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[AngelicMachinery]

Abispa wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Abispa wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
I've never seen Miranda's resignation.  Does it only happen for MShep?  If so..  I'm going to fume not so quietly.

If she is in your squad as you take down the human reaper she will tell you that TIM has a message. You know the deal at that point. If you destroy the base, TIM goes nuts and Miranda (and Jacob, too, if he's there) pretty much quit Cerberus. If you keep the base, Miranda tells you how disappointed she is when you visit her after the credits.

Huh, got a few saves before the baby reaper...  might have to give this a go... but I was sure I had Miranda in my squad in a few play throughs at the end.

Maybe one of our games is bugged. I got the XBox version, by the way.

I'm playing on the PC.  I might be drawing a blank though,  it's possible I've never used Miranda at the end...  not 100% sure though.

[Abispa]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Then she comes face to face with Shepard—at the site of a human colony abduction. Clearly Cerberus didn't fly that big ship with the creepy aliens and the stinging bugs, but—gee, the timing is awfully coincidental. And Shepard acts like it's no big deal, like no time has passed, and hey Ash, how've you been? Just kickin' it with Cerberus, casual as can be. Freaking Cerberus!!!!

Yeah, I think I would have gone WAY more ballistic than Ashley did.

This.

Honestly, I'm entirely surprised this is an issue for people. When a character joins a terrorist organization, expect other characters to take exception. What is it with the BSN and people wanting constant emotional validation from their video game characters?

What REALLY REALLY REALLY ticks me off is how security on Omega, Illium, and the Citidel allow a Cerberus vessel to dock and don't freak out when humans wearing Cerberus uniforms walk around FULLY ARMED. Sure, WE know Shepard's on the up and up, and that most of her crew is "okay," but as far as anyone else knows, Cerberus is a human-centric terrorist organization.

Instead of feeling "betrayed" by Ashley, ME fans should feel shock that most the alien authorities are so inane.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Abispa wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Then she comes face to face with Shepard—at the site of a human colony abduction. Clearly Cerberus didn't fly that big ship with the creepy aliens and the stinging bugs, but—gee, the timing is awfully coincidental. And Shepard acts like it's no big deal, like no time has passed, and hey Ash, how've you been? Just kickin' it with Cerberus, casual as can be. Freaking Cerberus!!!!

Yeah, I think I would have gone WAY more ballistic than Ashley did.

This.

Honestly, I'm entirely surprised this is an issue for people. When a character joins a terrorist organization, expect other characters to take exception. What is it with the BSN and people wanting constant emotional validation from their video game characters?

What REALLY REALLY REALLY ticks me off is how security on Omega, Illium, and the Citidel allow a Cerberus vessel to dock and don't freak out when humans wearing Cerberus uniforms walk around FULLY ARMED. Sure, WE know Shepard's on the up and up, and that most of her crew is "okay," but as far as anyone else knows, Cerberus is a human-centric terrorist organization.

Instead of feeling "betrayed" by Ashley, ME fans should feel shock that most the alien authorities are so inane.

Yeah, they stick their logo on the Normandy and everything. The one I'm surprised isn't super pissed is Tali. I'll admit that part of that is my evil desire to see the Talimancers QQ, but the majority of that is that a character that theoretically has a backbone isn't significantly disturbed by the fact that her former commander has joined a human supremacist organization that they spent part of the last game fighting. A pet peeve of mine is when characters in RPGs become complete pushovers whenever a protagonist walks into the room - you really have to search to find a game where they don't do that.

[Siansonea]

Abispa wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Then she comes face to face with Shepard—at the site of a human colony abduction. Clearly Cerberus didn't fly that big ship with the creepy aliens and the stinging bugs, but—gee, the timing is awfully coincidental. And Shepard acts like it's no big deal, like no time has passed, and hey Ash, how've you been? Just kickin' it with Cerberus, casual as can be. Freaking Cerberus!!!!

Yeah, I think I would have gone WAY more ballistic than Ashley did.

This.

Honestly, I'm entirely surprised this is an issue for people. When a character joins a terrorist organization, expect other characters to take exception. What is it with the BSN and people wanting constant emotional validation from their video game characters?

What REALLY REALLY REALLY ticks me off is how security on Omega, Illium, and the Citidel allow a Cerberus vessel to dock and don't freak out when humans wearing Cerberus uniforms walk around FULLY ARMED. Sure, WE know Shepard's on the up and up, and that most of her crew is "okay," but as far as anyone else knows, Cerberus is a human-centric terrorist organization.

