281 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

Repearized Miranda wrote...
*snip*
I don't expect that either - especially, when I know I am wrong, but you shouldn't shoot off at the mouth even if I am. But since you brought up: Everybody with Shepard states how blind Ashley is to the Alliance. She can be wrong, too, you know? Sure, a real friend would tell you you are wrong, but they wouldn't throw it in your face either appearing to begrudge you for it. That is what Ashley did and that was wrong. Anderson was more reasonable giving his view regarding the same conversation.

Shepard is a macho space marine brick—and he can't handle a few strong words from a friend who is genuinely worried about him? A friend who hasn't seen him in two years, who thought he was dead? Obviously Shepard has been lying to her for two years by allowing her to believe he was dead. Meanwhile he was off with Cerberus doing who knows what. And...why? Then there's all this preposterous talk about dying and coming back to life, which is obviously not true, and acting like Cerberus "isn't so bad".

Hate to break it to everyone, but Shepard IS a traitor, technically speaking. Sure, Anderson and Hackett are tacitly and surreptitiously supporting Shepard, but that doesn't change the facts. Cerberus is a rogue organization, and the Alliance had designated them as terrorists. Their track record isn't just "checkered"—it's littered with atrocities that rival the worst groups in human history. Shepard isn't just being a "naughty boy" here. He's turned his back on EVERYTHING the Alliance stood for.  And Ashley is an Alliance soldier. She's expected to be loyal to the Alliance. And so was Shepard.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 03 juillet 2011 - 06:16 .

[Repearized Miranda]

Valentia X wrote...

Would you rather I call you chick? No? Fine.

The VS (since they're written as as being interchangeable at this point) should have dug deeper at this point. When something appears to have gone off the rails, the rational thing to does not include getting so mightily pissed off and bouncing without time for an actual discussion of what the hell is going on.

Like I said, it's an understandable reaction- I'm not saying I, in real life, would be acting any differently- and pretty much a given considering the crap Cerberus has pulled, but understandable emotional reaction doesn't equate to rational reaction. Important information that could have been relayed to the few who actually know what the hell is actually going on. Neither Shepard nor the VS are given a chance in-game to really explain themselves, which is a failure on the part of the Hand of God, but it's the VS who bounces out before choosing to dig a little due to emotional distress.

^ This

[Siansonea]

Valentia X wrote...

Would you rather I call you chick? No? Fine.

The VS (since they're written as as being interchangeable at this point) should have dug deeper at this point. When something appears to have gone off the rails, the rational thing to does not include getting so mightily pissed off and bouncing without time for an actual discussion of what the hell is going on.

Like I said, it's an understandable reaction- I'm not saying I, in real life, would be acting any differently- and pretty much a given considering the crap Cerberus has pulled, but understandable emotional reaction doesn't equate to rational reaction. Important information that could have been relayed to the few who actually know what the hell is actually going on. Neither Shepard nor the VS are given a chance in-game to really explain themselves, which is a failure on the part of the Hand of God, but it's the VS who bounces out before choosing to dig a little due to emotional distress.

How about "ma'am".

So, your basic objection is that she left too quickly? What exactly was Ashley supposed to ask Shepard, who was clearly already telling lie after lie?

[Repearized Miranda]

Siansonea II wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...
*snip*
I don't expect that either - especially, when I know I am wrong, but you shouldn't shoot off at the mouth even if I am. But since you brought up: Everybody with Shepard states how blind Ashley is to the Alliance. She can be wrong, too, you know? Sure, a real friend would tell you you are wrong, but they wouldn't throw it in your face either appearing to begrudge you for it. That is what Ashley did and that was wrong. Anderson was more reasonable giving his view regarding the same conversation.

Shepard is a macho space marine brick—and he can't handle a few strong words from a friend who is genuinely worried about him? A friend who hasn't seen him in two years, who thought he was dead? Obviously Shepard has been lying to her for two years by allowing her to believe he was dead. Meanwhile he was off with Cerberus doing who knows what. And...why? Then there's all this preposterous talk about dying and coming back to life, which is obviously not true, and acting like Cerberus "isn't so bad".

