144 réponses à ce sujet

[Asari_Party]

The ME1 romance scenes were perfect imo. I was somewhat disappointed with the ME2 scenes.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Inutaisho7996 wrote...
A lot of people point towards The Witcher 2 for having better sex than Mass Effect, but TW2 didn't handle sex maturely. It was just a few awkward cuts to people humping in different positions; I don't want to see that in Mass Effect. The only exception being when Geralt wakes up next to Triss. The way they look at each other when they wake up says a lot about their relationship. That's what sex scenes between Shepard and his/her love interest should do: reinforce the characters' relationship. Not titilate the audiance.

It handled it maturely in the sense that it was part of a developed relationship, developed the characters (showed a playful aspect of their personalities that doesn't get a lot of chances to show in the comparatively grimdark witcher setting) and (along with the rest of the love story) was a major part of the plot. SPOILERS-> The "find Triss vs. pursue the rest of the plot" choice at the end wouldn't have had nearly as much impact if the game hadn't spent time fully developing the characters and their relationship. Sure, it has nudity, but more to the point it's good storytelling with or without the nudity. I would much rather have that than the rather cursory hook-ups in Mass Effect 2.

[Inspectre]

Inutaisho7996 wrote...


This is exactly what I was talking about. The scenes should show romance, not sex. Sex can be a part of romance, but it doesn't have to be.

You, my friend, are one of very few. 
And you have my respect, for what it's worth.

[Good Chaos7]

Dragon XIX wrote...

Inutaisho7996 wrote...


This is exactly what I was talking about. The scenes should show romance, not sex. Sex can be a part of romance, but it doesn't have to be.

You, my friend, are one of very few. 
And you have my respect, for what it's worth.

^ This, yeah.

[Seboist]

Roxy12 wrote...

The ME1 romance scenes were perfect imo. I was somewhat disappointed with the ME2 scenes.

ME1 styled scenes with topless nudity would be ideal for me.

[TomY90]

In general I preferred the ME2 romances than the others even though they did not show as much overall (even Mass Effect 1 I did not like more than the ME2 romances).

I think ME1 got criticism is that it got rated a 12 with those loves scenes which parents felt were wrong, however they did forget you see that level of nudity on TV and music videos nowadays so its not what you call an issue. (however because of the age rate I was sort of with them on it whilst being against them when you consider the age it got rated.)

DA2 was the worse by far because it tried to avoid criticism when it did not need to considering it was already rated the maximum age rating in most countries because of the violence of blood in the game which too be honest was just insulting to have such awful romances even ME2 which came out before DA2 and a lower age rating had raunchier (I have seen Sesame Street have more dirtier romances than DA2 did)

However if you compare Mass Effect 2 romances to other games of that age group most the time it is just a kiss on the lips and some express of emotions but Mass Effect 2 did push the boat out more so and even in some cases showed people with shirts on and showing some flesh (i bet FOX had a field day on that one)

Thats saying I do think the game that is really going to get the anti romance nudity sword will be the Witcher 2 when that makes it way onto console, because parents thinks its fine until makes its way onto console.

[Ianamus]

Romance scenes should involve dialogue before and after, and act as a development of the relationship and the characters- not just a nude scene to get people excited. Neither should they go out of their way to avoid mature themes where they are appropriate, but It's important that they are emotionally mature, not just visually.

Mass Effect 1 did fairly well in this regard, but I wished that they could have been unique to each character. The Mass Effect 2 and Dragon age 2 have really good variety, but were a bit too prudish compared to ME1's.

Dragon Age Origins are still they worst in my opinion. They looked like bad pornography, and I would have been embarrassed to be seen watching them. Somehow they managed to be less tasteful than ME1's, even though they were wearing clothes! Not to mention unnatural-looking...

[Destroy Raiden_]

Games showing worse sex/sexually suggestive themes then ME.....

