104 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghost1041]

I've been wanting to try a rivalry friendship or romance, how does she act differently in a rivalry? Does she still want to run around and pet the demon trying to eat her? Thanks

[bleetman]

In the interests of being vague so as to avoid spoiling it, rivalry path for Merrill involves Hawke trying to save her from herself, sometimes forcibly, and her being understandably somewhat angry about it for a while. She'll give up trying to bargain with demons eventually, but not before her act three quest.

[jlb524]

I'd say she acts the same (for the most part)...the major difference is in her relationship with Hawke (whether friendship or romance).

[sphinxess]

bleetman wrote...

In the interests of being vague so as to avoid spoiling it, rivalry path for Merrill involves Hawke trying to save her from herself, sometimes forcibly, and her being understandably somewhat angry about it for a while. She'll give up trying to bargain with demons eventually, but not before her act three quest.

Just pretend your her protective parent and you will do fine..

Modifié par sphinxess, 02 juillet 2011 - 06:45 .

[Mr.House]

In the rival path you take a more active role in protecting her from the demon and the path, this is a path for Hawkes who are anti blood magic or just plain don't like it and don't want to see Merrill hurt. You are still friends(and lovers if you romance her) but you have just made it clear you don't approve of her working on the mirror.

Also Merrill likes to be snarky sometimes on the rival path

[Ghost1041]

I haven't really had much interest in friendship or rivalry with her. Mostly because her personal quest chain being bugged as hell so dialogue was pointless to me. Thanks for the replies.

[LobselVith8]

Ghost1041 wrote...

I've been wanting to try a rivalry friendship or romance, how does she act differently in a rivalry? Does she still want to run around and pet the demon trying to eat her? Thanks

The difference is that in Friendship, Hawke trusts Merrill with her quest with the Eluvian and her use of blood magic, while in Rivalry, Hawke thinks he knows better than Merrill about the Eluvian and has disdain for Merrill using blood magic. It's an issue of trust - does the human Hawke trust Merrill with ancient elven technology and magic that he's ignorant about, or does he tell her what to do and make her conform to his perspective?

[bleetman]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Hawke thinks he knows better than Merrill about the Eluvian and has disdain for Merrill using blood magic.

Much as I don't really want to get into yet another debate over this, if everybody respected Merrill's wishes and supported her efforts with Audacity, she'd be dead.

[TEWR]

Mr.House wrote...

In the rival path you take a more active role in protecting her from the demon and the path, this is a path for Hawkes who are anti blood magic or just plain don't like it and don't want to see Merrill hurt. You are still friends(and lovers if you romance her) but you have just made it clear you don't approve of her working on the mirror.

Also Merrill likes to be snarky sometimes on the rival path

Isn't she snarky sometimes on the friendship path too?

[TEWR]

bleetman wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Hawke thinks he knows better than Merrill about the Eluvian and has disdain for Merrill using blood magic.

Much as I don't really want to get into yet another debate over this, if everybody respected Merrill's wishes and supported her efforts with Audacity, she'd be dead.

No, she wouldn't. The Eluvian links to a place beyond the Fade and beyond Thedas, and Marethari had established in the short story that Audactiy had been trapped for centuries in that idol and would continue to be trapped.

The only way for it to be freed was through a powerful magic spell, and Merrill's reaction to it being freed leads me to believe she wasn't going to free it.

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

In the rival path you take a more active role in protecting her from the demon and the path, this is a path for Hawkes who are anti blood magic or just plain don't like it and don't want to see Merrill hurt. You are still friends(and lovers if you romance her) but you have just made it clear you don't approve of her working on the mirror.

Also Merrill likes to be snarky sometimes on the rival path

Isn't she snarky sometimes on the friendship path too?

Nah there's one part where she says 'Are you checking up on me, you probaly think I'm gonig to summon a pack of demons."

[TEWR]

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

In the rival path you take a more active role in protecting her from the demon and the path, this is a path for Hawkes who are anti blood magic or just plain don't like it and don't want to see Merrill hurt. You are still friends(and lovers if you romance her) but you have just made it clear you don't approve of her working on the mirror.

Also Merrill likes to be snarky sometimes on the rival path

Isn't she snarky sometimes on the friendship path too?

Nah there's one part where she says 'Are you checking up on me, you probaly think I'm gonig to summon a pack of demons."

As much as I'd love to see snarky Merrill, I can't bring myself to do a rivalry with her. It feels so wrong.

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

bleetman wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Hawke thinks he knows better than Merrill about the Eluvian and has disdain for Merrill using blood magic.

Much as I don't really want to get into yet another debate over this, if everybody respected Merrill's wishes and supported her efforts with Audacity, she'd be dead.