Hate to break it to everyone, but Shepard IS a traitor, technically speaking. Sure, Anderson and Hackett are tacitly and surreptitiously supporting Shepard, but that doesn't change the facts. Cerberus is a rogue organization, and the Alliance had designated them as terrorists. Their track record isn't just "checkered"—it's littered with atrocities that rival the worst groups in human history. Shepard isn't just being a "naughty boy" here. He's turned his back on EVERYTHING the Alliance stood for.  And Ashley is an Alliance soldier. She's expected to be loyal to the Alliance. And so was Shepard.

Given all the BS, they pulled? Who is Ashley to talk? Cerberus did this and that, but you're with them and staying? You did the same Ash! You're as much of a kiss-ass as I. Call a spade a spade, damn it!!

Shepard's trying to save a galaxy and clearly getting no help! The galaxy needs all the help it can get. If that means "working with the enemy," so be it! Most times, that is what has to be done or that saying wouldn't exist! Watching ships pass isn't much help - especially not when it's a Reaper one!

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Given all the BS, they pulled? Who is Ashley to talk? Cerberus did this and that, but you're with them and staying? You did the same Ash! You're as much of a kiss-ass as I. Call a spade a spade, damn it!!

Shepard's trying to save a galaxy and clearly getting no help! The galaxy needs all the help it can get. If that means "working with the enemy," so be it! Most times, that is what has to be done or that saying wouldn't exist! Watching ships pass isn't much help - especially not when it's a Reaper one!

Yes, because a government institution without 100% complete information is totally equivalent to Space Hamas (if Hamas also dipped into mad science.) The point is that Ashley doesn't know what the player knows. All she sees is Shep working for the terrorist organization she has reason to suspect may have been involved with the attack on Horizon. It makes sense in context of the story that she'd be ticked. Of course, I can forgive people for being shocked when this happens because Bioware almost never does stuff like this.

[Raiil]

Ma'am is my mother. Dude is everyone else.

I find it hard for the VS to 'know' that Shepard is lying, in-universe knowledge or not. Perhaps I've not taken then right dialogue options, but I have been upfront with the VS in ME1 and ME2 (and will be with them in ME3) and up until that point have never given them a reason to think I would lie.

What should have been asked?

What does Cerberus know about the Collectors?
Garrus (if he's there) what do you know about Cerberus?
How come you didn't report back to the Alliance?
How did you avoid getting stunned?
Why don't you come back with me?
Do you know what the council will do when they find out you're with Cerberus?- that would have led to an interesting conversation about regaining spectre status if you've already gone there.

Something besides 'you're a traitor' and the flounce.

[Repearized Miranda]

Siansonea II wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Would you rather I call you chick? No? Fine.

The VS (since they're written as as being interchangeable at this point) should have dug deeper at this point. When something appears to have gone off the rails, the rational thing to does not include getting so mightily pissed off and bouncing without time for an actual discussion of what the hell is going on.

Like I said, it's an understandable reaction- I'm not saying I, in real life, would be acting any differently- and pretty much a given considering the crap Cerberus has pulled, but understandable emotional reaction doesn't equate to rational reaction. Important information that could have been relayed to the few who actually know what the hell is actually going on. Neither Shepard nor the VS are given a chance in-game to really explain themselves, which is a failure on the part of the Hand of God, but it's the VS who bounces out before choosing to dig a little due to emotional distress.

How about "ma'am".

So, your basic objection is that she left too quickly? What exactly was Ashley supposed to ask Shepard, who was clearly already telling lie after lie?

But wait! The excuse for her irrational anger is "because she knew nothing." How does that NOT imply to not letting Shepard set the record straight? Shepard never lied in any case, Ashley doesn't clearly want to hear the truth. Look at the Council and Alliance whom she kisses ass for! Whle the obvious enemy is Cerberus, she is blind to the fact that the enemy is in her backyard, but as long as she can go play in her backyard ... nothing wrong with this logic if you're naive and most would agree that Ashley isn't. So what's with the admission to naivity in the letter?

