3223 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarevok Synder]

didymos1120 wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Okay, so where is your proof it takes seven BW staff to produce one weapon for DLC? And if it does, something serious needs to be done if one man can do so much more without a massive company like EA backing him.

I don't know how many it took exactly.  I do know it's extremely likely to have taken multiple people though, because that's how professional game development works nowadays.  The days of "one coder, one game" are long gone except in the indie realm, and even then it's still often done by a team.

I don't know either. But I highly doubt it takes seven of them, or that it takes them very long to do it.

[Sarevok Synder]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...
He produced many of them. Version 10 took him about five months.

Version 10, yes. How many different things does it have compared to version 9, or whatever the previous version might be?

Is he doing a complete overhaul of the game for each version?

Look at the changes yourself. He has them logged.

[InvaderErl]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Yet one man can overhaul an entire game plus add-ons in a matter of months. You're full of it.

Um, no. Not months.  Years:

Development of the Cinematic Mod has taken 5 years of my life, a vast amount of coffee and 18000+ dollars for software and resources.

He produced many of them. Version 10 took him about five months.

Presumably Version 10 was built on the back of Version 9 and the version before that and the version before that. Considering that the author himself considers the cumulative project to have consumed 5 years of his life you can hardly try and pass of the final version as its own project and ignore the road to that point.

[RedCaesar97]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

And? ME2 had one or two models more, but a lot less in actual game play differences. Massive improvement!

Actually, ME2 had at least twice as many, and all of them play diffrently if you pay attention.

No, it has four rifles with differing stats. ME1 has many more.

Except each gun in ME1 played exactly the same:
 Each assault rifle (except perhaps the Geth pulse rifle) fired exactly the same as the other assault rilfes.
 Each sniper rifle fired exactly the same as the other sniper rifles.
 Each pistol fired exactly the same as the other pistols.
 Each shotgun fired exactly the same as the other shotguns.
Accuracy only mattered early in the game. Late game it was all about damage. 

In ME2, each gun fires differently (except the Mantis and Widow sniper rifles) and promotes a different playstyle with each weapon.

In ME1, the only mods that could make your weapon fire differently were Snowblind rounds (decreased the rate of fire), High Explosive Rounds (overheated most weapons instantly), and Frictionless materials (fire your gun forever).

[Sarevok Synder]

Mesina2 wrote...

Snip

He has a record of the changes. Take a look and judge for yourself if you think it would take seven BW staff to produce one weapon.

[Sarevok Synder]

InvaderErl wrote...

This has been answered three times already.

[Sarevok Synder]

Phaedon wrote...

Snip

A lot more compelling than your bald assertions it takes seven of them to produce one weapon.

[Someone With Mass]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Two of those weapons aren't available on the standard version.

My point still stands. The weapons in ME1 had no characteristics whatsoever. It was just a copy & paste job about ten times and a slight change in the accuracy, shots before overheat and damage. 

The weapons in ME2 had to be designed with a right amount of ammo, variating starting accuracy, different damage boosters for different protections, different sounds, different sprites for the muzzle flashes and different models.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 14 juillet 2011 - 09:18 .

[CroGamer002]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Snip

He has a record of the changes. Take a look and judge for yourself if you think it would take seven BW staff to produce one weapon.

Still, he is not doing this mod from scratch for every version.

[Sarevok Synder]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

This is going in circles, and has been addressed already.

[Phaedon]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
I don't know either. But I highly doubt it takes seven of them, or that it takes them very long to do it.

Doubt all you want.

Games are bigger and more expensive nowadays, and that's a fact, though there are many who try to claim that older games were bigger. They certainly didn't have as many attachements.

An entire game needs to be done in 2.5 years, with limited budget, and quality that must ensure commercial success. You can't just say "Hey, John, you will develop that chunk of the game, and Anna, you will develop this one".

Everyone has a specific talent and job description and must work on several assignments at once, and yet still manage to get them out before the deadline. 

This development process is more efficient. And it still takes effort to do stuff. 

Creating a weapon pack is not just changing some stats or some textures. It's creating everything from scratch. And what's even worse is that everything is expected to be of excellent quality and balance.

Modifié par Phaedon, 14 juillet 2011 - 09:17 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Two of those weapons aren't available on the standard version.

My point still stands. The weapons in ME1 had no characteristics whatsoever. It was just a copy & paste job about ten times and a slight change in the accuracy, shots before overheat and damage. 

The weapons in ME2 had to be designed with a right amount of ammo, variating starting accuracy, different sounds, different sprites for the muzzle flashes and different models.

Again, I never said ME1 was perfect. The rest is just your opinion.

[Sarevok Synder]

Phaedon wrote...

Oh I do doubt you, don't worry.

[InvaderErl]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

This has been answered three times already.

It looks like he did a lot of tweaking and changes to existing systems and art assets. Impressive dedication but not impossible for a person to do over the span of five months with a system he's been working on for multiple years prior.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 14 juillet 2011 - 09:20 .

[Phaedon]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
The rest is just your opinion.