No, she wouldn't. The Eluvian links to a place beyond the Fade and beyond Thedas, and Marethari had established in the short story that Audactiy had been trapped for centuries in that idol and would continue to be trapped.

The only way for it to be freed was through a powerful magic spell, and Merrill's reaction to it being freed leads me to believe she wasn't going to free it.

In addition, Marethari never even claimed Merrill was in danger from conversing with Audacity - the Keeper speculated that the Eluvian was how Audacity would be able to escape from his ancient prison. There's no evidence that Merill would be dead if Marethari didn't endanger her entire clan and if Hawke doesn't try to force her to conform to his views, particularly when she's studied the Eluvian from lore and the shard while Hawke is largely ignorant about what it is.

[Mr.House]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The difference is that in Friendship, Hawke trusts Merrill with her quest with the Eluvian and her use of blood magic, while in Rivalry, Hawke thinks he knows better than Merrill about the Eluvian and has disdain for Merrill using blood magic. It's an issue of trust - does the human Hawke trust Merrill with ancient elven technology and magic that he's ignorant about, or does he tell her what to do and make her conform to his perspective?

Wrong, it's the fact that Hawke could be anti blood magic and does not trust that the demon was being true to Merrill, which becomes clear when the demon attacks Merrill and Hawke instead of trying to tell Merrill the Keeper is wrong. Don't be bias now Lobsel. It has nothing to do with Hawke thinknig she/he is right.

[RangerSG]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

bleetman wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Hawke thinks he knows better than Merrill about the Eluvian and has disdain for Merrill using blood magic.

Much as I don't really want to get into yet another debate over this, if everybody respected Merrill's wishes and supported her efforts with Audacity, she'd be dead.

No, she wouldn't. The Eluvian links to a place beyond the Fade and beyond Thedas, and Marethari had established in the short story that Audactiy had been trapped for centuries in that idol and would continue to be trapped.

The only way for it to be freed was through a powerful magic spell, and Merrill's reaction to it being freed leads me to believe she wasn't going to free it.

I agree. I think Merill knew the boundaries she was willing to work within, and then brought adequate precaution (Hawke) to ensure the demon couldn't profit by freeing itself through her anyway. It's more a matter of Marethari being an overprotective parent, IMHO. And Hawke too, if you go rivalry. That said, it's an interesting spin, and it 'can' be done without being demeaning to her.

[Complistic]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Ghost1041 wrote...

I've been wanting to try a rivalry friendship or romance, how does she act differently in a rivalry? Does she still want to run around and pet the demon trying to eat her? Thanks

The difference is that in Friendship, Hawke trusts Merrill with her quest with the Eluvian and her use of blood magic, while in Rivalry, Hawke thinks he knows better than Merrill about the Eluvian and has disdain for Merrill using blood magic. It's an issue of trust - does the human Hawke trust Merrill with ancient elven technology and magic that he's ignorant about, or does he tell her what to do and make her conform to his perspective?

A hawke that actually cares about Merrill wouldn't let her destroy herself. Which is basically what she's doing.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

In
the rival path you take a more active role in protecting her from the
demon and the path, this is a path for Hawkes who are anti blood magic
or just plain don't like it and don't want to see Merrill hurt. You are
still friends(and lovers if you romance her) but you have just made it
clear you don't approve of her working on the mirror.

Also Merrill likes to be snarky sometimes on the rival path

Isn't she snarky sometimes on the friendship path too?

Nah there's one part where she says 'Are you checking up on me, you probaly think I'm gonig to summon a pack of demons."

As much as I'd love to see snarky Merrill, I can't bring myself to do a rivalry with her. It feels so wrong.

You really should try it. I'm doing one now and it does feel just so much better. She does get mad at first but she desperately needs someone to watch out for her.

Modifié par Complistic, 02 juillet 2011 - 07:19 .

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

In the rival path you take a more active role in protecting her from the demon and the path, this is a path for Hawkes who are anti blood magic or just plain don't like it and don't want to see Merrill hurt. You are still friends(and lovers if you romance her) but you have just made it clear you don't approve of her working on the mirror.

Also Merrill likes to be snarky sometimes on the rival path

Isn't she snarky sometimes on the friendship path too?

Nah there's one part where she says 'Are you checking up on me, you probaly think I'm gonig to summon a pack of demons."

As much as I'd love to see snarky Merrill, I can't bring myself to do a rivalry with her. It feels so wrong.

Not really, I have my own theory on what the demon wanted, and like any demon it got too cocky and stupid.

"The Keeper just told you my true plan Merrill! So instead of trying to tell you she was lieing and I will help you, I WILL KILL YOU!!!!!!" *headdesk* Really?

