281 réponses à ce sujet

[Raiil]

Or, in other words, what knightnblu said. +25

[Iakus]

SO here's a question:

How will the romance between Shep/VS compare to continuing romance with Liara? Or the continuing ME2 romances? Will Shepard have to "win them back" as well?

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

knightnblu wrote...
It is also why romance is so dicey, because romance relies on a strong connection created between the player and the virtual character.
 

I think that this perception is kind of why we can't have nice things in video game romances. Telling a good story should take precedence over making the player attracted to the character. If romances in games were written as stories first and foremost, we'd have a lot more Morrigans, Farahs, and Trisses and a lot fewer Talis and Merrills, and that's absolutely something I can get behind.

[Raiil]

iakus wrote...

SO here's a question:

How will the romance between Shep/VS compare to continuing romance with Liara? Or the continuing ME2 romances? Will Shepard have to "win them back" as well?

I doubt we'll have to  win over an ME2 romance. We might have to decide between a ME1 and ME2 romance if we had one in the first game, but there's really no reason for them to go floating off and forget about the connection that was forged between the two of them. If Kaidan. Ashley, and Liara kept Shep dear to their heart, there's no reason that the various ME2 romances won't either.

The ME1 romance, I suspect it will be more that Ashley or Kaidan will approach Shepard and there will be a discussion where the VS will tell Shepard that they're still interested. The Liara one will probably be handled according to whether you had 'the talk' with her post-LoTSB or not.  If you didn't, it'll probably be the 'them or me' response, where if you did, the possibility tips to 'I still have feelings for you.'

I already know how mine is going to end (inasmuch as I know who I'm choosing and it's always the same choice- Kaidan v. Thane) but I am curious as to how the others will come about.

[knightnblu]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut - You know, I rather liked Merrill. She had an innocence that appealed to me. But I also agree with your point wholeheartedly.

[Repearized Miranda]

Valentia X wrote...

Or, in other words, what knightnblu said. +25

And another +25! (Reply should get way more than that though)

You know, I was thinking about this: I wonder if we'll get the chance to apologize to the VS/HT (Horizion ****) in ME3? To me, that would only seem fair because both were running on fumes. I honestly don't thnk something like a logo should destroy friendships/romances. If either don't accept the apology (they should ask us if we did), then it is his or her problem. That'd make up for the Horizon debacle. (dialogue wise aanyway)

[FrostedFlake84]

I didnt lose respect but I hated that whole conversation. I think it could have been done alot better. Especially since Ash was my love choice in me1.

I wonder how much more interesting the story would have been if that meeting had taken place before and Ash actually got taken by the collectors later. Of course in the end you would be given the choice to save or sacrifice her. It night have even added more tension if you were currently romancing one of the chicks on board already. Well, thats just some random thinking anyway but maybe it would have been more interesting.

Modifié par FrostedFlake84, 04 juillet 2011 - 01:03 .

[Repearized Miranda]

Any thoughts on the above idea? (I forgot to ask that question)

[Iakus]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Or, in other words, what knightnblu said. +25

And another +25! (Reply should get way more than that though)

You know, I was thinking about this: I wonder if we'll get the chance to apologize to the VS/HT (Horizion ****) in ME3? To me, that would only seem fair because both were running on fumes. I honestly don't thnk something like a logo should destroy friendships/romances. If either don't accept the apology (they should ask us if we did), then it is his or her problem. That'd make up for the Horizon debacle. (dialogue wise aanyway)

I don't know about an apology, either to or from the VS.  Why should either apologize for poor writing after all?

I'd hope more for an explanation.  Maybe something more was going on that Shepard wasn't aware of.  (Ash was under orders not to approach Shepard under any circumstances, for example)  Or Ash was told some extremely ugly rumors, beyond Shepard working with Cerberus

Supposedly, something's gonna get incorporated into ME3 to explain why Conrad assumes you renegaded him in ME1.  MAybe something else can be put in to explain the completely screwed up scene on Horizon that is resulting in VS romances to require some very awkward scenes in ME3.