[Siansonea]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...
*snip*
I don't expect that either - especially, when I know I am wrong, but you shouldn't shoot off at the mouth even if I am. But since you brought up: Everybody with Shepard states how blind Ashley is to the Alliance. She can be wrong, too, you know? Sure, a real friend would tell you you are wrong, but they wouldn't throw it in your face either appearing to begrudge you for it. That is what Ashley did and that was wrong. Anderson was more reasonable giving his view regarding the same conversation.

Shepard is a macho space marine brick—and he can't handle a few strong words from a friend who is genuinely worried about him? A friend who hasn't seen him in two years, who thought he was dead? Obviously Shepard has been lying to her for two years by allowing her to believe he was dead. Meanwhile he was off with Cerberus doing who knows what. And...why? Then there's all this preposterous talk about dying and coming back to life, which is obviously not true, and acting like Cerberus "isn't so bad".

Hate to break it to everyone, but Shepard IS a traitor, technically speaking. Sure, Anderson and Hackett are tacitly and surreptitiously supporting Shepard, but that doesn't change the facts. Cerberus is a rogue organization, and the Alliance had designated them as terrorists. Their track record isn't just "checkered"—it's littered with atrocities that rival the worst groups in human history. Shepard isn't just being a "naughty boy" here. He's turned his back on EVERYTHING the Alliance stood for.  And Ashley is an Alliance soldier. She's expected to be loyal to the Alliance. And so was Shepard.

Given all the BS, they pulled? Who is Ashley to talk? Cerberus did this and that, but you're with them and staying? You did the same Ash! You're as much of a kiss-ass as I. Call a spade a spade, damn it!!

Back up a second. What exactly did Ashley do to defy the Alliance? If I recall correctly, Shepard and Anderson defied the COUNCIL when they took the Normandy SR-1. Yes, they stole a warship that was on loan to the Council, but they were acting under the auspices and with the active collusion of Captain Anderson. Ashley was a Gunnery Chief, not a Commander or a Captain. What was she supposed to do that she didn't do?

Shepard's trying to save a galaxy and clearly getting no help! The galaxy needs all the help it can get. If that means "working with the enemy," so be it! Most times, that is what has to be done or that saying wouldn't exist! Watching ships pass isn't much help - especially not when it's a Reaper one!

"Shepard's trying to save the galaxy"? Really? Could have fooled me. Two years of covert, clandestine operations with Cerberus doesn't sound very noble and galaxy-saving to me. How is Ashley supposed to even know that Shepard is in his right mind, knowing how much Cerberus has experimented on humans and aliens in the past, and knowing that things like Indoctrination and Thorian mind control exist?

Modifié par Siansonea II, 03 juillet 2011 - 06:39 .

[dahoughtonuk]

You're forgetting one of the most important things - Kaidan and Ashley have to cleave to the Alliance stronger than most people. L2 biotic and a Williams.This cannot be emphasised enough. Both are under clouds of suspicion anyway. They have to reject you. If you haven't played ME1 why are you so cross? If you have why haven't you calmed down yet?

Everyone has high emotions because of their triggers. Yes that includes Shepard.

Shepard: Reapers
Kaidan: Conatix
Williams:Jingoism

[AngelicMachinery]

Repearized Miranda wrote...


Given all the BS, they pulled? Who is Ashley to talk? Cerberus did this and that, but you're with them and staying? You did the same Ash! You're as much of a kiss-ass as I. Call a spade a spade, damn it!!

Shepard's trying to save a galaxy and clearly getting no help! The galaxy needs all the help it can get. If that means "working with the enemy," so be it! Most times, that is what has to be done or that saying wouldn't exist! Watching ships pass isn't much help - especially not when it's a Reaper one!

Wait,  I’m not entirely sure what the VS did outside of you know following orders.  Ash in particular seems to the alliance even though her family has a black mark against them.  She’s doing what she thinks is right just as your Shepard is.  I don’t know what you expect out of her outside of her swooning at Shepard’s resplendent masculinity. 

