163 réponses à ce sujet

[Deganis76]

erynnar wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

It's not about voiced character/silent character.

Ery is just talking about a Geralt/Hawke thing. Geralt is a fully formed character with his own problems, his strengths and weaknesses. Hawke is semi formed, yet not fully. To a lot of people, this means he lacks the depth of a fully formed character, but also lacks the freedom of a blank slate.

Shepard is actually in a similar position, but gets away with it because's (s)he's cooler.

Yeah, Shep gets away with it by being an epic badass. Where as Hawke is ineffectual, and boring. Hell, her companions like the dog better, and I don't blame them. I don't even think I could write fanfic and make Hawke better, not unless I made it so that she actually was able to accomplish things (like saving her <spoiler>, stopping <spoiler>, etc.).

Shepard, at this point, is an iconic character in video game history.

[erynnar]

Deganis76 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

It's not about voiced character/silent character.

Ery is just talking about a Geralt/Hawke thing. Geralt is a fully formed character with his own problems, his strengths and weaknesses. Hawke is semi formed, yet not fully. To a lot of people, this means he lacks the depth of a fully formed character, but also lacks the freedom of a blank slate.

Shepard is actually in a similar position, but gets away with it because's (s)he's cooler.

Yeah, Shep gets away with it by being an epic badass. Where as Hawke is ineffectual, and boring. Hell, her companions like the dog better, and I don't blame them. I don't even think I could write fanfic and make Hawke better, not unless I made it so that she actually was able to accomplish things (like saving her <spoiler>, stopping <spoiler>, etc.).

Shepard, at this point, is an iconic character in video game history.

Something Hawke will never be accused of.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

mrcrusty wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Yeah, Shep gets away with it by being an epic badass. Where as Hawke is ineffectual, and boring. Hell, her
companions like the dog better, and I don't blame them. I don't even think I could write fanfic and make Hawke better, not unless I made it so that she actually was able to accomplish things (like saving her <spoiler>, stopping <spoiler>, etc.).

Funnily enough, for me, what makes Hawke ineffectual and boring is that for most of the game's timeline, (s)he apparently takes one long nap.

The stuff you're mentioning is the plot railroading you and I don't mind that too much, except in how it was presented.

"Choose, Champion!"

"I don't want to get involved, I just want to keep my friends safe so we can all leave this hellhole. So, I won't choose."

"BUT THOU MUST!"

*thinks it over seriously*

"I believe that x would be best for Kirkwall in both the short term and the long term, therefore, I choose x."

"Okay, now do this, exactly the same as if you chose y."

"But I chos-"

"IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU CHOSE!"

That is understandably annoying.

Haha this is the problem with the whole design philosophy where they base the game on a single playthrough. There's a huge tempation for them to remove consequences from choices and hope you don't notice haha.

[DRTJR]

I must be weird but I like Hawke because if you want (s)he can be pretty despicable if you want with out going into the cartoonish levels I thought Shep Could. DA:O was better in that you could be a complete thug and still be the Hero of Ferelden at the end.even if you go for a LG type Champion/Warden you feel better because Your taking a relativity hi-er ground than shep.

[erynnar]

mrcrusty wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Yeah, Shep gets away with it by being an epic badass. Where as Hawke is ineffectual, and boring. Hell, her
companions like the dog better, and I don't blame them. I don't even think I could write fanfic and make Hawke better, not unless I made it so that she actually was able to accomplish things (like saving her <spoiler>, stopping <spoiler>, etc.).

Funnily enough, for me, what makes Hawke ineffectual and boring is that for most of the game's timeline, (s)he apparently takes one long nap.

The stuff you're mentioning is the plot railroading you and I don't mind that too much, except in how it was presented.

"Choose, Champion!"

"I don't want to get involved, I just want to keep my friends safe so we can all leave this hellhole. So, I won't choose."

"BUT THOU MUST!"

*thinks it over seriously*

"I believe that x would be best for Kirkwall in both the short term and the long term, therefore, I choose x."

"Okay, now do this, exactly the same as if you chose y."

"But I chos-"

"IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU CHOSE!"

That is understandably annoying.

Yep! You and I have the same problem! The way you put it made me laugh so hard I was crying!

[KLUME777]

kromify wrote...