[BurstAngel75]

I think everyone has forgotten one small but very important fact about the VS LI relationship. That Ashley/Kaiden spent two years trying to get over you.
Here they are trying to get on with their life after Shepard and then all of a sudden he/she appears infront of their eyes. So, those rumors of Cerberus is true. All those emotion comes crashing through. Ultimately, its Ash/Kaiden that was betrayed by Shephard for coming back from the dead.
The thing is Shepard's unfortunate reaction is reasonable, because he/she did not lose two years, to Shep, he just woke up, so his anger and confusion to Ahsley's reaction should be they way it is in Horizon. It's very hard to be rational when emotions run so high, especailly in a relationship - everyone was hurt and confused and so everyone lashed out.

[PMC65]

iakus wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

You know, I was thinking about this: I wonder if we'll get the chance to apologize to the VS/HT (Horizion ****) in ME3? To me, that would only seem fair because both were running on fumes. I honestly don't thnk something like a logo should destroy friendships/romances. If either don't accept the apology (they should ask us if we did), then it is his or her problem. That'd make up for the Horizon debacle. (dialogue wise aanyway)

I don't know about an apology, either to or from the VS.  Why should either apologize for poor writing after all?

I'd hope more for an explanation.  Maybe something more was going on that Shepard wasn't aware of.  (Ash was under orders not to approach Shepard under any circumstances, for example)  Or Ash was told some extremely ugly rumors, beyond Shepard working with Cerberus

Supposedly, something's gonna get incorporated into ME3 to explain why Conrad assumes you renegaded him in ME1.  MAybe something else can be put in to explain the completely screwed up scene on Horizon that is resulting in VS romances to require some very awkward scenes in ME3.

Bioware is going to have to deal with the VS who wasn't romanced but a friend, the VS who was/is Sheps LI and the VS who is no longer Shep's LI. I would think that the VS will bring up the event and start the apology ... and where it goes from there depends on the "variables". I would like them both to apologize, but my AshShep has a bigger problem (Miranda=unfaithful). How is that going to be resolved? If the "cheating" consequence comes at "the worst possible time", what does that mean?

Are we going to find out that the VS did the push away to protect Shepard? That they were under strict orders to not communicate with Shepard? What "lies" were told to them? Do you think that Shepard may not be Shepard?

Liara had her reasons for being "cold" to Shepard and if there had not been LotSB how many "Will you forgive Liara for Illium" threads would you be seeing? I am thinking that something is also up with the VS. Hopefully ME3 will resolve Horizon in such a way that it was somehow worth it (ie, understandable).

[ladyvader]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Or, in other words, what knightnblu said. +25

And another +25! (Reply should get way more than that though)

You know, I was thinking about this: I wonder if we'll get the chance to apologize to the VS/HT (Horizion ****) in ME3? To me, that would only seem fair because both were running on fumes. I honestly don't thnk something like a logo should destroy friendships/romances. If either don't accept the apology (they should ask us if we did), then it is his or her problem. That'd make up for the Horizon debacle. (dialogue wise aanyway)

The only thing I didn't like is this, only when the VS is the LI did you get a message from them.  Being friends isn't good enough to contact Shepard after they got back to the Citadel and talked to Anderson.  I'm sure that happened either way. 

[Iakus]

BurstAngel75 wrote...

I think everyone has forgotten one small but very important fact about the VS LI relationship. That Ashley/Kaiden spent two years trying to get over you.
Here they are trying to get on with their life after Shepard and then all of a sudden he/she appears infront of their eyes. So, those rumors of Cerberus is true. All those emotion comes crashing through. Ultimately, its Ash/Kaiden that was betrayed by Shephard for coming back from the dead.
The thing is Shepard's unfortunate reaction is reasonable, because he/she did not lose two years, to Shep, he just woke up, so his anger and confusion to Ahsley's reaction should be they way it is in Horizon. It's very hard to be rational when emotions run so high, especailly in a relationship - everyone was hurt and confused and so everyone lashed out.

Actually they had been hearing rumors that Shep wasn't dead, and might be working for Cerberus.  Granted this isn't the same as knowing ffr certain, but this wasn't a bolt from the blue.

[BurstAngel75]

Sure, rumors are out there, but it isn't going to take the sting out of seeing him in person.