I don’t think either character is in the wrong,  but,  I think that too many players are getting butt hurt by the situation.  Seriously,  I remember when bioware characters would leave your party if it you weren’t the right alignment.  Now them simply suggesting that in their perspective Shepard is in the wrong is a killable offence.

[Siansonea]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Would you rather I call you chick? No? Fine.

The VS (since they're written as as being interchangeable at this point) should have dug deeper at this point. When something appears to have gone off the rails, the rational thing to does not include getting so mightily pissed off and bouncing without time for an actual discussion of what the hell is going on.

Like I said, it's an understandable reaction- I'm not saying I, in real life, would be acting any differently- and pretty much a given considering the crap Cerberus has pulled, but understandable emotional reaction doesn't equate to rational reaction. Important information that could have been relayed to the few who actually know what the hell is actually going on. Neither Shepard nor the VS are given a chance in-game to really explain themselves, which is a failure on the part of the Hand of God, but it's the VS who bounces out before choosing to dig a little due to emotional distress.

How about "ma'am".

So, your basic objection is that she left too quickly? What exactly was Ashley supposed to ask Shepard, who was clearly already telling lie after lie?

But wait! The excuse for her irrational anger is "because she knew nothing." How does that NOT imply to not letting Shepard set the record straight? Shepard never lied in any case, Ashley doesn't clearly want to hear the truth. Look at the Council and Alliance whom she kisses ass for! Whle the obvious enemy is Cerberus, she is blind to the fact that the enemy is in her backyard, but as long as she can go play in her backyard ... nothing wrong with this logic if you're naive and most would agree that Ashley isn't. So what's with the admission to naivity in the letter?

What do you mean Shepard didn't lie? All that business about being dead, and then being "rebuilt" by Cerberus? We were supposed to believe that line of hooey? Ha ha, good one Shepard. You really had me going there for a second. You do know that dying-and-coming-back-to-life is impossible, right? Ashley's not an idiot, Shepard. When Shepard starts telling the truth, maybe Ashley will hear him out, but she's not going to get anything out of him in a smokey battle zone while he's flanked by his Cerberus handlers.

[Repearized Miranda]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Given all the BS, they pulled? Who is Ashley to talk? Cerberus did this and that, but you're with them and staying? You did the same Ash! You're as much of a kiss-ass as I. Call a spade a spade, damn it!!

Shepard's trying to save a galaxy and clearly getting no help! The galaxy needs all the help it can get. If that means "working with the enemy," so be it! Most times, that is what has to be done or that saying wouldn't exist! Watching ships pass isn't much help - especially not when it's a Reaper one!

Yes, because a government institution without 100% complete information is totally equivalent to Space Hamas (if Hamas also dipped into mad science.) The point is that Ashley doesn't know what the player knows. All she sees is Shep working for the terrorist organization she has reason to suspect may have been involved with the attack on Horizon. It makes sense in context of the story that she'd be ticked. Of course, I can forgive people for being shocked when this happens because Bioware almost never does stuff like this.

Not that I disagree, but I'd take Jack's resentment over the VSs and they've actually done something to her than either of them. Put Ashley through what Jack did and she can spat venom til we are no more. Until then, fk off! You had no problem saying I did!

[JamesStark]

xnoxiousx wrote...

Seriously it was so unlike her. I felt they did it just to have an excuse to not have her in the game.

I almost felt like just leaving ashley for tali she always trusted me no matter what but i decided to say true and hope they dont ****er here up in me3.

She just got confirmation we were working with an enemy of the alliance. An enemy that's been called terrorists, for good reason according to Jacob.
It doesn't help that Shepard sucked at explaining the situation and according to her Anderson wouldn't tell her the situation.
If you romance her she saids you an email, so it was clearly just anger and the feeling of betrayal that made so unforgiving.
So no, I haven't lost respect for her.
Or Kaidan. Why is this targeted only at Ash? Kaidan does the same thing.