No, it's not. These stats do exist. Just check your coalesced.ini file.

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Oh I do doubt you, don't worry.

Excellent comeback. Most constructive post in this thread yet.

All you have been doing during the past few hours is find some flaw in semantics to catch yourself from, and to start complaining about ME2.

It started with the inventory, it went on to weapons, and then to designing weapon packs and the philosophy behind DLC. 

Not exactly constructive criticism, by the way. If you don't have anything to add, then don't try. You don't even have to admit you were wrong with some of your opinions.

Modifié par Phaedon, 14 juillet 2011 - 09:25 .

[didymos1120]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

He produced many of them. Version 10 took him about five months.

And so?  That's like saying "It's only took a few months for the latest incremental version of the Linux kernel to be released", as if that somehow makes the ~20 years of continuous development not count.  What, do you think the guy redoes every single thing from scratch with each new version? A cursory glance at the Changelog makes it abundantly clear that this is in fact not the case.

Also, you might notice that he in fact does use resources created by others.  Check the credits sections of the release notes.

[Someone With Mass]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
Again, I never said ME1 was perfect. The rest is just your opinion.

No, it's a fact, because anyone with a brain can make that judgement. There's no difference in the sounds between each rifle, they have the exact same two models with different skins (two of them even look the same) there's absolutely no difference in the muzzle flashes and there's no difference between the unfolding animations.

I can go on all day about how each rifle in ME1 is basically a sloppy copy of the two same rifles, but that's beside the point.

[Mister Mida]

Phaedon wrote...

Creating a weapon pack is not just changing some stats or some textures. It's creating everything from scratch.

Yeah, I'm gonna cut in here. As a programmer myself, I can tell you that no programmer will start from scratch for a job that's been done before unless prior work is outdated and/or of bad quality, which shouldn't be the case here. If they have common sense, the programmer(s) handling this will use the code that's been written for the other weapons.

[Phaedon]

Mister Mida wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Creating a weapon pack is not just changing some stats or some textures. It's creating everything from scratch.

Yeah, I'm gonna cut in here. As a programmer myself, I can tell you that no programmer will start from scratch for a job that's been done before unless prior work is outdated and/or of bad quality, which shouldn't be the case here. If they have common sense, the programmer(s) handling this will use the code that's been written for the other weapons.

I was refering to models, concept and art. 

You are right about the programing, though that still requires extensive alteration at times. 

[Sarevok Synder]

InvaderErl wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

This has been answered three times already.

It looks like he did a lot of tweaking and changes to existing systems and art assets. Impressive dedication but not impossible for a person to do over the span of five months with a system he's been working on for multiple years prior.

Yeah but he made huge changes for version 10 over about five months. Just one guy.

Someone With Mass wrote...

No, it's a fact, because anyone with a brain can make that judgement. There's no difference in the sounds between each rifle, they have the exact same two models with different skins (two of them even look the same) there's absolutely no difference in the muzzle flashes and there's no difference between the unfolding animations.

I can go on all day about how each rifle in ME1 is basically a sloppy copy of the two same rifles, but that's beside the point.

Yeah, and instead of making an effort to keep the stat variety of ME1 and then giving us many different weapons with physical changes as well; MGS 4 style. BW took the lazy route and gave us less of everything. 
 

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 14 juillet 2011 - 11:38 .

[Sarevok Synder]

didymos1120 wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

He produced many of them. Version 10 took him about five months.

And so?  That's like saying "It's only took a few months for the latest incremental version of the Linux kernel to be released", as if that somehow makes the ~20 years of continuous development not count.  What, do you think the guy redoes every single thing from scratch with each new version? A cursory glance at the Changelog makes it abundantly clear that this is in fact not the case.

Also, you might notice that he in fact does use resources created by others.  Check the credits sections of the release notes.

I know, but we're talking about the claim it takes seven to produce one bloody weapon!

[Sarevok Synder]

Phaedon wrote...

Why should I need a comeback? You've got nothing to back up your claim.

[Phaedon]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
I know, but we're talking about the claim it takes seven to produce one bloody weapon!

Stop acting as if all these seven do is develop this weapon.

It's one of the multiple projects they are working on daily. Every week one will be finished, and another will replace it.

[CroGamer002]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

This has been answered three times already.

It looks like he did a lot of tweaking and changes to existing systems and art assets. Impressive dedication but not impossible for a person to do over the span of five months with a system he's been working on for multiple years prior.

Yeah but he made huge changes for version 10 over about five months. Just one guy.

Key word, changes.

C H A N G E S

Not creating something new from scratch.

[Sarevok Synder]

Mister Mida wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Creating a weapon pack is not just changing some stats or some textures. It's creating everything from scratch.

Yeah, I'm gonna cut in here. As a programmer myself, I can tell you that no programmer will start from scratch for a job that's been done before unless prior work is outdated and/or of bad quality, which shouldn't be the case here. If they have common sense, the programmer(s) handling this will use the code that's been written for the other weapons.

Would it take seven of you to produce one weapon? I doubt it does anyway, am I wrong?