[Repearized Miranda]

iakus wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Or, in other words, what knightnblu said. +25

And another +25! (Reply should get way more than that though)

You know, I was thinking about this: I wonder if we'll get the chance to apologize to the VS/HT (Horizion ****) in ME3? To me, that would only seem fair because both were running on fumes. I honestly don't thnk something like a logo should destroy friendships/romances. If either don't accept the apology (they should ask us if we did), then it is his or her problem. That'd make up for the Horizon debacle. (dialogue wise aanyway)

I don't know about an apology, either to or from the VS.  Why should either apologize for poor writing after all?

I'd hope more for an explanation.  Maybe something more was going on that Shepard wasn't aware of.  (Ash was under orders not to approach Shepard under any circumstances, for example)  Or Ash was told some extremely ugly rumors, beyond Shepard working with Cerberus

Supposedly, something's gonna get incorporated into ME3 to explain why Conrad assumes you renegaded him in ME1.  MAybe something else can be put in to explain the completely screwed up scene on Horizon that is resulting in VS romances to require some very awkward scenes in ME3.

Obviously, I meant just you because both VS did essentially apologize in the letters. I'd just thought it'd be nice to return the favor since Shepard is getting as much flack as Ashley. "I'm sorry for the way I reacted," at least that much. Ash/Kaidan may have called Shepard a traitor, but I doubt they hate Shepard - no matter how much the players may hate them for it. An apology in person who be nice even if Shepard thinks they don't owe them one. They didn't owe him/her, but gave one nonetheless. Let's be fair hear. (And I was one of those who blasted her)

[atheelogos]

I did. Their responses made no sense

[Iakus]

BurstAngel75 wrote...

Sure, rumors are out there, but it isn't going to take the sting out of seeing him in person.

Sting, maybe.  But shock?  Not as much.  Especially when Shepard, standing right there, could explain why he or she is working with Cerberus (provided nobody assumed direct control in the meantime)

A few minutes of explanation and we could have had:

Ash:  I'm sorry Shepard.  I know you think you're doing the right thing here.  But I can't follow you this time.  I'm still an Alliance soldier, with duties and obligations I can't just put aside.  I have to report this to Anderson.  I'll tell him what I saw here.  And what you said about the Collectors.  Maybe he can get something done on a higher level.  In the meantime... be careful...  You know what the road to Hell is paved with, right?

Shepard:  Good intentions

Ash:  Exactly.  Take care, skipper.  Stay alive out there.  Someday soon I want to hear the whole story.

[Iakus]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Obviously, I meant just you because both VS did essentially apologize in the letters. I'd just thought it'd be nice to return the favor since Shepard is getting as much flack as Ashley. "I'm sorry for the way I reacted," at least that much. Ash/Kaidan may have called Shepard a traitor, but I doubt they hate Shepard - no matter how much the players may hate them for it. An apology in person who be nice even if Shepard thinks they don't owe them one. They didn't owe him/her, but gave one nonetheless. Let's be fair hear. (And I was one of those who blasted her)

If that's what it takes to put that awful, awful scene in the past, then that's what it takes.

Oddly enough, those who romanced an ME2 (and presumably an ME3 romance) won't have to apologize for anything.  Nor the Liara romances, provided you stayed faithful.  Is Tali going to accuse Shepard of betrayal?  WIll Jacob call Shep a traitor?  Will Miranda have to send Shep an apology email for something? Will Garrus have to be "won back"?  It's only the VS romances that will have this kind of angst to deal with.

There better be something really special as a reward for going through it.

[Siansonea]

knightnblu wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Yeah, it seems like for a lot of you self-insert types, it comes down to an over-identification with Shepard. At no point do you ask yourselves "What if I'M the one who's wrong here? What if Ashley actually has a point? Why the hell AM I just going along with the Illusive Man?" Shepard never questions his own Derp Quotient. It's all "you're being mean to me Ashley! GTFO!" <_<

I disagree. I am with Cerberus because humanity is under the gun. I don't trust TIM as far as I could throw the Normandy and I expect a knife in my back at Cerberus' earliest opportunity. I tried to enlist the aid of the Council, but they refused. The Alliance doesn't believe in the threat to humanity either and is also doing nothing about the missing colonists as even Admiral Hackett admits. That just leaves me.
 