Instead of feeling "betrayed" by Ashley, ME fans should feel shock that most the alien authorities are so inane.

^This.

Ashley's reaction should be MOST people's reaction. But everyone's all "hey Cerberus, okay, whatever". A Cerberus vessel should NEVER be allowed to dock at the Citadel, even Zakera Ward. Does the Alliance hold sway on the Citadel or don't they? I don't have as big a problem with Omega and Illium, since they're controlled by asari, and since Liara vouches for Shepard on Illium. And Aria basically sends a message to Shepard to report to her immediately. I'm sure not every newbie who shows up on Omega gets called on the carpet with Aria as soon as they arrive. But a dead Spectre on a Cerberus ship? Yeah, Aria needs to see that one for herself to evaluate the threat.

[Siansonea]

And another thing. Shepard pulls the same "come with me" schpiel with Tali that he pulls with Ashley, and she also refuses. Tali also calls out Shepard for working with Cerberus, and even adds some demerits to Cerberus' already long list of shady goings-on. But no one 'loses respect' for Tali because of it. And it's only after Horizon, and after being rescued from certain death at the hands of the geth, that Tali agrees to rejoin Shepard's crew. So why is it okay for Tali to tell Shepard to eff off (temporarily), but it's not okay for Ashley to?

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Siansonea II wrote...

And another thing. Shepard pulls the same "come with me" schpiel with Tali that he pulls with Ashley, and she also refuses. Tali also calls out Shepard for working with Cerberus, and even adds some demerits to Cerberus' already long list of shady goings-on. But no one 'loses respect' for Tali because of it. And it's only after Horizon, and after being rescued from certain death at the hands of the geth, that Tali agrees to rejoin Shepard's crew. So why is it okay for Tali to tell Shepard to eff off (temporarily), but it's not okay for Ashley to?

Honestly, I was irritated that Tali's reaction wasn't harsh enough. Or Liara's reaction, or Garrus's reaction, although Garrus less so because he generally doesn't give a sh*t. I don't like it when characters, especially female characters, get stuff like prior characterization and common sense sidelined in order to give the players what they want.

[bleetman]

Siansonea II wrote...

And another thing. Shepard pulls the same "come with me" schpiel with Tali that he pulls with Ashley, and she also refuses. Tali also calls out Shepard for working with Cerberus, and even adds some demerits to Cerberus' already long list of shady goings-on. But no one 'loses respect' for Tali because of it. And it's only after Horizon, and after being rescued from certain death at the hands of the geth, that Tali agrees to rejoin Shepard's crew. So why is it okay for Tali to tell Shepard to eff off (temporarily), but it's not okay for Ashley to?

I'd assume because Tali's reaction is nothing like Ashley's. Tali joins as soon as she's able, doesn't trust Cerberus but is willing to hear Shepard out, and generally acts pretty pleased to see him/her alive. Ashley calls him/her a traitor and storms off.

It's not a reaction I blame her for, incidentally. But it's not all that similar.

[S.A.K]

Siansonea II wrote...

And another thing. Shepard pulls the same "come with me" schpiel with Tali that he pulls with Ashley, and she also refuses. Tali also calls out Shepard for working with Cerberus, and even adds some demerits to Cerberus' already long list of shady goings-on. But no one 'loses respect' for Tali because of it. And it's only after Horizon, and after being rescued from certain death at the hands of the geth, that Tali agrees to rejoin Shepard's crew. So why is it okay for Tali to tell Shepard to eff off (temporarily), but it's not okay for Ashley to?

Hmm I guess it has to do with Tali joining the crew. Ashley never join in ME2 and if she did I think people will have deferent opinions. Well find out when ME3 comes out. Btw I didn't loose respect for Ashley.

[S.A.K]

Double post is annoying.

[KingNothing125]

The Horizon encounter goes as badly as you could imagine. I hated the fact that there wasn't a good way to handle it.

But that happens in movies/TV/books all the time. When you wish a character had said this instead of that, "Oh why couldn't he have said this? I totally could have fixed that situation."

Doesn't work that way, obviously. Heck, I didn't like the Virmire choice. I think I could have saved both of them, but the game forced it on me, just like they force the Horizon results. Just gotta roll with it. I don't fault anyone for it.