Red dead redemption - you literally walk in on npcs knocking him between her legs and her chest hanging out
God of War - multiple times in cut scenes, naked sirens you need to rip heads off of, and don't forget the mini game!
Grand Theft Auto - you can download a mod to let it all hang out.

yet ME got picked by some unknown no name writer who never played the game to go off screaming they have sex in this game it's evil! Maybe BW voted for a candidate or gave money to someone this writer didn't like so she decide to bully them and it backfired with uber sales.

Everyone was quite upset with BW decision to tone it down in ME2 if a poll went out people would vote high for a return to MEs tasteful sex scenes.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 03 juillet 2011 - 01:58 .

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

EJ107 wrote...
Dragon Age Origins are still they worst in my opinion. They looked like bad pornography, and I would have been embarrassed to be seen watching them. Somehow they managed to be less tasteful than ME1's, even though they were wearing clothes! Not to mention unnatural-looking...

Haha, seriously. Dragon Age (Origins, not 2) had the best romances, but whoever thought the sex scenes would be a good idea should be smacked. Sands of Time it is not.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

I'm surprised there's not much backlash for the scenes in The Witcher 2...

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

I'm surprised there's not much backlash for the scenes in The Witcher 2...

In the gamer community, there's not a lot of backlash mostly because in terms of the stuff that matters (integration into story/characters/relationships) the main ones were waaaaay ahead of the pack.

Of course, I'm as shocked as the next guy that FOX News hasn't had a field day about the "dirty foreign sex, witchcraft, and murder simulator."

[Seboist]

Prolly due to the Witcher 2 being a PC only game. That must make it slip under the radar for them.

[Lucifer_Cheney]

Well since its coming to the X360, expect the faux outrage to ratchet up!

[slimgrin]

Mass Effect is a far more popular franchise, and any adult content it has will be unfairly scrutinized by the press.

[Siansonea]

Whenever anyone points to the Witcher 2 as an example of a "mature" way of handling romance, I just have to laugh. It's only "mature" if you're a 16-year-old male virgin. Anyone with any real maturity realizes it's just an opportunity for the developers to showcase nude female T&A for teen boys to ****** to. Shyeah, real mature. I certainly hope BioWare doesn't take a page from Witcher's 2's book, or should I say magazine.

Now nudity doesn't bother me per se. I thought the nudity in Heavy Rain and L.A. Noire wasn't gratuitous at all, and was handled appropriately. But Triss was Female Objectification 101, and Geralt was Douchebag Male Self-Insert 101, and that combo does NOT appeal to me. Whatever redeeming qualities that game may or may not have will be forever unknown to me, after seeing the much-lauded "romance" scenes that were the talk of the town around here—no thanks. If that's what passes for mature to you kiddies, you can keep it, and keep at it. A well-done romance something should engage your emotions, not your libido. And honestly I can't think of anything more ridiculous and boring that watching two digital characters humping.

[mauro2222]

Stupid society in which sex is taboo
For the love of god teach your goddam sons what is sex, to use protection, and the responsability of having sex.
It should be permitted to have sex at the first sign of sexual maturity, like at the age of 13 or 14 years old. An example are the natives and tribes, they have sex when they enter teenage, they don´t have any prejudices for nude bodies, they don´t get "hot" by seeing someone naked, they don´t have bondage, voyeur, sadomasochism. For them the breasts, the ass, are look as any other part of the body, in our case are something directly connected with sex.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Siansonea II wrote...

Whenever anyone points to the Witcher 2 as an example of a "mature" way of handling romance, I just have to laugh. It's only "mature" if you're a 16-year-old male virgin. Anyone with any real maturity realizes it's just an opportunity for the developers to showcase nude female T&A for teen boys to ****** to. Shyeah, real mature. I certainly hope BioWare doesn't take a page from Witcher's 2's book, or should I say magazine.

Have you actually played it? It isn't mature because of the nudity (that has no bearing either way on how mature it is), it's mature because the romance plot is integrated into the story/characters/relationship to a degree that is unusual in games.

(Btw, romance isn't a code word for sex. A sex scene is generally a small, small, part of a love story, and Witcher 2 is no exception.)