I was a corpscicle in space floating around until somebody picked my carcass from space and gave my remains to Cerberus. I wake up to a rolling assault and have no idea where I am, what is going on, or where my friends are, so I do the only thing that I can do and that is to survive. I meet TIM and he gives me the blah, blah about threats to humanity and I go and check it out and guess what? TIM is at least telling the truth about that.
 
Again, I have no choice. The only choice that I do have is to split and leave tens and perhaps hundreds of thousands more colonists to vanish or I work with the only people willing to fight the collectors. Anderson doesn't tell me anything and won't even tell me where Ash is or what she is up to. He does however keep me from being crucified by the Council and I guess that's something.
 
I don't like Cerberus and I damn sure don't trust them. I shut down every Cerberus op I came across as a Spectre and I fully anticipate ending TIM at the earliest opportunity on general principle. He and his organization are dangerous and rogue and they need to be stopped. The last straw for me was Overlord, because I won't allow any more innocents to be tortured by their hands if I can help it.
 
Therefore, I know exactly who I am and what my motivations are and I did what I needed to do for the greater good. I am not happy about doing it that way and I would gladly have left Cerberus if given the option, but I had no choice despite my best efforts. Ditto Arrival and 300K+ dead Batarians, and ditto LotSB and a rogue Spectre who was unwittingly aiding the Reapers.
 
Mass Effect drives home some very simple themes. First, you don't always get to do what you want to do. Sometimes you have to improvise. Second, things don't always transpire the way that you want them to and sacrifices must be made in order to accomplish your mission. Third, your friends won't always be your friends and one day you might have to let them go or kill them. Ash had two years+ to mature into the person she is in ME3. Because of her waffling on Horizon, she is no longer my LI.
 
I don't expect BW to make it easy for Ashley to fall into your arms again. They are going to make you work for it. You are going to have to win her trust all over again and bend over backward to kiss your own behind. If you are that limber then be my guest, but I am not going to do that because to me, it would be adding insult to injury.
 
I appreciate that there are differing opinions and I respect them, but please don't tell me that my own personal evaluation of the situation is flawed because I didn't question my own motives. If you wish to be Ashley's BFF, then go ahead and good for you. I choose not to. As for "over identification" with Shepard, If I play him then I am him. Just as an actor becomes his character on stage. That is what we call "game immersion." It is why we have large monitors, dark rooms, and surround sound in order "get into" the gaming environment. In a shooter, you don't immerse as much, but with an RPG the immersion is greater because the emotional investment of the player is usually higher.
 
In an RPG, emotion is king. Good emotions, bad emotions, and everything in between are all fair game for the RPG and that is why a great story is necessary in order to make the player care about the events that are transpiring and the characters who are performing the actions. It is also why romance is so dicey, because romance relies on a strong connection created between the player and the virtual character. The reactions are not as important because the goal is to make you feel something. Therefore, my reaction to Ashley is just as valid as your reaction to Ashley. Two different people, two different results and neither is wrong.
 
At least, that is how I see it.
 

Yeah, so not reading all that. So does "To hell with objectivity, disagree and you're dead to me" sum it up? If only Ashley was an asari, she could have read Shepard's mind and known for sure he was on the up and up. Oh wait, that would have been some kind of external validation. She's just supposed to trust "you" because your face is on the box. She's supposed to see the giant Protagonist label on your uniform and just agree with everything you say à la Tali/Garrus/Wrex.

I'm so glad I don't fantasize that "I" am Shepard, so I can actually judge the characters on their own merits and not based on how much they "hassle" the player character.

[Raiil]

Siansonea II wrote...

knightnblu wrote...



*snip*
 

Yeah, so not reading all that. So does "To hell with objectivity, disagree and you're dead to me" sum it up? If only Ashley was an asari, she could have read Shepard's mind and known for sure he was on the up and up. Oh wait, that would have been some kind of external validation. She's just supposed to trust "you" because your face is on the box. She's supposed to see the giant Protagonist label on your uniform and just agree with everything you say à la Tali/Garrus/Wrex.