I've posted in other threads that Ashley/Kaidan are perfectly justified to feel the way they felt on Horizon, so no I didn't lose any respect for either of them (though I think Ashley's email is way better than Kaidan's).

[Davie McG]

That logo is the logo of a company that is a front for cerberus, and I'm fairly sure cerberus is pretty much a secret organization.

Shepard is surprised Mordin has even heard of cerberus when he recruits him and he was in the special tasks force. So I doubt local security forces on alien planets have heard much about them.

[SirGladiator]

Tali gives a good reason for why she can't go with Shepard right away, its because she's on an extremely important mission for her people. It doesn't have anything to do with cerberus, in fact she works with Shepard right then and there even though she is working with cerberus people in her 3-man-team at the time. Its a completely friendly and reasonable conversation, Tali is certainly far more reasonable than that other quarian fellow who is there, she totally puts that guy in his place.

In the case of Ashley, her attitude is unreasonable because once she understands that it was cerberus who saved Shepard's life, and it was cerberus who had just saved what was left of that colony and was the only group in the galaxy fighting the reapers, she STILL treats Shepard terribly, its just extremely unreasonable. Its especially unreasonable if she is Shepard's LI, but even if they're just teammates, she should know Shepard, and the situation overall, well enough to not treat her that way, its just wrong, and doesn't really make good sense.

[AngelicMachinery]

SirGladiator wrote...


In the case of Ashley, her attitude is unreasonable because once she understands that it was cerberus who saved Shepard's life, and it was cerberus who had just saved what was left of that colony and was the only group in the galaxy fighting the reapers, she STILL treats Shepard terribly, its just extremely unreasonable. Its especially unreasonable if she is Shepard's LI, but even if they're just teammates, she should know Shepard, and the situation overall, well enough to not treat her that way, its just wrong, and doesn't really make good sense.

You mean the colony the TIM lured the collectors too?  The VS knows where it's at...  stop trying to make them out to be unreasonable.  

[KingNothing125]

SirGladiator wrote...

its because she's on an extremely important mission for her people.

The Virmire Survivor is on a classified Alliance mission. So, sort of exactly the same as that.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

SirGladiator wrote...

Tali gives a good reason for why she can't go with Shepard right away, its because she's on an extremely important mission for her people. It doesn't have anything to do with cerberus, in fact she works with Shepard right then and there even though she is working with cerberus people in her 3-man-team at the time. Its a completely friendly and reasonable conversation, Tali is certainly far more reasonable than that other quarian fellow who is there, she totally puts that guy in his place.

In the case of Ashley, her attitude is unreasonable because once she understands that it was cerberus who saved Shepard's life, and it was cerberus who had just saved what was left of that colony and was the only group in the galaxy fighting the reapers, she STILL treats Shepard terribly, its just extremely unreasonable. Its especially unreasonable if she is Shepard's LI, but even if they're just teammates, she should know Shepard, and the situation overall, well enough to not treat her that way, its just wrong, and doesn't really make good sense.

I don't entirely agree with that Ashley thing. How would you feel if your significant other told you that he/she had joined Hamas because Hamas was the only organization they felt was doing anything to combat some sort of external threat? The reasonable response to Shep joining a terrorist organization is anger, honestly. And having characters showing some backbone vs. giving the player what they want is something it would be awesome to see more of from Bioware - Ashley getting angry, Morrigan giving ultimatums, and so on are absolutely the right way to do things.

[Siansonea]

SirGladiator wrote...

Tali gives a good reason for why she can't go with Shepard right away, its because she's on an extremely important mission for her people. It doesn't have anything to do with cerberus, in fact she works with Shepard right then and there even though she is working with cerberus people in her 3-man-team at the time. Its a completely friendly and reasonable conversation, Tali is certainly far more reasonable than that other quarian fellow who is there, she totally puts that guy in his place.

In the case of Ashley, her attitude is unreasonable because once she understands that it was cerberus who saved Shepard's life, and it was cerberus who had just saved what was left of that colony and was the only group in the galaxy fighting the reapers, she STILL treats Shepard terribly, its just extremely unreasonable. Its especially unreasonable if she is Shepard's LI, but even if they're just teammates, she should know Shepard, and the situation overall, well enough to not treat her that way, its just wrong, and doesn't really make good sense.

