink]

Okay so a non-evolved throw isn't as good as a evolved throw or any other power, ammo skills again get better, class specific abilities (power armour for instance) all get better so i'm sorry yes leveling up did make a difference.

Your actual point is that level up isn't necessary since as mentioned above it obviously did make a difference to all those powers i've mentioned

Modifié par EternalPink, 14 juillet 2011 - 11:19 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Someone With Mass wrote...

And there's your problem. Soldier is the worst class when it comes to benefiting from level points. Unlike the Engineer, the Sentinel or the Vanguard.

Then again, with such an uninteresting class, it's not that surprising.

Meh, I just liked having all the weapons.

[Sarevok Synder]

EternalPink wrote...

Okay so a non-evolved throw isn't as good as a evolved throw or any other power, ammo skills again get better, class specific abilities (power armour for instance) all get better so i'm sorry yes leveling up did make a difference.

Your actual point is that level up isn't necessary since as mentioned above it obviously did make a difference to all those powers i've mentioned

It was token, not necessary. And I said it made a slight difference, but in reality it was only there to make the game look less like a straight-up shooter.

[EternalPink]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

EternalPink wrote...

Okay so a non-evolved throw isn't as good as a evolved throw or any other power, ammo skills again get better, class specific abilities (power armour for instance) all get better so i'm sorry yes leveling up did make a difference.

Your actual point is that level up isn't necessary since as mentioned above it obviously did make a difference to all those powers i've mentioned

It was token, not necessary. And I said it made a slight difference, but in reality it was only there to make the game look less like a straight-up shooter.

Sorry but i think this is subjective, i did notice the difference between powers that had leveled and those that hadn't, especially when i first tried on insanity with a fresh playthrough rather than a NG+ but how much would the powers have to have changed for you to feel it was necessary? since the game by it being a computer game itself is always going to be completable with players handicapping themselves.

If we go back to BG2 that lich that imprisioned you and you needed like +4 weapons to hit was meant to be a hard fight, and for the first time it most likely was, but as soon as you went to a scroll vendor and read what protection against undead did and then tried that fight with each character affected by one of those it became pathetically easy.

All fear the mighty lich that edwin is staffing to death since he's the only character with a +4 weapon.

Was that a fault with the rule set? with the way the rule set had been implement? or just a fault of a computer game in general?

[Sarevok Synder]

EternalPink wrote...

Sorry but i think this is subjective, i did notice the difference between powers that had leveled and those that hadn't, especially when i first tried on insanity with a fresh playthrough rather than a NG+ but how much would the powers have to have changed for you to feel it was necessary? since the game by it being a computer game itself is always going to be completable with players handicapping themselves.

If we go back to BG2 that lich that imprisioned you and you needed like +4 weapons to hit was meant to be a hard fight, and for the first time it most likely was, but as soon as you went to a scroll vendor and read what protection against undead did and then tried that fight with each character affected by one of those it became pathetically easy.

All fear the mighty lich that edwin is staffing to death since he's the only character with a +4 weapon.

Was that a fault with the rule set? with the way the rule set had been implement? or just a fault of a computer game in general?

No, being able to get the scroll (protection from magic, not undead) and buying the sword (which took a bit of doing as it's expensive) is called role playing. All I needed to do in ME2 was shoot everything in the face. 

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 14 juillet 2011 - 11:39 .

[Comsky159]

I think ME2 struck the perfect balance between narrativity and agency. The actual combat gameplay isn't particularly important to me, as long as it's enjoyable and gives me a sense of achievement.

[EternalPink]

protection from undead worked since the lich was unable to target you and was easily available (magic worked but as you said there was only like 4 of those in the game) and there were two items that were available early, the +4 staff from a vendor and that +5 sling (from the vendor that was in icewind dale)