I'm so glad I don't fantasize that "I" am Shepard, so I can actually judge the characters on their own merits and not based on how much they "hassle" the player character.

Actually, what they said was to please not assume that people haven't thought out the situation that Shepard has been placed in, alongside the reasons why their Shepard (and from what I can tell, most people's Shepards) decided that, for the sake of the mission, they had to go along with Cerberus.

It was actually well-written, polite, and nicely put out, if you'd bothered to read it.

[ubermensch007]

Did you lose respect for Operations Chief Ashley Williams after being reunited with her on Horizon ?

No... Not yet... I'm hoping that in Mass Effect 3 that she will go into more detail about why she decided to stay with the Alliance though. When she said, "How could you just turn your back on all of us? You betrayed the Alliance... Anderson. You betrayed me ! " I wanted to smack her... ( Renegade Option )  and say, "How dare you !! You know Ash, there's an old saying, "When you point your finger at someone there are three fingers pointing back at you."  I say this to her b/c in truth I felt like she was projecting when she said that to me.I think that she feels some guilt ( as well she should ) about not standing up for me and following Gabriella "Gabby" Daniels and Kenneth Donnelly  example and telling the Alliance to "Kiss her ass!!" But after giving her a piece of my mind : I just wanted to kiss her and  have Shepard and Ashley have 'Make -Up Sex That's the thing about how I feel about Ash, I think that she's hot even when she's angry. Even when she's angry at me And perhaps the best theme song for my Shepard/Ashley Romance is Colbie Caillat's song, " I Never Told You "  www.youtube.com/watch

I miss those blue eyes
How you kiss me at night
I miss the way we sleep

Like there's no sunrise
Like the taste of your smile
I miss the way we breathe

But I never told you
What I should have said
No, I never told you
I just held it in

And now,
I miss everything about you
Can't believe that I still want you
and after all the things we've been through
I miss everything about you
Without you

I see your blue eyes
Everytime I close mine
You make it hard to see
Where I belong to
When I'm not around you
It's like I'm not with me

But I never told you
What I should have said
No, I never told you
I just held it in

And now,
I miss everything about you
Can't believe that I still want you
and after all the things we've been through
I miss everything about you
Without you

But I never told you
What I should have said
No, I never told you
I just held it in

And now,
I miss everything about you
Can't believe that I still want you
and after all the things we've been through
I miss everything about you
Without you

( If you recall in ME1 during the Night Before Illos scene, Ash says that there is something that she wants to tell me, but says that we'll talk later... )

For me, in Mass Effect 2 : the Loyal to ME1 Love Interest Scene prior to entering the Omega 4 Relay was an accurate depiction of my feelings about her...

Its not that Ashley can do no wrong in my eyes.Its just that -- Well... This quote from Valentine's Day says it best. 

"In a relationship you have to accept the other person for all of who
they are and not just the parts that are easy to like... "When you love someone, you love ALL of them. Not just the good parts but the bad ones too."      :innocent:



    

../../../uploads_user/839000/838282/22203.jpg

P.S. Yeah, these pictures are from another fellow's post , I like them so I'm using them as well 
 

Modifié par ubermensch007, 04 juillet 2011 - 07:24 .

[knightnblu]

[quote]Siansonea II wrote...
 [/quote]

Yeah, so not reading all that. So does "To hell with objectivity, disagree and you're dead to me" sum it up? If only Ashley was an asari, she could have read Shepard's mind and known for sure he was on the up and up. Oh wait, that would have been some kind of external validation. She's just supposed to trust "you" because your face is on the box. She's supposed to see the giant Protagonist label on your uniform and just agree with everything you say à la Tali/Garrus/Wrex.

I'm so glad I don't fantasize that "I" am Shepard, so I can actually judge the characters on their own merits and not based on how much they "hassle" the player character.
[/quote]



You know for someone who advocates for objectivity, you sure seem to disregard a lot of facts. First off, you won't even read my entire post ("Yeah, so not reading all that.") So how do you even know what my points are or what their basis in fact is? Secondly, Ashley's grandfather, General Williams, got ran over by the Alliance on scant few facts and loads of rumors and innuendo regarding his surrender at Shan Xi and Ashley believes that is just the most awful and terrible thing. In fact, she is so traumatized by what happened to her grandfather that she seeks to martyr herself for him on Vrmire to restore her family's honor. Yet, she turns around and does exactly the same thing that she abhors about her grandfather's shame to the man that she professes to have loved. This is why I say that she had a psychotic break on Horizon.
 