[AngelicMachinery]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Given all the BS, they pulled? Who is Ashley to talk? Cerberus did this and that, but you're with them and staying? You did the same Ash! You're as much of a kiss-ass as I. Call a spade a spade, damn it!!

Shepard's trying to save a galaxy and clearly getting no help! The galaxy needs all the help it can get. If that means "working with the enemy," so be it! Most times, that is what has to be done or that saying wouldn't exist! Watching ships pass isn't much help - especially not when it's a Reaper one!

Yes, because a government institution without 100% complete information is totally equivalent to Space Hamas (if Hamas also dipped into mad science.) The point is that Ashley doesn't know what the player knows. All she sees is Shep working for the terrorist organization she has reason to suspect may have been involved with the attack on Horizon. It makes sense in context of the story that she'd be ticked. Of course, I can forgive people for being shocked when this happens because Bioware almost never does stuff like this.

Not that I disagree, but I'd take Jack's resentment over the VSs and they've actually done something to her than either of them. Put Ashley through what Jack did and she can spat venom til we are no more. Until then, fk off! You had no problem saying I did!

Ashley has seen what Cerberus has done,  your point is invalid.

[Asari_Party]

"I can't tell the aliens from the animals"

That's why I lost respect for Ashley.

[Siansonea]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Given all the BS, they pulled? Who is Ashley to talk? Cerberus did this and that, but you're with them and staying? You did the same Ash! You're as much of a kiss-ass as I. Call a spade a spade, damn it!!

Shepard's trying to save a galaxy and clearly getting no help! The galaxy needs all the help it can get. If that means "working with the enemy," so be it! Most times, that is what has to be done or that saying wouldn't exist! Watching ships pass isn't much help - especially not when it's a Reaper one!

Yes, because a government institution without 100% complete information is totally equivalent to Space Hamas (if Hamas also dipped into mad science.) The point is that Ashley doesn't know what the player knows. All she sees is Shep working for the terrorist organization she has reason to suspect may have been involved with the attack on Horizon. It makes sense in context of the story that she'd be ticked. Of course, I can forgive people for being shocked when this happens because Bioware almost never does stuff like this.

Not that I disagree, but I'd take Jack's resentment over the VSs and they've actually done something to her than either of them. Put Ashley through what Jack did and she can spat venom til we are no more. Until then, fk off! You had no problem saying I did!

So, Cerberus murdering an Alliance Rear Admiral, a man with a wife and kids, that was "nothing personal"?

And Cerberus torturing Corporal Toombs, an Alliance Marine on Akuze, that was "no big deal because it wasn't me personally being tortured"?

Nuh-uh.

[Iakus]

Siansonea II wrote...

So how should Ashley have said what she said?

"Hi Shepard! I thought you were dead! I'm so glad you're still alive! You look great! Have you been working out? Oh, and I see you have some new friends! Cerberus, I see. Yeah, we went through some stuff with Cerberus in the old days, didn't we? LOL. Yeah, good times. Admiral Kahoku's widow says hi, by the way. Oh, and I ran into Corporal Toombs the other day. Still having nightmares from when those Cerberus scientists were injecting him with thresher maw acid, but he says hi too! So yeah, I would totally go with you, but I really need to get back to the Citadel and continue my own mission, but that's really just so I can be in the next game—er, mission. It was SO good catching up with you Shepard, maybe next game—uh, mission—we can get together and pick up where we left off before Ilos, huh? I've got some new poems to share with you. Bye Shepard! Love you!"

How about:

Ash: Cerberus?  Shepard you saw the things that they did!  How can you even think about working with those terrorists?

Miranda:  Hmph, typical Alliance reaction

Shepard:  I don't like it either, Ash.  I remember those experiments we saw Cerberus performing.  But for right now they're the only ones opposing the Collectors and preparing for the Reapers.  I fully expect them to betray me at some point.  That's why I need people like you with me.  People I can trust to have my back.

Miranda:  Hello?  Cerberus operative!  Standing right here!