HowlHowl wrote...

kromify wrote...

alistair red blooded? i didn't see that coming...

imo people hate not having origin stories. hawke is the best viable target

I can agree on that front. There's no reason for BIOWARE to have forced Hawke to be a human from Lothering but to make him/her more like Shepard from ME. And that is a terrible reason.

edit: And Alistair is totally red-blooded. Born a bastard, raised to be pious within reasonable grounds, hates luxury and being treated like anything but a normal warrior, has an affinity for light sarcasm despite answering to the same folksy supersititions as everyone else. Even his hair! He's basically Nathan Drake in armor. Average white guy on every level.

they did it because it suited the story and to save time, not make hawke like shep.

nothing you described i would attribute to red bloodedness...  

Then how would you describe red bloodedness?

I see him as a fairly red blooded Fereldon.

Modifié par KLUME777, 07 juillet 2011 - 03:30 .

[KLUME777]

Persephone wrote...

por favor wrote...

How can you "make" someone a bad character if you only have THREE dialogue options? It's not like you have room to personalize Hawke in the first place.

Aside from that, Hawke is a servile chore boy.

dun liek.

DAO didn't really offer so many more options, in fact, in DAO, clicking on THREE different responses in the same dialogue (Reloading) led to NPCs saying the exact same thing, no matter WHAT the Warden said. 

Those are called flavour options, their there to give your character personality. Your character is getting to the point, but getting to the same point in a different way, to suit your chosen personality. Thats a good thing.

[KLUME777]

Vicious wrote...

Hawke was the best thing about DA2.

If he was transplanted into DA:O, it'd be GOTY material and people would love Hawke the way they love pre-made characters like Shepard and Ezio Auditore.

Sadly, DA2 is simply lacking in every way compared to DA:O. But hey, live and learn. I predict DA3 will be more like Origins, but with a preset protagonist. [since Bioware really seems to like the cinematic approach]

I much disliked Ezio, but then again, i disliked Assassins Creed (way too overrated).

I like Shepherd, but i hate it how Bioware tries to emulate him into their other games. If Mass Effect didn't exist, for whatever reason, do you think Bioware would change DA2's protoganist into what it is?

[Persephone]

KLUME777 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

por favor wrote...

How can you "make" someone a bad character if you only have THREE dialogue options? It's not like you have room to personalize Hawke in the first place.

Aside from that, Hawke is a servile chore boy.

dun liek.

DAO didn't really offer so many more options, in fact, in DAO, clicking on THREE different responses in the same dialogue (Reloading) led to NPCs saying the exact same thing, no matter WHAT the Warden said. 

Those are called flavour options, their there to give your character personality. Your character is getting to the point, but getting to the same point in a different way, to suit your chosen personality. Thats a good thing.

To me it's a waste of space and utterly unrealistic. Gave me some huge WTF? moments. But hey, whatever floats your gondola.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Persephone wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

por favor wrote...

How can you "make" someone a bad character if you only have THREE dialogue options? It's not like you have room to personalize Hawke in the first place.

Aside from that, Hawke is a servile chore boy.

dun liek.

DAO didn't really offer so many more options, in fact, in DAO, clicking on THREE different responses in the same dialogue (Reloading) led to NPCs saying the exact same thing, no matter WHAT the Warden said. 

Those are called flavour options, their there to give your character personality. Your character is getting to the point, but getting to the same point in a different way, to suit your chosen personality. Thats a good thing.

To me it's a waste of space and utterly unrealistic. Gave me some huge WTF? moments. But hey, whatever floats your gondola.

Depends on the context, Perse.

"What can change the nature of a man?"

Ideally, flavour dialog should be limited, but then you'd see me arguing for 5-10 dialog options that all lead to noticeable differences in conversation.

But I think something like a Karmic or Reputation mechanic could be particularly useful in making "flavour options" seem more meaningful. Also, companion disposition. For example, talking trash/being aggressive could get a bunch of merchants hostile through disposition or reputation mechanics. You still do their quests, but you've got prices marked up as a result of your bastardhood.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 07 juillet 2011 - 01:58 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I hope someone from bioware read these comments and tell them what is not so good for a RPG.
- No boring, ineffective Hero
- No bad timeline, bad conversation options etc.

[lichtdwarf]

i did like my hawke but that was because i played him with my morales. but yes, the conversation wheel didn't work out. which it never did IMO. adn i enjoyed the speak system in DA:O way more. but i do like my hawke.

[Sleek]

I truly beleive that people at Bioware are working as hard as they can. Im not sure about the DLC , but it seems like the fans are pissed and that no matter what Bioware does they cant do anything right . Imagine how frustrating it must be for them to read thousands of negative , somtimes disrespectful responces. All staff at Bioware should take a vaction for a year , come back and start fresh.

[Gleym]

Here's the main issue. A good Western RPG like Baldur's Gate, The Witcher 2, the original two Fallouts and such play like the latter. DA2 plays like the former.