Ashley never even asks for an explanation, she just makes a snap judgment based on nothing more than rumors and innuendo and then point blank calls Shepard a traitor. Maybe you recall her saying, "You betrayed the Alliance, Anderson,...you betrayed me." Words mean things, but that isn't all. Do you remember how she said that? I do. There was a touch of venom that she added to those words or did you miss the vocal inflections and facial expressions? Seems to me that is a pretty good approximation of what happened to General Williams, who was also branded a traitor by the people that he trusted.
 
An unknown and superior military force jumps in and wipes out all of the orbital defenses and then drops rocks on anything that moves until the only choice left was either surrender or starvation. What other choice did William's grandfather have? He fought as best as he knew how, but it just wasn't good enough and his men and civilians were dying. Starved and with no hope for relief, he surrendered. As a result, he was chastised and betrayed by the service that he loved.
 
Unfortunately, Ashley didn't remember that. The only thing missing from her reaction on Horizon would have been taking Shepard into custody and returning him to the Citadel in chains. Who knows, maybe Ash will be holding his leash when they try him as a traitor back on Earth. That would put the final touch on this poignant re-enactment of her grandfather's disgrace that she seems hell bent to re-live with Shepard cast in the role of her grandfather.
 
I would have thought that Ashley would have been a bit more open minded. That she would be smart enough not to do to Shepard what the Alliance did to her family, but I was wrong. Enlighten me, how is all of this Shepard's fault? You essentially seem to blame him for his negative reaction, but never seem to manage a coherent explanation as to why. You just delve into histrionics.
 
You point the finger at me and accuse me of being narrow minded, not introspective enough, and not intellectual enough to understand poor Ashley's motivations, but you never seem to grasp the fact that it isn't Shepard's fault. Shepard is the victim, not the accuser. But I doubt that you will even read more than a few sentences of this reply. I fully expect another, "Yeah, so not reading all that" followed by the text of what you have used at least two posts to say.

[Repearized Miranda]

iakus wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Obviously, I meant just you because both VS did essentially apologize in the letters. I'd just thought it'd be nice to return the favor since Shepard is getting as much flack as Ashley. "I'm sorry for the way I reacted," at least that much. Ash/Kaidan may have called Shepard a traitor, but I doubt they hate Shepard - no matter how much the players may hate them for it. An apology in person who be nice even if Shepard thinks they don't owe them one. They didn't owe him/her, but gave one nonetheless. Let's be fair hear. (And I was one of those who blasted her)

If that's what it takes to put that awful, awful scene in the past, then that's what it takes.

Oddly enough, those who romanced an ME2 (and presumably an ME3 romance) won't have to apologize for anything.  Nor the Liara romances, provided you stayed faithful.  Is Tali going to accuse Shepard of betrayal?  WIll Jacob call Shep a traitor?  Will Miranda have to send Shep an apology email for something? Will Garrus have to be "won back"?  It's only the VS romances that will have this kind of angst to deal with.

There better be something really special as a reward for going through it.

This is just for Horizon. Quarrels with squadmates is something different. There is no question if they deal with you appropriately because you cheated on them.

[Hawkeye121]

   When I first saw Ash on Horizon and after I played through the whole encounter I honestly was pretty disappointed with the way both Shep and Ash reacted to one another. I honestly believe the encounter itself could have been written and executed better than it was. However, that being said I will worked with what I had. 
   
   I had the impression that Ashley was happy to see Shep alive but angry to see him "working" with Cerberus. Her emotions were running pretty high and I think they got the better of her during that time. However, I can honestly say that I understand her frustration and anger with regards to all that was going on at the time. Whenever I get the chance to talk to her in ME3 I won't hold anything against her it's water under the bridge in my mind however, discussing the events of the past two years would be awesome chance re-affirm our love for one another.

