182 réponses à ce sujet

[LGTX]

jamesp81 wrote...

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[ipgd]

That's not a flow chart.

[upsettingshorts]

ipgd wrote...

That's not a flow chart.

[Phaedon]

That flowchart is horribly wrong when you try to match it to a specific game.

Especially when you attempt to do it while playing it.

Modifié par Phaedon, 01 juillet 2011 - 08:21 .

[Il Divo]

While I would like to see more innovation from Bioware, their games are still terrific on their own merits. After ME3, I'd actually like to see Bioware start making original IPs again. Jade Empire still stands out as my favorite setting. 

[nhsk]

No matter how cliché it may be what I missed from DA2 was to be inducted into a secret order at least come across some doomsday information only you know about, and you try to stop it... Yes it's worn down, but better saving the world/universe/galaxy from ultimate evil of some kind than being errand boy/girl in Kirkwall.

[ipgd]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

This is a flow chart.

That other chart is just a chart.

[slimgrin]

If they need to mix it up a bit I say go for it.

[marshalleck]

nhsk wrote...

No matter how cliché it may be what I missed from DA2 was to be inducted into a secret order at least come across some doomsday information only you know about, and you try to stop it... Yes it's worn down, but better saving the world/universe/galaxy from ultimate evil of some kind than being errand boy/girl in Kirkwall.

The Warden was jsut as much an errand boy as Hawke.

"Here, take my daughter. (  )"
"Go figure out what's up with the werewolves."
"Go find Branka."
"Go clear out the Circle tower of blood mages."
"Bring me the sacred ashes of Andraste."

etc etc

Modifié par marshalleck, 01 juillet 2011 - 08:33 .

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Il Divo wrote...

While I would like to see more innovation from Bioware, their games are still terrific on their own merits. After ME3, I'd actually like to see Bioware start making original IPs again. Jade Empire still stands out as my favorite setting. 

I agree - barring the borderline racism, Jade Empire is easily a better world than generic fantasy or generic soft sci-fi. It's the execution that was the problem - the concept of a steampunk pseudo-China plagued by the restless dead is awesome.

[nhsk]

marshalleck wrote...

nhsk wrote...

No matter how cliché it may be what I missed from DA2 was to be inducted into a secret order at least come across some doomsday information only you know about, and you try to stop it... Yes it's worn down, but better saving the world/universe/galaxy from ultimate evil of some kind than being errand boy/girl in Kirkwall.

The Warden was jsut as much an errand boy as Hawke.

Only as much as you cared being it, in DA2 I didn't have any ultimate goal as "caring for family" was literally taken out early, after last member was dead I didn't really have any motivation to go forward other than "completing the game" which isn't enough for me.

[Ryzaki]

marshalleck wrote...

nhsk wrote...

No matter how cliché it may be what I missed from DA2 was to be inducted into a secret order at least come across some doomsday information only you know about, and you try to stop it... Yes it's worn down, but better saving the world/universe/galaxy from ultimate evil of some kind than being errand boy/girl in Kirkwall.

The Warden was jsut as much an errand boy as Hawke.

 

But you had the opportunity to become something *other* than an errand boy at the end. Not to mention you could tell the person who sent you to do something "SCREW OFF" more often than not. With Eamon and Duncan being notable exceptions. 

[Shotokanguy]

We should be lambasting this topic simply because we know so little of ME3's story structure.

Why the HELL would you make this topic?

[upsettingshorts]

You have to buy in to fiction.

If you didn't like the Grey Wardens or didn't particularly want to save Ferelden, everything the Warden did could seem just as much of a chore as anything Hawke had to do.

[Rinji the Bearded]

I think we can all walk away from this topic having learned something about flowcharts, as there is no new information being presented here.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

LGTX wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It's (to me) mostly a question of whether Bioware can maintain their reputation for telling unusually good stories with stuff like Witcher 2 and (probably) Deus Ex 3 flying around if they continue to play it safe. It would be awesome if they stepped out of their comfort zone a little more.

[ipgd]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

It would be awesome if they stepped out of their comfort zone a little more.

Look what happened the last time they tried that.

People do not like change.

Modifié par ipgd, 01 juillet 2011 - 08:55 .

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

ipgd wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

It would be awesome if they stepped out of their comfort zone a little more.