[LobselVith8]

Mr.House wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The difference is that in Friendship, Hawke trusts Merrill with her quest with the Eluvian and her use of blood magic, while in Rivalry, Hawke thinks he knows better than Merrill about the Eluvian and has disdain for Merrill using blood magic. It's an issue of trust - does the human Hawke trust Merrill with ancient elven technology and magic that he's ignorant about, or does he tell her what to do and make her conform to his perspective?

Wrong, it's the fact that Hawke could be anti blood magic and does not trust that the demon was being true to Merrill, which becomes clear when the demon attacks Merrill and Hawke instead of trying to tell Merrill the Keeper is wrong. Don't be bias now Lobsel. It has nothing to do with Hawke thinknig she/he is right.

Merrill only learned blood magic from Audacity - Gaider addressed that she studied lore and had extrapolated information from the shard when she was building the Eluvian. She learned blood magic to cleanse the shard - since she isn't corrupted like the elves in the Elven Ruins who were infected with the taint because of the broken shards of the Eluvian, Merrill clearly cleansed the shard of its corruption. Hawke telling Merrill that she shouldn't build a device that he's 100% ignorant about is thinking that he's right, which is ludicrious.

[RangerSG]

Complistic wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Ghost1041 wrote...

I've been wanting to try a rivalry friendship or romance, how does she act differently in a rivalry? Does she still want to run around and pet the demon trying to eat her? Thanks

The difference is that in Friendship, Hawke trusts Merrill with her quest with the Eluvian and her use of blood magic, while in Rivalry, Hawke thinks he knows better than Merrill about the Eluvian and has disdain for Merrill using blood magic. It's an issue of trust - does the human Hawke trust Merrill with ancient elven technology and magic that he's ignorant about, or does he tell her what to do and make her conform to his perspective?

A hawke that actually cares about Merrill wouldn't let her destroy herself. Which is basically what she's doing.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

In
the rival path you take a more active role in protecting her from the
demon and the path, this is a path for Hawkes who are anti blood magic
or just plain don't like it and don't want to see Merrill hurt. You are
still friends(and lovers if you romance her) but you have just made it
clear you don't approve of her working on the mirror.

Also Merrill likes to be snarky sometimes on the rival path

Isn't she snarky sometimes on the friendship path too?

Nah there's one part where she says 'Are you checking up on me, you probaly think I'm gonig to summon a pack of demons."

As much as I'd love to see snarky Merrill, I can't bring myself to do a rivalry with her. It feels so wrong.

You really should try it. I'm doing one now and it really does feel just so much better. She does get mad at first but she really needs someone to watch out for her.

Only if you think she's wrong about the Eluvian. And she has more knowledge about it than the PC, and probably Marethari as well. Could she be? Perhaps. Does that excuse Marethari's whisperings? 

[Ghost1041]

Honestly I want her to fix the mirror, so my Dalish warden could come back and smash her face into it.

[Mr.House]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The difference is that in Friendship, Hawke trusts Merrill with her quest with the Eluvian and her use of blood magic, while in Rivalry, Hawke thinks he knows better than Merrill about the Eluvian and has disdain for Merrill using blood magic. It's an issue of trust - does the human Hawke trust Merrill with ancient elven technology and magic that he's ignorant about, or does he tell her what to do and make her conform to his perspective?

Wrong, it's the fact that Hawke could be anti blood magic and does not trust that the demon was being true to Merrill, which becomes clear when the demon attacks Merrill and Hawke instead of trying to tell Merrill the Keeper is wrong. Don't be bias now Lobsel. It has nothing to do with Hawke thinknig she/he is right.

Merrill only learned blood magic from Audacity - Gaider addressed that she studied lore and had extrapolated information from the shard when she was building the Eluvian. She learned blood magic to cleanse the shard - since she isn't corrupted like the elves in the Elven Ruins who were infected with the taint because of the broken shards of the Eluvian, Merrill clearly cleansed the shard of its corruption. Hawke telling Merrill that she shouldn't build a device that he's 100% ignorant about is thinking that he's right, which is ludicrious.

You still think the demon was true to it's word, which is not the case when the demon decided to try to kill Merrill AFTER the Keeper told her everything. The demon wanted the Keeper, it did not care for Merrill or the mirror, it tricked Merrill and used her to weaken the Keeper so he could have a body, it worked but the Keeper manged to screw him over, if he really wanted to help Merrill he would not have tried to kill her, it's simple as that.

I would agree with you if the demon tried to convince Merrill the Keeper was lieing, but that does not happen.

[jlb524]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

In the rival path you take a more active role in protecting her from the demon and the path, this is a path for Hawkes who are anti blood magic or just plain don't like it and don't want to see Merrill hurt. You are still friends(and lovers if you romance her) but you have just made it clear you don't approve of her working on the mirror.

