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[sphinxess]

bleetman wrote...

How Merrill views her chances against Audacity changes phenomenally over the years. That she asks Hawke along in the event she needs to be euthanized is exactly what I'm talking about whenever I say that even she's not convinced of her ability to resist by that point. It's not as if that's a stance she's always adopting: she acknowledges the danger from the start, sure, but is adamant that she's able to defend herself. By the time act three rolls around, she's requesting an escort because she doesn't trust in her ability to resist anymore.

I can't speak to the potential benefit to the elven people. I'm not even fully convinced we know enough about what the Eluvian actually does.

What I usually hate at this point in the argument is the Merrill side can't win - if she brings Hawke the story goes Merrill expects to fail - if Merrill didn't bring Hawke the story would go Merrill is so naive. How high a chance of possession should she have in order to decide to bring Hawke along as backup?

I would bring Hawke even if I thought it was only a 1/1000 chance to be possessed not the 50/50 that people seem to imply she must actually feel her chances are.

Night Terrors:

Pride Demon:  Merrill overrides Fenris who overides Varric
Desire Demon: Isabela overides Avaline

Anders will attack you if you give the boy to Sloth
Sebastian will always refuse to go in.

Modifié par sphinxess, 03 juillet 2011 - 03:14 .

[LobselVith8]

FieryDove wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Everyone fails. It has nothing to do with Merrill and everything to do with making Hawke seem awesome and infallible.

Not everyone. There were several times I took Anders, Fenris and Merrill. M betrayed me no matter what the meter was at. Fenris and Anders never did.

Aveline and Isabela fall to the Desire Demon, while Merrill, Fenris, and Varric fall to the Pride Demon. Only one of the companions will fall to a specific demon. Fenris will betray Hawke if Merrill isn't taken to the Fade.

[bleetman]

sphinxess wrote...

How high a chance of possession should she have in order to decide to bring Hawke along as backup?

But that's not the thing. The thing is, risk of possession was always possible with regards to making deals with demons, both hers and the ones you encounter throughout the game, but she largely advocates at least hearing them out to begin with. In her own words, "That won't happen. I know how to defend myself".

Contrast that with her dialogue regarding her act three quest. I wouldn't say she expects to fail (I mean, why go in the first place if that's the case), but that she's actually acknowledging just how risky the whole thing is. It's not that she's suddenly in danger of possession, it's that she's lost her confidence regarding her ability to avoid it happening. She's essentially learned enough to realise just how little she actually knows.

Modifié par bleetman, 03 juillet 2011 - 03:22 .

[In Exile]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
What I meant was that demons try to trick people, but if a person like Merrill, Hawke, or the Warden also tricks them, they're screwed. That's what Merrill tells Hawke is possible. That you can work with a demon and come out all right, so long as you're careful and know what you're doing.

Hawke can get information from both the Hunger Abomination in the Primeval Thaig and Torpor, and then kill them.

The Warden can trick Kitty into thinking he'll let her possess Amalia.

But in all these cases, how have you framed the conflict?

Hawke versus the demon. Merril versus the demon.

What if it never was about Hawke or Merril? What if it was about someone else?

Audacity used Merril to play Marethari, and Audacity did it by using Merril's lack of social grace against her.

Merril's use of blood magic was dangerous because she never bothered to remove herself from her pedestal; she never thought for a second that she was irrelevant. And that was her Pride, and how Audacity won freedom.

[RangerSG]

In Exile wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
What I meant was that demons try to trick people, but if a person like Merrill, Hawke, or the Warden also tricks them, they're screwed. That's what Merrill tells Hawke is possible. That you can work with a demon and come out all right, so long as you're careful and know what you're doing.

Hawke can get information from both the Hunger Abomination in the Primeval Thaig and Torpor, and then kill them.

The Warden can trick Kitty into thinking he'll let her possess Amalia.

But in all these cases, how have you framed the conflict?

Hawke versus the demon. Merril versus the demon.

What if it never was about Hawke or Merril? What if it was about someone else?

Audacity used Merril to play Marethari, and Audacity did it by using Merril's lack of social grace against her.

Merril's use of blood magic was dangerous because she never bothered to remove herself from her pedestal; she never thought for a second that she was irrelevant. And that was her Pride, and how Audacity won freedom.

And I'll say again, I think you're overreaching. Audacity wanted out. He was willing to take either one of them, and play them off each other to do it.

It had nothing to do with "lack of social graces" and everything to do with his ability to play on Marethari's fears after teaching Merrill the most dangerous magics in the DA Universe with the promise of future dealing. He set the up so Marethari's overprotectiveness would breed resentment and distrust in Merrill. Then it was just a matter of seeing which one cracked.

Turned out to be Marethari. Not because Merrill lacked social graces. But because Marethari was so arrogant as to endanger her own clan for the sake of an exiled apprentice. Merrill's "Social graces" or lack thereof has legitimately nothing to do with Marethari's choice.

Audacity isn't after 'one' of them. He's after 'either' of them.