97 réponses à ce sujet

[Cutlass Jack]

Yes they have made one title that extremely disappointed us. We must now permanently brand them as being unable to learn from their mistakes. Hold them still while I heat up the branding iron.

...Or we can just admit that if we really felt that were true we wouldn't be hanging out full time on their forums? Nah that's crazy talk.

[amcnow]

I'll reserve judgment until ME3 actually comes out.

[Gunderic]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Yes they have made one title that extremely disappointed us. We must now permanently brand them as being unable to learn from their mistakes. Hold them still while I heat up the branding iron.

...Or we can just admit that if we really felt that were true we wouldn't be hanging out full time on their forums? Nah that's crazy talk.

It was more than one title for me. Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2, the DLC debacle that seems to plague the Dragon Age franchise, the way both Dragon Age titles were marketed and the developer responses following the sequel's release -- it's been a mess lately.

[Cutlass Jack]

Gunderic wrote...

It was more than one title for me. Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2, the DLC debacle that seems to plague the Dragon Age franchise, the way both Dragon Age titles were marketed and the developer responses following the sequel's release -- it's been a mess lately.

Fair enough. I thought ME2 was spectacular, but I respect your opinion. But if  you've given up on them, why are you here?

[Rahmiel]

Man, why did everyone hate DA2 so much? I liked it, loved it? Not.. really. I also do not see it as a bad thing that they reused areas. I mean, the whole story takes place in and around the same city. Now, could they have made some new places to visit, or scout out into? Sure. But all in all, I didn't mind revisiting the same locations. It would have been better, if those locations changed year to year, slightly. More than just wagons blocking caves you used to be able to enter.

That said, I doubt Bioware would make the salarian homeworld, or Earth or any other location out of the same resources. People need to just relax.

I really enjoyed the main story to DA2, and how it evolved throughout the years. Like I said, I really liked DA2, but I didn't love it as much as the first. It's a solid game though. The engine needs to be better though. That was basically my biggest gripe, how poorly the whole DA universe looks simply because of the engine.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Brockololly wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

BioWare never learns. They do think that removing is improving things. We have seen in it in ME2 and now in DA2.

Bingo.

BioWare doesn't seem to be able to fix or improve features from sequel to sequel. Rather they'll just strip them out entirely and then act surprised when people are pissed off.

Some of the features they removed from DAO deserved to be flushed.  They had long since begun to stink.

BioWare is smart enough to be very choosey with elements from ME1 that they add back into ME2, so I'm confident that ME3 will be the best of the bunch and much more like ME2 than ME1.

[kregano]

Bostur wrote...

“We got a lot of feedback from fans that [the customization options] were too cumbersome, so we totally removed them for Mass Effect 2,”

This decision always baffles me. The inventory interface in ME1 was cumbersome because it wasn't designed as well as it should be, considering the large number of items. Not because inventory management needs to be cumbersome. Lots of games manage this without simplifications. Look at DA:O it can handle literally hundreds of herbs in the inventory. ;-)

ME1 could have been patched to make the inventory perfectly manageable.

From what I understand, the reason why stuff like the inventory was in ME1 was because Bioware had no idea how else to implement RPG elements that affect combat performance within the Unreal 3 engine and just stuck with what they usually did. It's not surprising that it was ditched in ME2 because let's be honest: Mass Effect 1 was a technical culsterfrak. It was a massive failure in terms of expandability, since only two bits of DLC ever came out for it despite
Bioware's intentions to bridge ME1 and ME2 with DLC, and fixability, since Bioware couldn't fix the PC version's low texture Garrus face without a massive multigigabyte patch. ME2 turned out to be a far superior game because Bioware managed to learn from their experience with ME1 and basically rebuilt the game from the ground up, keeping some models and art assets.

That said, the modding system Bioware showed off at E3 looks like a massive step up from the terrible custimization that ME1 and 2 offered for weapons. While ME2's system didn't really involve player choice, it was light years better than ME1's "pick the best gun, switch it out for a better one, rinse and repeat with everything else" system that featured mods whose effects were only really visible in the most extreme cases (Double Frictionless Material X ARs firing forever, Double Scram Rail X Sniper Rifles with Explosive Rounds X one shotting everything short of Armatures and Collossi).

