3223 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

tonnactus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...


I agree that there was no choice. But should we have those choices?

Yes. Especially because shepardt worked for cerberus...

Huh? Are you seriously saying that Cerberus should have already found examples of these techs already? If so, why wouldn't they have researched all of them before the game even starts? It can't be lack of minerals -- Cerberus has other ships.

Or did you just decide to reply to this line before reading the rest of the post?

[Someone With Mass]

Phaedon wrote...
4 in total? That's 4 times the choice you had in ME1.

No weapons in ME1 are equal, every new weapon is clearly and statistically superior or inferior to the one you are equipped with.

And they all play, look and sound the same.

Especially if you equip High Explosive Rounds.

[AlanC9]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Price is not the issue. Charging extra for what should have been there from the beginning is. Yes, that's exactly what "EA" did. You call me an idiot, yet you keep coming crawling back to me every time I move on from you, so what does that make you?

Of course, "should have" is doing all the work in this "argument."

[Sarevok Synder]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Oh yes, lets pay more for weapons which should have been there in the first. Then have them just appear in a weapons locker after you buy this DLC rather than even have to purchase them from a store in game, or better yet find; them in a mission. EA just love drones like you.

Ah, yes. EA. The domineering publisher and distributor allegedly preventing hard working developers from doing their jobs right. I think they have grown out of that phase...




Seriously, I dunno how EA is relevant here.

EA, control DLC. They are owner and publisher.

AlanC9 wrote....

Of course, "should have" is doing all the work in this "argument."

What's your point?

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 14 juillet 2011 - 08:18 .

[Phaedon]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Price is not the issue. Charging extra for what should have been there from the beginning is. Yes, that's exactly what "EA" did. You call me an idiot, yet you keep coming crawling back to me every time I move on from you, so what does that make you?

Why should they have been in-game?

Have you ever watched the E3 demo for ME1? Should all of these resources have been in-game? And don't pull the "but they didn't make us pay for them!" card. You were never made to do anything. You have a choice to buy or not buy all products, standalone games or DLC, based on their quality and price.

If you are dissatisfied with either, then don't buy them. But don't act as if you have some sort of entitlement over developer resources.

[Sarevok Synder]

Phaedon wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...
I'm more of an assault rifle man myself. I think that left me with a choice of four total.  Look; if you prefer this system that's your business. This endless back and forth about who's opinion is "right" is pointless. 

4 in total? That's 4 times the choice you had in ME1.

No weapons in ME1 are equal, every new weapon is clearly and statistically superior or inferior to the one you are equipped with.

And they all play, look and sound the same.

Why do you keep bringing up ME1. Where have I said it was the best game ever?

[Someone With Mass]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Price is not the issue. Charging extra for what should have been there from the beginning is. Yes, that's exactly what "EA" did. You call me an idiot, yet you keep coming crawling back to me every time I move on from you, so what does that make you?

Because...there's nothing like development time, feedback, deadlines or a budget, right?

And compared to ME1's DLC, I don't care if I have to pay, because DLC like Lair of the Shadow Broker was money well spent.

And you're the one making idiotic statements to begin with, not me. 

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 14 juillet 2011 - 07:06 .

[tonnactus]

Phaedon wrote...

Exactly? You have to plan your inventory before going to a mission? However, there are several advantages to not using sniper rifles for semi-long range sniping. The fact that you have to zoom. Not very practical at several occassions.

???

And of course the rate of fire, when it comes to pistols. And the damage caused, 

If its possible to kill the thresher maw just with pistol fire(even with the starter pistol),the damage done is high enough.

[Phaedon]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Why do you keep bringing up ME1. Where have I said it was the best game ever?

Do I need to remind you that it was the "ME1 gave the illusion of choice" argument which started this debate?

[Sarevok Synder]

Phaedon wrote...

Have you ever watched the E3 demo for ME1? Should all of these resources have been in-game? And don't pull the "but they didn't make us pay for them!" card. You were never made to do anything. You have a choice to buy or not buy all products, standalone games or DLC, based on their quality and price.

If you are dissatisfied with either, then don't buy them. But don't act as if you have some sort of entitlement over developer resources.

Don't worry your little head over it. I didn't buy the weapons packs or alternate appearance packs. Again, why do you keep bringing up ME1?

[tonnactus]

Someone With Mass wrote...


Because...there's nothing like development time, deadlines or a budget, right?

You must be kidding. Something like the "weapon packs" could be made by a couple of modders for free in some days at best.

Modifié par tonnactus, 14 juillet 2011 - 07:07 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Phaedon wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Why do you keep bringing up ME1. Where have I said it was the best game ever?

Do I need to remind you that it was the "ME1 gave the illusion of choice" argument which started this debate?

I didn't say ME1 created the illusion of choice. I said I was looking for at least the illusion of choice. I didn't mention ME1 having it.

[littlezack]

 What's the point of an illusion if you know it's an illusion? It's like when my friend asked my about my car's clock being four minutes fast. He said that it would help me get to work on time, but it doesn't really - I know it's four minutes fast. 

Modifié par littlezack, 14 juillet 2011 - 07:10 .

[Phaedon]

tonnactus wrote...
???

I think that my paragraph was pretty clear. What did you not understand?