EDIT: Sorry, missed the second half of your post. I'll address that, too. Part of the thing that makes Witcher games good is that
A) Characters like Triss are independent agents in the plot - to the point where (in the case of Triss) she generally changes the world a lot more than Geralt does - and therefore considerably less of an object than your average RPG character in general and average female RPG love interest in particular will be,
Geralt is a defined character from a set of Polish novels, and therefore a completely different beast than your standard self-insert RPG protagonist.

(Both of which you would know, had you played the games. So once again my advice is to actually play the games vs. rely on second-hand information.)

Modifié par DaveExclamationMarkYognaut, 03 juillet 2011 - 03:05 .

[slimgrin]

Siansonea II wrote...

Whenever anyone points to the Witcher 2 as an example of a "mature" way of handling romance, I just have to laugh. It's only "mature" if you're a 16-year-old male virgin. Anyone with any real maturity realizes it's just an opportunity for the developers to showcase nude female T&A for teen boys to ****** to. Shyeah, real mature. I certainly hope BioWare doesn't take a page from Witcher's 2's book, or should I say magazine.

Now nudity doesn't bother me per se. I thought the nudity in Heavy Rain and L.A. Noire wasn't gratuitous at all, and was handled appropriately. But Triss was Female Objectification 101, and Geralt was Douchebag Male Self-Insert 101, and that combo does NOT appeal to me. Whatever redeeming qualities that game may or may not have will be forever unknown to me, after seeing the much-lauded "romance" scenes that were the talk of the town around here—no thanks. If that's what passes for mature to you kiddies, you can keep it, and keep at it. A well-done romance something should engage your emotions, not your libido. And honestly I can't think of anything more ridiculous and boring that watching two digital characters humping.

If you've truly played it, I can't fully disagree with your take. I've an inkling of your tastes and I'm pretty sure The Witcher wouldn't be to your liking.

The thread's about how Bioware can improve their renditions of romance and its inevitable conclusion. I just hope that conclusion doesn't include underwear or body armor. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 juillet 2011 - 03:19 .

[Comsky159]

mrsph wrote...

You can be artistic without showing pixelated nudity.

The one that showed the most skin in Mass Effect 2 (Miranda) was already arguably the weakest anyway.

Agreed.

[Elessara]

I've played both the Witcher 1 and 2 and yeah I have to agree that the relationships in them are very shallow. The "romances" have hardly any depth to them and most of the sex comes from random, meaningless encounters. In the 2nd game most of the time that means hiring a prostitute. How many times do you actually have a conversation with your LI?

The romance is only relevant if you actually care about your supposed LI. As I recall, the game gave me little reason to care about Triss other than telling me I should care about her and even forcing me into being in a relationship with her in the 2nd game. I have almost no background information about Triss - I know little enough about her or her beliefs or her reasons for doing things. Honestly I could have foregone the sex scenes with the hookers. I'd rather have known more about Triss herself.

[Comsky159]

mauro2222 wrote...

Stupid society in which sex is taboo
For the love of god teach your goddam sons what is sex, to use protection, and the responsability of having sex.
It should be permitted to have sex at the first sign of sexual maturity, like at the age of 13 or 14 years old. An example are the natives and tribes, they have sex when they enter teenage, they don´t have any prejudices for nude bodies, they don´t get "hot" by seeing someone naked, they don´t have bondage, voyeur, sadomasochism. For them the breasts, the ass, are look as any other part of the body, in our case are something directly connected with sex.

I'd advise you to leave civilisation and go and live in the anarchistic, obscure tribal society's which are obviously more to your taste. You can also kill freely to solve disputes, likely watch half your children starve to death and probably die young of some horrible disease.

Incredibly narrow-minded.

[slimgrin]

They don't have to show nipples and such. But if a romance is to go anywhere, they should leave clothing out of it, even if it's just a figure seated on a bed in the nude, viewed from behind, so that we're all safe from the dangerous views.

Showing Shepard cuddling in body armor was just lazy on their part.

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 juillet 2011 - 03:19 .

[Elessara]

Sorry, got off topic in my last post.

Romance isn't all about sex but does include physical intimacy. A sex scene of some sort is appropriate as long as it's well done. Nudity is not required. Cuddling in body armor is rather silly though.