Modifié par kregano, 01 juillet 2011 - 02:18 .

[Cyberfrog81]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

BioWare is smart enough to be very choosey with elements from ME1 that they add back into ME2, so I'm confident that ME3 will be the best of the bunch and much more like ME2 than ME1.

Exactly. ME1 isn't coming back. It barely worked when it was released (basically saved by an amazing story). It wouldn't work in 2012. Get over it.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Gunderic wrote...

It was more than one title for me. Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2, the DLC debacle that seems to plague the Dragon Age franchise, the way both Dragon Age titles were marketed and the developer responses following the sequel's release -- it's been a mess lately.

Which is funny, cause I see BioWare moving from a niche RPG studio into a studio that might drive RPGs into something a lot of people want to play.  I guess I can agree that things have been messy, but the vast majority of the mess has been with a single title, DA2, and the community's reaction to it.  AFAIC, everything has been getting better by the game.  DAO --> DA2 wasn't as perfectly done as ME1 --> ME2.  A little more time though...  

Kick ass stuff is coming.  B)B)

[Lumikki]

I don't know, I think the interview was nice. Seems more like telling truth.

As for players opinions, I don't much care about them, they seem to be all based, including mine, looking they own perspective. There is over 2 million players wanting different things. So, it's not so easy to try please so many of them.

Modifié par Lumikki, 01 juillet 2011 - 02:40 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Yes they have made one title that extremely disappointed us. We must now permanently brand them as being unable to learn from their mistakes. Hold them still while I heat up the branding iron.

...Or we can just admit that if we really felt that were true we wouldn't be hanging out full time on their forums? Nah that's crazy talk.

At the time ME2 came out I was rather disappointed because of all the stuff that had been cut from the game. BioWare seems to think that improving things is not the way to go. Instead they cut features that merely require improvement. At the time I thought they did that rather drastically to ME2 and I was very disappointed.

I moved on to DA:O and enjoyed that game much more, because it was a fresh breeze of air compared to all the dumbing down in ME2. When I compare DA2 to ME2 then I think ME2 is a brilliant game. But that's only relative, because I still think DA:O is superior. In DA2 an incredible amount of stuff was cut from the game. But let's continue with ME3.

When Arrival came I was about to give up on ME3. That DLC is combat only and even the crew was cut from it, with nearly no character interaction. That didn't give me much hope for ME3.

Like I said, BW never learns from their mistakes. What has been cut will never be back. Once BW is set on a course of dumbng down they'll continue it, because they really feel that we gamers are too stupid to pickup a mouse or a controller. Besides, cutting stuff from a game is more cost effective. That's another reason to continue the course.

The news about ME3 appears to be good. However, what we hear is what PR and marketing wants us to hear. I don't trust those departments at all after not telling the truth on more than one occaission, so I remain highly skeptical.

If I read an interview with a BW employee then PR and marketing drips all over it. I don't hear an excited developer talk, instead I'll hear statements orchestrated to keep the gamers and, more importantly, the stockholders happy.

The only thing I can do is post about it in the hope that I am proven wrong or that it will change BW's behavior. I am here because I love some of the stuff in those games. Not all is bad. Let's hope more doesn't get lost.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 01 juillet 2011 - 02:44 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

BioWare never learns. They do think that removing is improving things. We have seen in it in ME2 and now in DA2.

Bingo.

BioWare doesn't seem to be able to fix or improve features from sequel to sequel. Rather they'll just strip them out entirely and then act surprised when people are pissed off.

Some of the features they removed from DAO deserved to be flushed.  They had long since begun to stink.

BioWare is smart enough to be very choosey with elements from ME1 that they add back into ME2, so I'm confident that ME3 will be the best of the bunch and much more like ME2 than ME1.

And what elements are those? Depth and Customization? Since DA2 had very little of either.

[Gunderic]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

It was more than one title for me. Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2, the DLC debacle that seems to plague the Dragon Age franchise, the way both Dragon Age titles were marketed and the developer responses following the sequel's release -- it's been a mess lately.

Fair enough. I thought ME2 was spectacular, but I respect your opinion. But if  you've given up on them, why are you here?