If its possible to kill the thresher maw just with pistol fire(even with the starter pistol),the damage done is high enough.

Not valid.

That's the equivallent of using a starting weapon that does 1 dps to a creature that has 100 hp. You can run, do the 1 dps, run again, do your damage etc. 

Anything that causes damage can be "enough", by that logic.

Think about it, that applies to the entire weapons industry today.

[Sarevok Synder]

Someone With Mass wrote...


Because...there's nothing like development time, feedback, deadlines or a budget, right?

And compared to ME1's DLC, I don't care if I have to pay, because DLC like Lair of the Shadow Broker was money well spent.

And you're the one making idiotic statements to begin with, not me. 

A weapons pack wouldn't take long to produce get real. Again, if I'm such an idiot, why do you keep crawling back to me?

[Phaedon]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Don't worry your little head over it. I didn't buy the weapons packs or alternate appearance packs. Again, why do you keep bringing up ME1?

I did not bring up ME1 as comparison. I love ME1.
It's just that it's definitely something that you have seen and I can use as an example. 

Again, you own what you have buy, not what the developer does during their development time.

[Sarevok Synder]

littlezack wrote...

 What's the point of an illusion if you know it's an illusion? It's like when my friend asked my about my car's clock being four minutes fast. He said that it would help me get to work on time, but it doesn't really - I know it's four minutes fast. 

It's better than the "upgrade" system.

[Bnol]

AlanC9 wrote...

Bnol wrote...

What was bad about it was that it was linear and did not give any choice in terms of what you were going to research.  The only choice that you made was what upgrades at the stores you bought.

I agree that there was no choice. But should we have those choices? I never thought so. 

It's not so much "research " as it is reverse engineering an existing bit of tech to integrate it into our existing equipment. Obviously we can't reverse engineer tech that we haven't actually encountered yet.

Actually, I wanted even less choice in ME2, since buying tech in shops is intensely silly.

I would have liked a choice as to what order you researched the special upgrades (e.g. head shot damage).  Because for an assault rifle if I am using the Revenant, the extra penetration is not as important than the accuracy, but I can't rearch that as soon, but for the Vindicator the accuracy was unneccessary.  I don't see a point, outside of tedium to have the research aspect if all it will do is just increase damage by x%, if all it is doing is that then the guns should just increase in damage as you level/as soon as you scan and avoid the whole mining mini-game.

Buying the tech was a way to limit the aquisition of all of the advances and have you choose the ones that were most important to you.  It was the only place where you had a choice to prioritize your advancement in terms of weapons.  I am not going to argue gameplay versus story, because we could be here forever with both games.

[Phaedon]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
A weapons pack wouldn't take long to produce get real. Again, if I'm such an idiot, why do you keep crawling back to me?

Design Gameplay Concept/Concept Art
Models
Textures
Statistics
Sound
Coding
QA and balance
Ensuring it causes no clipping during animations

That requires several professionals, and it would definitely take some time, unless that's the only project they are working on.

Modifié par Phaedon, 14 juillet 2011 - 07:14 .

[tonnactus]

Phaedon wrote...

I think that my paragraph was pretty clear. What did you not understand?

What are examples where zooming isnt recommended?

If its possible to kill the thresher maw just with pistol fire(even with the starter pistol),the damage done is high enough.[

That's the equivallent of using a starting weapon that does 1 dps to a creature that has 100 hp. You can run, do the 1 dps, run again, do your damage etc. 

But this fight has a time limit....
So the example is valid enough.

Modifié par tonnactus, 14 juillet 2011 - 07:14 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Phaedon wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Don't worry your little head over it. I didn't buy the weapons packs or alternate appearance packs. Again, why do you keep bringing up ME1?

I did not bring up ME1 as comparison. I love ME1.
It's just that it's definitely something that you have seen and I can use as an example. 

Again, you own what you have buy, not what the developer does during their development time.

I wanted an improvment from ME1, I didn't say it was the be all and end all.
 
Oh I agree, if don't like what I'm seeing come near release time, I won't be buying. 

So, can we draw a line under this? 

[tonnactus]

littlezack wrote...

 What's the point of an illusion if you know it's an illusion?

Whats the point of making games like Oblivion "open word" when the illusion ends as soon as the player reaches a border and the game tell you that you cant advance to this point...

[Sarevok Synder]

Phaedon wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...
A weapons pack wouldn't take long to produce get real. Again, if I'm such an idiot, why do you keep crawling back to me?

Design Gameplay Concept/Concept Art
Models
Textures
Statistics
Sound
Coding
QA and balance
Ensuring it causes no clipping during animations

That requires several professionals, and it would definitely take some time, unless that's the only project they are working on.

Well you see, pre-built engines like Unreal 3 make that quite easy. Download the unreal development kit and see for yourself.

[Someone With Mass]

Phaedon wrote...

Design Gameplay Concept/Concept Art
Models
Textures
Statistics
Sound
Coding
QA and balance
Ensuring it causes no clipping during animations

That requires several professionals, and it would definitely take some time, unless that's the only project they are working on.

And they were working on LotSB at the same time.

Besides, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it. All the DLCs are completely optional.

[Praetor Knight]

^ And to add, I was under the impression that work began on ME3 once ME2 released.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 14 juillet 2011 - 07:21 .