This sounds like "Character-Point-Of-View-itis", or "My Shepard, Right Or Wrong". People get so infused with Shepard that they lose sight of the big picture. Ashley was quite reasonable. Even knowing full well that Shepard is cavorting with a rogue organization, she doesn't try to arrest him. I think she showed admirable restraint and discretion. She also doesn't know that Cerberus "saved Shepard's life", for all she knows Shepard hitched a ride with a passing batarian salvage vessel and found Cerberus on his own. She's not privy to all the details that the player-as-Shepard and player-as-omniscient observer knows. She can't base her decisions on things she hasn't directly experienced from her own point of view.

[Homebound]

Ashley was dead in my playthroughs.

[Iakus]

Siansonea II wrote...

And another thing. Shepard pulls the same "come with me" schpiel with Tali that he pulls with Ashley, and she also refuses. Tali also calls out Shepard for working with Cerberus, and even adds some demerits to Cerberus' already long list of shady goings-on. But no one 'loses respect' for Tali because of it. And it's only after Horizon, and after being rescued from certain death at the hands of the geth, that Tali agrees to rejoin Shepard's crew. So why is it okay for Tali to tell Shepard to eff off (temporarily), but it's not okay for Ashley to?

Tali was actually a lot nicer about it than Ash (or Kaidan)  For one thing, she doesn't accuse Shepard of being a traitor when she herself had helped Shepard commit treasonous acts to save the galaxy in ME1.  .  In fact, Tali's reaction on Freedom's Progress  is what Ash's should have been.

"I'm glad you're still the one giving the orders"

[ladyvader]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

And another thing. Shepard pulls the same "come with me" schpiel with Tali that he pulls with Ashley, and she also refuses. Tali also calls out Shepard for working with Cerberus, and even adds some demerits to Cerberus' already long list of shady goings-on. But no one 'loses respect' for Tali because of it. And it's only after Horizon, and after being rescued from certain death at the hands of the geth, that Tali agrees to rejoin Shepard's crew. So why is it okay for Tali to tell Shepard to eff off (temporarily), but it's not okay for Ashley to?

Honestly, I was irritated that Tali's reaction wasn't harsh enough. Or Liara's reaction, or Garrus's reaction, although Garrus less so because he generally doesn't give a sh*t. I don't like it when characters, especially female characters, get stuff like prior characterization and common sense sidelined in order to give the players what they want.

Liara knows why Shepard is with Cerberus.  She gave Shepard to them.  Why should she react to that at all?  She known for two years that Cerberus was rebuilting Shepard.   Liara was afraid that Shepard would hate her for it.

And about Tali.  She said her mission was too important to allow anyone else to take it and she wished she had joined Shepard back on Freedom's Progress.  She trust Shepard but doesn't trust Cerberus and neither does any of my Shepards(paragon or renegade).

[spartanmax52000]

TomY90 wrote...

i am not a Ash hater considering I romanced with her during ME1 in all occasions (apart from one to see what it was like with Liara but preferred the Ashley romance)

But it did annoy me how she reacted to me being back from the dead.

and how she talked felt like she moved on (in reality she did not) and hated what you have became even when you have not changed at all just that you are back from the dead thanks to cerberus.

To be honest the Tali reaction felt more real than the Ash/Kaidan reaction considering she did not believe it was really you at 1st and said she glad to see you again.

But it did sour my liking to Ashley which that did actually trigger me to go for Miranda instead considering I was quite enjoying the character as it was at the start.

but was going to stay loyal considering I really did the character but now I think she is a good character thats it.

I do think though Bioware did this on purpose because they wanted us to consider other romances instead of all of us staying loyal because all the ME1 romances have changed whether they are displeased finding you are working with cerberus but glad to see you alive or just happy to see you again but has became cold in the process of saving you.

I do think if Ashley did not use the angry stick at Shepard I would be more likely to have stayed loyal to her and i sure others were the same as me on that one.

 True and well saidB)

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

ladyvader wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

And another thing. Shepard pulls the same "come with me" schpiel with Tali that he pulls with Ashley, and she also refuses. Tali also calls out Shepard for working with Cerberus, and even adds some demerits to Cerberus' already long list of shady goings-on. But no one 'loses respect' for Tali because of it. And it's only after Horizon, and after being rescued from certain death at the hands of the geth, that Tali agrees to rejoin Shepard's crew. So why is it okay for Tali to tell Shepard to eff off (temporarily), but it's not okay for Ashley to?