I don't know if "giving up on them" would be the right phrase to use. I'm not exactly optimistic, that's true, but I'm also curious as to how their next games will turn out. I don't view it as a "broken loyalty relationship" type of thing, or anything to get significantly personally and emotionally involved over. Just trying to discuss the merits of their games, whether good or negative, as simply a customer first and foremost -- rather than a fan ( though I'm also a fan of some of their games, and others less so ). Admittedly, I'm not always constructive, but I don't think they're "doomed to fail" or determined to "never learn from their mistakes" either.

Simply put, I discuss BioWare and their games ( or compare theirs with others ) because they're relevant.

Modifié par Gunderic, 01 juillet 2011 - 02:52 .

[BloodyTalon]

Glad to see them admitting mistakes and learning from them.........

Modifié par Talosred, 01 juillet 2011 - 02:56 .

[Estelindis]

Personally, I'd like a system where one can replicate any item for a reasonable cost in credits or minerals after one finds the first one. One would find weapons mods with a frequency somewhat between ME1 loot and ME2 upgrades: more frequent reward and better customisation than ME2, but avoiding the ME1 issue of continually finding the same gear and just having to omnigel it. The "treasure table" would be set to find the same thing again less often, but if one did find the same again then one would simply receive credits or minerals instead (equivalent to the cost of fabricating the item).

Modifié par Estelindis, 01 juillet 2011 - 03:03 .

[Mr.House]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

And what elements are those? Depth and Customization? Since DA2 had very little of either.

You can fix those issues in DA2, you can't in ME2.

[Gunderic]

Mr.House wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

And what elements are those? Depth and Customization? Since DA2 had very little of either.

You can fix those issues in DA2, you can't in ME2.

Sorry, fan modded armour is not my thing, personally.

[kregano]

Estelindis wrote...

Personally, I'd like a system where one can replicate any item for a reasonable cost in credits or minerals after one finds the first one. One would find weapons mods with a frequency somewhat between ME1 loot and ME2 upgrades: more frequent reward and better customisation than ME2, but avoiding the ME1 issue of continually finding the same gear and just having to omnigel it. The "treasure table" would be set to find the same thing again less often, but if one did find the same again then one would simply receive credits or minerals instead (equivalent to the cost of fabricating the item).

So... basically the ME2 research system, with an extra cost requirement tacked on everytime you want to make a new gun/mod/whatever for your squadmates?

[Mr.House]

Gunderic wrote...
Sorry, fan modded armour is not my thing, personally.

Not all of that is fan modded.

Fenris is wearing Fallen armour set, Izzy is wearing Guarian rogue stuff, Aveline is wearing a mix match of champ armour and Kings armour. Carver is a GW and has such as his GW stuff and Seb is wearing champ rogue stuff. The fact is I can put non fan stuff on Merrill and Anders if I wanted.

People complain about stuff lost in DA2, the ponit is it's not hard to fix and since this was complained a lot hopefuly DA3 will have more freedom. The same can not be said for ME2 and most likely ME3 will follow with catsuits and unrealistic clothing for a Sci Fi series.

[Warheadz]

Lolz, it might be just me but I'd rather see actions or footage that this is actually true, since I'm quite tired of getting my hopes up and then the game industry gives me ****. Let's stop this bull**** propaganda already.

I'm sorry, I just find this sorta talking pointless and silly.

[Aimi]

Mr.House wrote...

The same can not be said for ME2 and most likely ME3 will follow with catsuits and unrealistic clothing for a Sci Fi series.

Why do you think so?

[Nerevar-as]

I thought the only way to change companion armor in DA2 after prologue was romancing them.

And I´d be less worried about DA if this comment had been by a DA dev. ME2 didn´t have the narrative problems from DA2, thanks to having a main goal and that despite most plot quests were filler (get loyalty but not advancing the plot or lore hardly at all), they were good anyway.

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 01 juillet 2011 - 03:25 .

[Estelindis]

kregano wrote...

So... basically the ME2 research system, with an extra cost requirement tacked on everytime you want to make a new gun/mod/whatever for your squadmates?

The ME2 research system but with much more frequent finds, yes.  I'm thinking there would have to be a cost to balance things out, but maybe that would just be annoying?