   One last thing is I think Shepard could have defended himself a lot better I wanted to yell at her when she called be a traitor!!! Honest and loyalty is very important to me and she has no right to call me a traitor. I would have stopped her right then and there.

Just my two cents,

-Hawk

[Siansonea]

knightnblu wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Yeah, so not reading all that. So does "To hell with objectivity, disagree and you're dead to me" sum it up? If only Ashley was an asari, she could have read Shepard's mind and known for sure he was on the up and up. Oh wait, that would have been some kind of external validation. She's just supposed to trust "you" because your face is on the box. She's supposed to see the giant Protagonist label on your uniform and just agree with everything you say à la Tali/Garrus/Wrex.

I'm so glad I don't fantasize that "I" am Shepard, so I can actually judge the characters on their own merits and not based on how much they "hassle" the player character.

You know for someone who advocates for objectivity, you sure seem to disregard a lot of facts. First off, you won't even read my entire post ("Yeah, so not reading all that.") So how do you even know what my points are or what their basis in fact is? Secondly, Ashley's grandfather, General Williams, got ran over by the Alliance on scant few facts and loads of rumors and innuendo regarding his surrender at Shan Xi and Ashley believes that is just the most awful and terrible thing. In fact, she is so traumatized by what happened to her grandfather that she seeks to martyr herself for him on Vrmire to restore her family's honor. Yet, she turns around and does exactly the same thing that she abhors about her grandfather's shame to the man that she professes to have loved. This is why I say that she had a psychotic break on Horizon.
 
Ashley never even asks for an explanation, she just makes a snap judgment based on nothing more than rumors and innuendo and then point blank calls Shepard a traitor. Maybe you recall her saying, "You betrayed the Alliance, Anderson,...you betrayed me." Words mean things, but that isn't all. Do you remember how she said that? I do. There was a touch of venom that she added to those words or did you miss the vocal inflections and facial expressions? Seems to me that is a pretty good approximation of what happened to General Williams, who was also branded a traitor by the people that he trusted.
 
An unknown and superior military force jumps in and wipes out all of the orbital defenses and then drops rocks on anything that moves until the only choice left was either surrender or starvation. What other choice did William's grandfather have? He fought as best as he knew how, but it just wasn't good enough and his men and civilians were dying. Starved and with no hope for relief, he surrendered. As a result, he was chastised and betrayed by the service that he loved.
 
Unfortunately, Ashley didn't remember that. The only thing missing from her reaction on Horizon would have been taking Shepard into custody and returning him to the Citadel in chains. Who knows, maybe Ash will be holding his leash when they try him as a traitor back on Earth. That would put the final touch on this poignant re-enactment of her grandfather's disgrace that she seems hell bent to re-live with Shepard cast in the role of her grandfather.
 
I would have thought that Ashley would have been a bit more open minded. That she would be smart enough not to do to Shepard what the Alliance did to her family, but I was wrong. Enlighten me, how is all of this Shepard's fault? You essentially seem to blame him for his negative reaction, but never seem to manage a coherent explanation as to why. You just delve into histrionics.
 
You point the finger at me and accuse me of being narrow minded, not introspective enough, and not intellectual enough to understand poor Ashley's motivations, but you never seem to grasp the fact that it isn't Shepard's fault. Shepard is the victim, not the accuser. But I doubt that you will even read more than a few sentences of this reply. I fully expect another, "Yeah, so not reading all that" followed by the text of what you have used at least two posts to say.

Snap judgement? We're not talking about Shepard showing up with Helena Blake, or Rana Thanoptis, or Shiala. It's Cerberus. I suppose you think Cerberus "isn't that bad"? The first game went out of its way to paint Cerberus as The Really Really Bad Guys, and Ashley had first-hand experience with that. Whatever Renegade stuff Shepard may or may not have done in ME1, that's still a far cry from joining a human supremacist group known for brutal assassinations of Alliance personnel and unconscionable scientific experiments on living sapient subjects. There is no room for interpretation here—Shepard has gone over to the dark side. And he might not even know it. Someone needs to knock some sense into him.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 04 juillet 2011 - 04:52 .