Honestly, I was irritated that Tali's reaction wasn't harsh enough. Or Liara's reaction, or Garrus's reaction, although Garrus less so because he generally doesn't give a sh*t. I don't like it when characters, especially female characters, get stuff like prior characterization and common sense sidelined in order to give the players what they want.

Liara knows why Shepard is with Cerberus.  She gave Shepard to them.  Why should she react to that at all?  She known for two years that Cerberus was rebuilting Shepard.   Liara was afraid that Shepard would hate her for it.

And about Tali.  She said her mission was too important to allow anyone else to take it and she wished she had joined Shepard back on Freedom's Progress.  She trust Shepard but doesn't trust Cerberus and neither does any of my Shepards(paragon or renegade).

Yeah, Liara I can give a pass to for that reason (although I'd expect her to be dissapointed that Shep's still working for Cerberus) but Tali doesn't really have an excuse. If a friend of mine, no matter how much I trust that friend, was working for Hamas, I would be incensed.

[Raiil]

What REALLY REALLY REALLY ticks me off is how security on Omega, Illium, and the Citidel allow a Cerberus vessel to dock and don't freak out when humans wearing Cerberus uniforms walk around FULLY ARMED. Sure, WE know Shepard's on the up and up, and that most of her crew is "okay," but as far as anyone else knows, Cerberus is a human-centric terrorist organization.

It's not a Cerberus logo; it's the symbol for one of their front companies (which, presumably, not everyone knows about), Cord-Hislop.

Ashley was quite reasonable.

I would say, maybe her reaction was understandable, but not reasonable. Obviously Hand of God in the form of writers has a lot to do with it, but Ashley's not stupid, The reasonable thing would have been for the two to have a serious conversation as to what the hell was going on. The VS has an understandably emotional reaction to seeing their old commander/possible lover alive against after two years, but it's not a studied, rational one. A lot more information could have been relayed to the Alliance, if not the Council, about what the hell was going on.

Ashley was quite reasonable. Even knowing full well that Shepard is cavorting with a rogue organization, she doesn't try to arrest him.

Under what authority? It's not Alliance or Council space. The VS has no authority there. It being a human colony doesn't automatically put it under Alliance protection. Horizon is known to harbour dissidents against the Alliance.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Valentia X wrote...

Ashley was quite reasonable.

I would say, maybe her reaction was understandable, but not reasonable. Obviously Hand of God in the form of writers has a lot to do with it, but Ashley's not stupid, The reasonable thing would have been for the two to have a serious conversation as to what the hell was going on. The VS has an understandably emotional reaction to seeing their old commander/possible lover alive against after two years, but it's not a studied, rational one. A lot more information could have been relayed to the Alliance, if not the Council, about what the hell was going on.

If an ex-commander of mine showed up working for Hamas, you'd better believe I wouldn't be giving him/her a studied, rational reception. And I doubt you would either

Modifié par DaveExclamationMarkYognaut, 03 juillet 2011 - 07:22 .

[Raiil]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Ashley was quite reasonable.

I would say, maybe her reaction was understandable, but not reasonable. Obviously Hand of God in the form of writers has a lot to do with it, but Ashley's not stupid, The reasonable thing would have been for the two to have a serious conversation as to what the hell was going on. The VS has an understandably emotional reaction to seeing their old commander/possible lover alive against after two years, but it's not a studied, rational one. A lot more information could have been relayed to the Alliance, if not the Council, about what the hell was going on.

If an ex-commander of mine showed up working for Hamas, you'd better believe I wouldn't be giving him/her a studied, rational reception. And I doubt you would either

Most likely; I'm not debating that point. I think the reaction is very understandable. But the fact that the VS essentially stomps off before discussing- privately, if possible- what the hell is going on with Shepard makes it irrational. I don't like Ashley, at all (and I'm not a Kaidan fan either), but they're both intelligent people and a five minute debriefing (no pun intended... I swear) over the situation would have worked out better for both parties.

Instead, there's a short reunion, possibly a hug, and then a what the hell, hero? moment wherein the hero is struck dumb by the Powers That Write The Series and the VS bounces and probably slams the door to their bedroom shut before listening to Linkin Park and writing a letter.

[Varus Praetor]

It was like her. Ashley's a bit of a ****.  My respect for her started off low and fell much much lower after the "reunion."

Modifié par Varus Praetor, 03 juillet 2011 - 08:31 .