What do you think of the duct rat scene?
For those who haven't heard, and don't mind *minor* spoilers, in this video, Shepard comes across a young boy in the ducts (at about 9:50). When I saw this scene, for some reason a ton of my worries for ME3 faded (they did not go away, but they faded). I find this scene very emotional and well done for three reasons:
1) It shows a child. I recall a thread from a while back talking about how there are no children in ME. This kid feels well done, not particularly out of place as most kids in video games do. And I'm glad at least someone is wearing ordinary clothing for the first time.
2) It brings the game to a more personal level. Before this, the closest we had to ordinary people involved in our grand plans was a cynical mechanic who hates the Alliance and some emails. This makes it much more personal--it's a child, after all.
3) Shepard doesn't solve the problem. Okay, another relatively large SPOILER here. In the scene, the boy runs away even if you try to help him. And It seems that just as his rescue ship is leaving, he locks eyes with Shepard...before a reaper takes his ship out. This will also be emotionally powerful to see, I believe, because of the bizarre lack of personal death Shepard encounters on his/her journeys, barring the Virmire Survivor. At least with that you get to pick who dies--with this no matter what your choice the boy dies. I'm all for choice, but I don't think Shepard should be able to save EVERYONE, as evidenced by this scene.
So what do you think? Is the scene well done? Is the kid relatively believable? Should you be able to save him? Discuss.
*Spoilers* The Duct Rat *Spoilers*
Débuté par
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, juil. 01 2011 08:23
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#2
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 08:39
HogarthHughes 3
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The first child encountered in Mass Effect, and he is promptly killed. 
At least I needn't worry about having some annoying child character aboard the Normandy, very rarely have video games presented children that aren't unbearable.
The scene still isn't very personal to me (or my three Shepards), obviously children are a soft spot but an innocent dying is an innocent dying regardless of age. I'm curious as to what Shepard says if the "Get out of here" option is picked though, maybe it could even result in a different outcome.
At least I needn't worry about having some annoying child character aboard the Normandy, very rarely have video games presented children that aren't unbearable.The scene still isn't very personal to me (or my three Shepards), obviously children are a soft spot but an innocent dying is an innocent dying regardless of age. I'm curious as to what Shepard says if the "Get out of here" option is picked though, maybe it could even result in a different outcome.
#3
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 08:52
Ieldra
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I'm not that much into children.
The best "death of an innocent" was Kate Bowman in Bring Down the Sky if you didn't let Balak go. That was very emotional, for above being "just there", she was a woman you could admire for her courage beyond anything she was expected to show. It's for the likes of her that I save humanity, and if such people die, I feel the loss keenly. Random children....not so much.
The best "death of an innocent" was Kate Bowman in Bring Down the Sky if you didn't let Balak go. That was very emotional, for above being "just there", she was a woman you could admire for her courage beyond anything she was expected to show. It's for the likes of her that I save humanity, and if such people die, I feel the loss keenly. Random children....not so much.
#4
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 08:52
Draco856
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Well, you can't really tell if the kid dies or not and we also only saw the "paragon" response. We didn't see what happened if Shepard forced the issue. Also you can't really tell if the kid dies in that scene. You just see a shuttle get taken out, but then the camera moves away and you don't see the aftermath, though it is assumable that everyone on the platform and in the shuttle dies, it's possible they don't.
#5
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 10:00
sbvera13
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I think it's a pretty classic scene, played out in hundreds of different ways in the numerous games BW has done before. I've seen it brought up already as a "classic Bioware non-choice." I disagree; BW games are far more linear then they let on. Roughly 90% of the time, you are choosing HOW to address a problem, not necessarily changing the outcome. It's only the major plot points that eve have multiple outcomes; go replay some games and see. BW knows this, and it's how things are intended to be.
As Garrus says when you talk him out of killing Dr. Saleon in ME1:
Garrus: So he dies anyway. What was the point of all of that?
Paragon Shep: We can't control how people respond. We can only control our actions, and that has to be enough.
meta-commentary on their own games, right there.
As Garrus says when you talk him out of killing Dr. Saleon in ME1:
Garrus: So he dies anyway. What was the point of all of that?
Paragon Shep: We can't control how people respond. We can only control our actions, and that has to be enough.
meta-commentary on their own games, right there.
#6
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 10:26
13commander
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sbvera13 wrote...
I think it's a pretty classic scene, played out in hundreds of different ways in the numerous games BW has done before. I've seen it brought up already as a "classic Bioware non-choice." I disagree; BW games are far more linear then they let on. Roughly 90% of the time, you are choosing HOW to address a problem, not necessarily changing the outcome. It's only the major plot points that eve have multiple outcomes; go replay some games and see. BW knows this, and it's how things are intended to be.
As Garrus says when you talk him out of killing Dr. Saleon in ME1:
Garrus: So he dies anyway. What was the point of all of that?
Paragon Shep: We can't control how people respond. We can only control our actions, and that has to be enough.
meta-commentary on their own games, right there.
And isn't this like real life ?
I mean sure I would like to change everything and everyone and every plot and twist but is unduable, but maybe thats how its meant to be, thats how we define our character (Our Shepard/s) by how we adress a certain situation not by necesarally changing its outcome but by how we adress it, and hey isn't that the reason why people like/hate/love/etc Shepard, by how he reacts to certain situation and how he tries (or not) to do everything right and save everyone (or not depending on being Paragon or Renegade).