Also Merrill likes to be snarky sometimes on the rival path

Isn't she snarky sometimes on the friendship path too?

Nah there's one part where she says 'Are you checking up on me, you probaly think I'm gonig to summon a pack of demons."

As much as I'd love to see snarky Merrill, I can't bring myself to do a rivalry with her. It feels so wrong.

She's a bit snarky in general, regardless (to others at least).  Not so much to Hawke on the friend path...

Unless this counts

Merrill:  You're beautiful and clever and you never make any mistakes...I don't deserve you.
Hawke (sarcastic):  Perhaps you don't, but I deserve you.  Did you think of that?
Merrill:  Did you call the Maker a dirty name, then.

[LobselVith8]

[quote]Complistic wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

The difference is that in Friendship, Hawke trusts Merrill with her quest with the Eluvian and her use of blood magic, while in Rivalry, Hawke thinks he knows better than Merrill about the Eluvian and has disdain for Merrill using blood magic. It's an issue of trust - does the human Hawke trust Merrill with ancient elven technology and magic that he's ignorant about, or does he tell her what to do and make her conform to his perspective?[/quote]

A hawke that actually cares about Merrill wouldn't let her destroy herself. Which is basically what she's doing. [/quote]

How is Merrill destroying herself in an endeavour that Hawke doesn't understand? He's human, not Dalish - he isn't informed about the Eluvian when he hasn't studied the shard or the lore like she has.

[quote]Complistic wrote...

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

As much as I'd love to see snarky Merrill, I can't bring myself to do a rivalry with her. It feels so wrong.[/quote]

You really should try it. I'm doing one now and it does feel just so much better. She does get mad at first but she desperately needs someone to watch out for her. [/quote]

Merrill doesn't desperately need someone to think he knows more about Dalish culture than she does.

[quote]RangerSG wrote...

[quote]Complistic wrote...

As much as I'd love to see snarky Merrill, I can't bring myself to do a rivalry with her. It feels so wrong.[/quote]

You really should try it. I'm doing one now and it really does feel just so much better. She does get mad at first but she really needs someone to watch out for her. [/quote]

Only if you think she's wrong about the Eluvian. And she has more knowledge about it than the PC, and probably Marethari as well. Could she be? Perhaps. Does that excuse Marethari's whisperings?  [/quote]

You're likely right - Merrill has studied it, while Marethari wanted nothing to do with it based on her own speculation. Marethari made it clear she thought the ancient elves wanted to abandon the Eluvian, while Merrill studied lore and gathered information from the shard. I'd put my trust in Merrill - who is informed - over Marethari, who is going by her speculation on the issue.

[congealeddgtllvr]

RangerSG wrote...

That said, it's an interesting spin, and it 'can' be done without being demeaning to her.

Well, that's being more generous than a lot of people.  

As for all the people who know for a fact that Merrill was never in any danger, can you explain why she was worried about becoming an abomination herself by the end?  

[sphinxess]

RangerSG wrote...

Complistic wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Ghost1041 wrote...

I've been wanting to try a rivalry friendship or romance, how does she act differently in a rivalry? Does she still want to run around and pet the demon trying to eat her? Thanks

The difference is that in Friendship, Hawke trusts Merrill with her quest with the Eluvian and her use of blood magic, while in Rivalry, Hawke thinks he knows better than Merrill about the Eluvian and has disdain for Merrill using blood magic. It's an issue of trust - does the human Hawke trust Merrill with ancient elven technology and magic that he's ignorant about, or does he tell her what to do and make her conform to his perspective?

A hawke that actually cares about Merrill wouldn't let her destroy herself. Which is basically what she's doing.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

In
the rival path you take a more active role in protecting her from the
demon and the path, this is a path for Hawkes who are anti blood magic
or just plain don't like it and don't want to see Merrill hurt. You are
still friends(and lovers if you romance her) but you have just made it
clear you don't approve of her working on the mirror.

Also Merrill likes to be snarky sometimes on the rival path

Isn't she snarky sometimes on the friendship path too?

Nah there's one part where she says 'Are you checking up on me, you probaly think I'm gonig to summon a pack of demons."

As much as I'd love to see snarky Merrill, I can't bring myself to do a rivalry with her. It feels so wrong.

You really should try it. I'm doing one now and it really does feel just so much better. She does get mad at first but she really needs someone to watch out for her.

Only if you think she's wrong about the Eluvian. And she has more knowledge about it than the PC, and probably Marethari as well. Could she be? Perhaps. Does that excuse Marethari's whisperings? 

I don't see how you can have a relationship with someone that treats you like a child. Merrill is the one that knows the most about the mirror and feels its a acceptable risk.