243 réponses à ce sujet

[Pepper4]

The list is lame, but regardless, ME2 deserves the first spot.

however...
No MGS4?
No DAO?
No ME1?????

[Apollo Starflare]

Pepper4 wrote...

The list is lame, but regardless, ME2 deserves the first spot.

however...
No MGS4?
No DAO?
No ME1?????

DAO is there. Crazy far back though, but really it's just a big list of games people should at least try if they are into modern gaming and there doesn't seem a huge amount of thought given to the order on the whole. At least I hope not. >.>

Hopefully ME2 placing first introduces yet more people to a fantastic series anyway.

[emanziboy]

Pepper4 wrote...

The list is lame, but regardless, ME2 deserves the first spot.

however...
No MGS4?
No DAO?
No ME1?????

They only allowed one game per franchise, so they picked ME2 at 1, MGS: Peace Walker at 37, and DAO was on the list, it was 89.

[Gunderic]

  

InvaderErl wrote...
Sure. 

There were numerous posters that made the same point I did about the question being one that was going to provoke a reaction, SomeoneWithMass, Eduadinho, AlanC9. 

As for the backtracking, I'm not surprised that you had to do it once I started quoting what you were actually saying.

I only re-clarified my past points after you brought them up. To be extra clear, I was referring to "backtracking" in the sense of reviewing past comments from this discussion, not stepping down or having a change of opinion in mid-conversation.[/b]

Except that's not what your original argument was, its not something I would have bothered to respond to, that's what you made your argument into when it began to crumble. 

You asserted that

Gunderic wrote...
....

That was your quote, I'm sorry if that's incovenient but its right there in black and white, regardless of what your trying to backpeddle it towards now. 

Somehow, I don't find myself needing to backpeddle at all in retrospect. By all accounts a 'significantly higher number than you might have thought' ( in reference to the sarcastic comment about there being three people disliking Mass Effect 2 ), as similarly-sounding as it may be, is not exactly the same as saying that "the dislikes in that video indicate a significant backlash and dissatisfaction with ME2 as a game."

To which people again responded that the dislikes were most likely due to the divisive nature of the award in question. 

Okay, but it is the divisive nature and the 'popularity contest' type of awards that also benefits from stronger opinions about the games in question, not just the "if the game deserved to be #1" question ( imo ). I don't see the divisive nature of the contest as necessarily invalidating everything brought up about the game -- I see it attracting more people that didn't like the game to voice their opinions ( which is not -necessarily- bad ) -- though I'd understand if others would dismiss them if they'd regard negative opinions about their favorite game as a stressor.

Whether there are just as many or twice as more people voting on a video you have said yourself to be liable to cause less contention, does not invalidate the votes of people who responded negatively on another.

You using the dislikes in the initial video as some measure of backlash is faulty when the GOTY award video has a much higher ratio of likes to dislikes, well over 2/3 in fact, and has more views/votes.

I don't consider it faulty as I have not stated that the 'dislikes' for Mass Effect 2 videos were higher than the 'likes' for another video of your own choice, something you have repeatedly constructed as a counterargument for reasons unbeknownst to me. I feel as if you're constructing the same non sequiturs over and over in your posts*, as I don't care about the demographic of people who liked Mass Effect 2 in this discussion.

*I'd still like to know how anything I wrote was "in support of the notion that half of the fanbase liked Mass Effect 1 better", even though one of my very first comments in this discussion was written with the purpose of dismissing that, but you went on ahead to rummage through my quotes to find support for this assumption regardless.

Modifié par Gunderic, 02 juillet 2011 - 07:30 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Pepper4 wrote...

The list is lame, but regardless, ME2 deserves the first spot.

however...
No MGS4?
No DAO?
No ME1?????

DA:O is there, 85.

There is a Metal Gear game on the list as well.

[Il Divo]

sbvera13 wrote...

Any list that doesn't have the original Deus Ex in the top spot loses all credibility for me... at least they techincally excluded it with the 2005-11 thing. Gives them enough breathing room to not look like complete tools. Looks like they wasted it though.

So any list with a difference of opinion on which game is 'the best' can't have any credibility? Deus Ex can't place somewhere in the top ten? Or top twenty? That seems rather unfair.

Modifié par Il Divo, 02 juillet 2011 - 08:24 .

[Il Divo]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

secondly, isnt that why this topic should be a concern tho? becasue even biowares own forum is questioning the
success of ME2???

Again, it's not a question of success. People continue to misconstrue these awards. Not every Mass Effect 2 fan must think that it's the best game ever. Ign awarded Mass Effect 2 an award for modern gaming. Ergo, even Mass Effect 2 fans will complain. It's that simple.

I personally would have given the award to Portal 2. But you know what? It ranked high enough that I'm not going to get angsty over it.

Modifié par Il Divo, 02 juillet 2011 - 08:18 .

[InvaderErl]

Gunderic wrote...

Somehow, I don't find myself needing to backpeddle at all in retrospect. By all accounts a 'significantly higher number than you might have thought' ( in reference to the sarcastic comment about there being three people disliking Mass Effect 2 ), as similarly-sounding as it may be, is not exactly the same as saying that "the dislikes in that video indicate a significant backlash and dissatisfaction with ME2 as a game."