Look what happened the last time they tried that.

People do not like change.

I don't think it was necessarily the change that was the problem - it was more stuff like this. A story with a non-traditional focus, framing device, and unreliable narrator is definitely good in theory - it's just the execution haha.

[slimgrin]

ipgd wrote...


People do not like change.

People don't like change for the worse. This is not really a crusade of mine anyway. I've only played three of their games, so the formula hasn't gotten old yet. But formula is dangerous stuff in art.

Modifié par slimgrin, 01 juillet 2011 - 09:02 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

I don't think it was necessarily the change that was the problem - it was more stuff like this. A story with a non-traditional focus, framing device, and unreliable narrator is definitely good in theory - it's just the execution haha.

What about the "this" point was a problem on their part?

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 01 juillet 2011 - 09:05 .

[jamesp81]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

LGTX wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It's (to me) mostly a question of whether Bioware can maintain their reputation for telling unusually good stories with stuff like Witcher 2 and (probably) Deus Ex 3 flying around if they continue to play it safe. It would be awesome if they stepped out of their comfort zone a little more.

There are only a few actual literary plotlines that have ever been written.  The only thing that changes are the settings and the names of the characters.

There is a reason why the same stories keep getting told over and over.  On some level, what human beings like in terms of storytelling is written into our genetic code.  You can't step TOO far out of the comfort zone, lest people lose interest.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

RinjiRenee wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

I don't think it was necessarily the change that was the problem - it was more stuff like this. A story with a non-traditional focus, framing device, and unreliable narrator is definitely good in theory - it's just the execution haha.

What about the "this" point was a problem on their part?

Paragraphs like this one:

"The first pair of open shutters he saw and Fenris dived through. He
landed in a kitchen filled with the smell of baking bread, and a human
woman screamed as he rolled to his feet. No doubt the sight of an elf in
skintight armor, carrying a blade almost as large as himself, wasn’t a
welcome sight. He got to his feet and noticed the surprisingly comely
woman, dressed in a nightgown that revealed more of her cleavage than
she no doubt expected, pressing against the wall."

You don't want the people who wrote that paragraph writing your game

[Rinji the Bearded]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

I don't think it was necessarily the change that was the problem - it was more stuff like this. A story with a non-traditional focus, framing device, and unreliable narrator is definitely good in theory - it's just the execution haha.

What about the "this" point was a problem on their part?

Paragraphs like this one:

"The first pair of open shutters he saw and Fenris dived through. He
landed in a kitchen filled with the smell of baking bread, and a human
woman screamed as he rolled to his feet. No doubt the sight of an elf in
skintight armor, carrying a blade almost as large as himself, wasn’t a
welcome sight. He got to his feet and noticed the surprisingly comely
woman, dressed in a nightgown that revealed more of her cleavage than
she no doubt expected, pressing against the wall."

You don't want the people who wrote that paragraph writing your game

I will agree that I never really cared for Fenris's story (nor Fenris for that matter), and I see where you were getting at now.  I, for the most part, enjoyed DAII's writing, but I've never played a game where the writing was always absolutely spot-on.

[leggywillow]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...
Paragraphs like this one:

"The first pair of open shutters he saw and Fenris dived through. He
landed in a kitchen filled with the smell of baking bread, and a human
woman screamed as he rolled to his feet. No doubt the sight of an elf in
skintight armor, carrying a blade almost as large as himself, wasn’t a
welcome sight. He got to his feet and noticed the surprisingly comely
woman, dressed in a nightgown that revealed more of her cleavage than
she no doubt expected, pressing against the wall."

You don't want the people who wrote that paragraph writing your game

Hmm, that's an interesting blanket statement to make.  David Gaider is the one who wrote Fenris' short story.  He was also the lead writer for Origins and worked on Knights of the Old Republic and Baldur's Gate, and he didn't seem to muck those up.

[ipgd]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

You don't want the people who wrote that paragraph writing your game

Who was also the lead writer for DAO, so I'm not really seeing where this comes into the "change" equation.

Not that a single paragraph of prose from an entirely different medium from the one he primarily works in really has much bearing on a writer's entire body of work, anyway. I've always maintained there's a distinction between a good wordsmith and a good storyteller and the two needn't really have much to do with eachother.

Modifié par ipgd, 01 juillet 2011 - 09:36 .