Maybe we can't change the outcome but we can definitly change how people see and regard us and to me that seems real, as real can get .
#7
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 01:08
Smeelia
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That's a good example, I'll have to remember that one.sbvera13 wrote...
As Garrus says when you talk him out of killing Dr. Saleon in ME1:
Garrus: So he dies anyway. What was the point of all of that?
Paragon Shep: We can't control how people respond. We can only control our actions, and that has to be enough.
meta-commentary on their own games, right there.
This is also pretty much how I play the game, the outcome is whatever the writers chose to make it but I get to decide which choices my Shepard will make.
#8
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 01:31
wolfennights
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And that's why I love Mass Effect. :happy:13commander wrote...
sbvera13 wrote...
I think it's a pretty classic scene, played out in hundreds of different ways in the numerous games BW has done before. I've seen it brought up already as a "classic Bioware non-choice." I disagree; BW games are far more linear then they let on. Roughly 90% of the time, you are choosing HOW to address a problem, not necessarily changing the outcome. It's only the major plot points that eve have multiple outcomes; go replay some games and see. BW knows this, and it's how things are intended to be.
As Garrus says when you talk him out of killing Dr. Saleon in ME1:
Garrus: So he dies anyway. What was the point of all of that?
Paragon Shep: We can't control how people respond. We can only control our actions, and that has to be enough.
meta-commentary on their own games, right there.
And isn't this like real life ?
I mean sure I would like to change everything and everyone and every plot and twist but is unduable, but maybe thats how its meant to be, thats how we define our character (Our Shepard/s) by how we adress a certain situation not by necesarally changing its outcome but by how we adress it, and hey isn't that the reason why people like/hate/love/etc Shepard, by how he reacts to certain situation and how he tries (or not) to do everything right and save everyone (or not depending on being Paragon or Renegade).
Maybe we can't change the outcome but we can definitly change how people see and regard us and to me that seems real, as real can get .
#10
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 04:54
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
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wolfennights wrote...
And that's why I love Mass Effect. :happy:13commander wrote...
sbvera13 wrote...
I think it's a pretty classic scene, played out in hundreds of different ways in the numerous games BW has done before. I've seen it brought up already as a "classic Bioware non-choice." I disagree; BW games are far more linear then they let on. Roughly 90% of the time, you are choosing HOW to address a problem, not necessarily changing the outcome. It's only the major plot points that eve have multiple outcomes; go replay some games and see. BW knows this, and it's how things are intended to be.
As Garrus says when you talk him out of killing Dr. Saleon in ME1:
Garrus: So he dies anyway. What was the point of all of that?
Paragon Shep: We can't control how people respond. We can only control our actions, and that has to be enough.
meta-commentary on their own games, right there.
And isn't this like real life ?
I mean sure I would like to change everything and everyone and every plot and twist but is unduable, but maybe thats how its meant to be, thats how we define our character (Our Shepard/s) by how we adress a certain situation not by necesarally changing its outcome but by how we adress it, and hey isn't that the reason why people like/hate/love/etc Shepard, by how he reacts to certain situation and how he tries (or not) to do everything right and save everyone (or not depending on being Paragon or Renegade).
Maybe we can't change the outcome but we can definitly change how people see and regard us and to me that seems real, as real can get .
Good points, all. And that's why i love mass effect too! Not two. Well yes, I did love two too, that's just not what I meant--
Never mind:happy:
#11
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 05:03
nhsk
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Very good explanation sbvera13, people on these boards tend to want each "decision" to somehow play how the game plays and frankly that would require a lot more open ended story telling than BW is accustomed to, and why I love BW games ever since I played Baldur's Gate the first time.
And yes children in media, like games and movies, tend to become an annoyance. Unless they have a really well done character, which is rarely achieved by anyone IMO.
And yes children in media, like games and movies, tend to become an annoyance. Unless they have a really well done character, which is rarely achieved by anyone IMO.
#12
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 05:20
Gixxer6Rdr
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In which video do we see the kid's (assumed) shuttle get blown up? Must have missed that...
#14
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 05:25
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
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Gixxer6Rdr wrote...
In which video do we see the kid's (assumed) shuttle get blown up? Must have missed that...
In a couple of interviews they mentioned it, I believe.
#15
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 09:39
demonic_cookie
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I'm sort of iffy of the whole "blow up the kid to play the sympathy card" thing... maybe it seems more engaging during the actual game, but so far it just sounds like a cheap shot. Should have given the kid a kitten for full effect.
#16
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 09:42
Fiery Phoenix
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I think it's an excellent scene for what it's supposed to be. ME2 desperately lacked this. It also makes Shepard look human!
#17
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 09:48
Dean_the_Young
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I did and forever will think 'stupid kid.'
And hope that the Renegade line shows the exasperation and impatience that I felt at such a naked attempt at an emotional ploy.
And hope that the Renegade line shows the exasperation and impatience that I felt at such a naked attempt at an emotional ploy.
#18
Posté 01 juillet 2011 - 09:51
CheeseEnchilada
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Fiery Phoenix wrote...
I think it's an excellent scene for what it's supposed to be. ME2 desperately lacked this. It also makes Shepard look human!
All of this, but especially the bolded. The kid may have just been a device made to make us see how bad things are, but he made Shepard stop looking like a brick. That alone is enough for me.