Gunderic wrote...
 it shows that there are a significantly higher number of people who were displeased with the direction the game took, or considered the first entry in the franchise to be better than the sequel than you might have initially thought

So which is it?

Gunderic wrote...
Okay, but it is the divisive nature and the 'popularity contest' type of awards that also benefits from stronger opinions about the games in question, not just the "if the game deserved to be #1" question ( imo ). I don't see the divisive nature of the contest as necessarily invalidating everything brought up about the game -- I see it attracting more people that didn't like the game to voice their opinions ( which is not -necessarily- bad ) -- though I'd understand if others would dismiss them if they'd regard negative opinions about their favorite game as a stressor.

So its not a reasonable sample because as you yourself said a reward of this nature is going to attract a more extreme response than what would be average.

Gunderic wrote...
Whether there are just as many or twice as more people voting on a video you have said yourself to be liable to cause less contention, does not invalidate the votes of people who responded negatively on another.

The GOTY selection is still a competitive event and in fact drew more views/votes than the newer video did so it seems to be one with a much larger purview.

But thank you for making my point for me, let's look at that cause of contention. The GOTY youtube video  after all reflects if people who watched the video agreed with IGN's choice in that case about ME2 being the best game that came out in 2011.

The new video reflects by that same token whether or not people  agreed with IGN'S choice that ME2 was the best game that has come out since 2005.

See the difference?

Since you seem to understand the latter competition is going to be incredibly divisive it becomes odd to me that you insists on using the latter competition as a basis for your opinion while ignoring the former one even though it more directly speaks to the concept of ME2 being a good game.

But I guess I can understand why you would be eager regardless to accept negative opinions about a game you don't like as a means of confirmation bias.

Il Divo wrote...


Again, it's not a question of success. People continue to misconstrue these awards. Not every Mass Effect 2 fan must think that it's the best game ever. Ign awarded Mass Effect 2 an award for modern gaming. Ergo, even Mass Effect 2 fans will complain. It's that simple.

This bears repeating as well.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 02 juillet 2011 - 08:33 .

[littlezack]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the people who disliked the video never even played Mass Effect - they were just miffed that whatever game they like didn't make the spot they wanted.

[Elvis_Mazur]

I agree 100% with IGN in regards to Mass Effect 2's place in the list.

GO GO GO, Mass Effect 2!!!

[SirKillsalot]

Mostly agree with the list but swap MGS Peace Walker for MGS4. Bump Starcraft 2 up to the top ten.

[MJRick]

Good to see ME2 take it's rightful place at #1, Really only bad thing about this list is that The Witcher 2 was one there.

[Drasill]

ME2 isn't even as good as ME1.

[JayhartRIC]

ME 2 won, and Bioware deserves it.

[Gunderic]

InvaderErl wrote...

So which is it?

Which is what? To summarize again, given the context, I meant "significantly higher" with consideration to the post I was replying to. The first quote indicates something to be relatively higher than the vague amount I referenced, the second one refers to a more relatively widespread, general sense of polarization which I did not say the video indicates.

If you really wanted to make the case that I think Mass Effect 2 did suffer from some form of 'real backlash' ( as I've said in one of my posts ), then sure, I believe that -- but nowhere did I say something like a youtube video was a good indicator, a credible form of measurement, a remotely accurate method of demonstrating that "half ( or a significant number in general ) of the fans didn't like Mass Effect 2." "Higher than you may think", yes.

So its not a reasonable sample because as you yourself said a reward of this nature is going to attract a more extreme response than what would be average.

Whether you conclude it's 'reasonable' or not should be a consequence of your own judgement.

But thank you for making my point for me, let's look at that cause of contention. The GOTY youtube video  after all reflects if people who watched the video agreed with IGN's choice in that case about ME2 being the best game that came out in 2011.

Also pointless. One metric ( hypothetically ) shows how many people liked the game, another how many didn't. My argument involved showing the latter. Comparing results is fine in principle; saying that one from one source invalidates the existence of another doesn't automatically make me agree.

Since you seem to understand the latter competition is going to be incredibly divisive it becomes odd to me that you insists on using the latter competition as a basis for your opinion

This part of the argument is inherently pointless if we don't agree on what 'my opinion' was. I'd rather not fall into an endless cycle of repeats... especially after Dragon Age 2.

while ignoring the former one even though it more directly speaks to the concept of ME2 being a good game.

You do realize that's not the only Mass Effect 2 rating score in existence, right? People approving of a GOTY winner is not a novelty. Less divisive = less people with polarizing opinions care.

Modifié par Gunderic, 03 juillet 2011 - 10:34 .

[Stephen1981]

it seems mass effect 1 gets over looked a lot and how much better the story is in mass effect 1 than in mass effect 2 in my opinion but i guess some people will think mass effect 2 is a master piece when clearly the story is lacking

[ScepticMatt]

It doesn't surprise me knowing IGN, but I would have a different list.

[ALex360]

For me,it was deserved.

I knew ME2 was the best game of this generation since the day of release.

[azerSheppard]

Portal 2 should be #1, Wheatly felt more "real" than any other game character i have come across, and he is a MACHINE!

Just goes to show how good a job valve does at immersion. Alot of people actually responded/answered to what he said/asked througout the campaign. He is felt that real.