[Siansonea]

slimgrin wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Whenever anyone points to the Witcher 2 as an example of a "mature" way of handling romance, I just have to laugh. It's only "mature" if you're a 16-year-old male virgin. Anyone with any real maturity realizes it's just an opportunity for the developers to showcase nude female T&A for teen boys to ****** to. Shyeah, real mature. I certainly hope BioWare doesn't take a page from Witcher's 2's book, or should I say magazine.

Now nudity doesn't bother me per se. I thought the nudity in Heavy Rain and L.A. Noire wasn't gratuitous at all, and was handled appropriately. But Triss was Female Objectification 101, and Geralt was Douchebag Male Self-Insert 101, and that combo does NOT appeal to me. Whatever redeeming qualities that game may or may not have will be forever unknown to me, after seeing the much-lauded "romance" scenes that were the talk of the town around here—no thanks. If that's what passes for mature to you kiddies, you can keep it, and keep at it. A well-done romance something should engage your emotions, not your libido. And honestly I can't think of anything more ridiculous and boring that watching two digital characters humping.

If you've truly played it, I can't fully disagree with your take. I've an inkling of your tastes, and I'm pretty sure The Witcher wouldn't be to your liking.

The thread's about how Bioware can improve their renditions of romance and its inevitable conclusion. I just hope that conclusion doesn't include underwear or body armor. 

Yeah—underwear and clothed dry-humping is a silly attempt at PG-13ing the game. Definitely don't want THAT either. BioWare needs to treat the subject maturely, which means using writing, editing, and cinematics appropriately. That doesn't mean being prudish by keeping everyone covered up, but it also doesn't mean having a boobiepalooza either. The romance scenes should show intimacy of the grown-up sort, two people baring their souls to each other, not two people grinding on each other to get their rocks off.

Honestly it's going to be a real balancing act to get it right. The tone of the ME1 cutscenes was really good, but the scenes felt very truncated, there should have been more to say, and there should have been more of a denouement, hearing the two characters say things to each other that they wouldn't say to anyone else. They should be heartfelt.

In some cases, anyway. Shepard isn't just one character. And each relationship is different. Big emotional scenes aren't going to play out the same way with Shepard, and they're not going to play out with each LI. To me, Shepard with Liara, Ashley or Kaidan should really stress the romantic and shared history aspect of the relationship. A few funny banter moments, some caressing and kissing, maybe some tasteful nudity if it can be done without looking silly. With Miranda and Jacob, well, Shepard is only going to get so far emotionally with either of them, both of them are very guarded emotionally, so a big emotional scene wouldn't seem as realistic. Those relationships seem to be much more physical in nature than other relationships, so a bit more of an emphasis on heavy flirting and more demonstrative physicality is appropriate for them. Jack's and Thane's scenes should be pretty emotional. Jack is opening herself up as she never has before, she's literally never been with somebody like Shepard, so she's got to be freaking out a little, and that should show in the scene. Her insecurities and doubts should come up, and should be assuaged by Shepard through words and romantic gestures. Thane is dying, and this is his last hurrah before he goes. That's got to be some heavy stuff. Garrus and Tali—well, I just don't know. They've got history with Shepard, and that should be a part of it, probably the biggest part of it. But they're also aliens, and I kind of hit a wall in my mind with alien romances. Somebody else will have to suggest ways to really make the alien romances work well.

[AngelicMachinery]

mauro2222 wrote...

Stupid society in which sex is taboo
For the love of god teach your goddam sons what is sex, to use protection, and the responsability of having sex.
It should be permitted to have sex at the first sign of sexual maturity, like at the age of 13 or 14 years old. An example are the natives and tribes, they have sex when they enter teenage, they don´t have any prejudices for nude bodies, they don´t get "hot" by seeing someone naked, they don´t have bondage, voyeur, sadomasochism. For them the breasts, the ass, are look as any other part of the body, in our case are something directly connected with sex.

Why the hell are you ragging on bondage?  Come on man,  you can't argue against the repression of sexuality and than start moaning about fetishes.