Ash:  I'm sorry Shepard.  I know you think you're doing the right thing here.  But I can't follow you this time.  I'm still an Alliance soldier, with duties and obligations I can't just put aside.  I have to report this to Anderson.  I'll tell him what I saw here.  And what you said about the Collectors.  Maybe he can get something done on a higher level.  In the meantime... be careful...  You know what the road to Hell is paved with, right?

Shepard:  Good intentions

Ash:  Exactly.  Take care, skipper.  Stay alive out there.  Someday soon I want to hear the whole story.

Miranda:  Why am I even here?

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Given all the BS, they pulled? Who is Ashley to talk? Cerberus did this and that, but you're with them and staying? You did the same Ash! You're as much of a kiss-ass as I. Call a spade a spade, damn it!!

Shepard's trying to save a galaxy and clearly getting no help! The galaxy needs all the help it can get. If that means "working with the enemy," so be it! Most times, that is what has to be done or that saying wouldn't exist! Watching ships pass isn't much help - especially not when it's a Reaper one!

Yes, because a government institution without 100% complete information is totally equivalent to Space Hamas (if Hamas also dipped into mad science.) The point is that Ashley doesn't know what the player knows. All she sees is Shep working for the terrorist organization she has reason to suspect may have been involved with the attack on Horizon. It makes sense in context of the story that she'd be ticked. Of course, I can forgive people for being shocked when this happens because Bioware almost never does stuff like this.

Not that I disagree, but I'd take Jack's resentment over the VSs and they've actually done something to her than either of them. Put Ashley through what Jack did and she can spat venom til we are no more. Until then, fk off! You had no problem saying I did!

Yeah, Jack working for Cerberus is also pretty implausible. Which is strange, because they wrote her for ME2. And btw there's no minimum trauma quotient a character has to fulfill before they react negatively to someone joining Space Hamas.

[Repearized Miranda]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...


Given all the BS, they pulled? Who is Ashley to talk? Cerberus did this and that, but you're with them and staying? You did the same Ash! You're as much of a kiss-ass as I. Call a spade a spade, damn it!!

Shepard's trying to save a galaxy and clearly getting no help! The galaxy needs all the help it can get. If that means "working with the enemy," so be it! Most times, that is what has to be done or that saying wouldn't exist! Watching ships pass isn't much help - especially not when it's a Reaper one!

Wait,  I’m not entirely sure what the VS did outside of you know following orders.  Ash in particular seems to the alliance even though her family has a black mark against them.  She’s doing what she thinks is right just as your Shepard is.  I don’t know what you expect out of her outside of her swooning at Shepard’s resplendent masculinity. 

I don’t think either character is in the wrong,  but,  I think that too many players are getting butt hurt by the situation.  Seriously,  I remember when bioware characters would leave your party if it you weren’t the right alignment.  Now them simply suggesting that in their perspective Shepard is in the wrong is a killable offence.

But Shepard followed orders, too. Did s/he not? S/he didn't come to be reamed for having switched uniforms while you (the VS) just hides, What I expected her to do was not be so damn snarky. I expect that kind of crap from Jack - not Ashley!

Well, I for one, don't want Ashley killed, but damn she should have seen what happened to Elnora when Shepard gave her no chance to explain herself. Ashley's very lucky that did not happen!! Again, if she was NOT wrong, why did she apologize; yet, wouldn't let me explain a damn thing (dialog options aren't the point)

[Siansonea]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...


Given all the BS, they pulled? Who is Ashley to talk? Cerberus did this and that, but you're with them and staying? You did the same Ash! You're as much of a kiss-ass as I. Call a spade a spade, damn it!!

Shepard's trying to save a galaxy and clearly getting no help! The galaxy needs all the help it can get. If that means "working with the enemy," so be it! Most times, that is what has to be done or that saying wouldn't exist! Watching ships pass isn't much help - especially not when it's a Reaper one!

Wait,  I’m not entirely sure what the VS did outside of you know following orders.  Ash in particular seems to the alliance even though her family has a black mark against them.  She’s doing what she thinks is right just as your Shepard is.  I don’t know what you expect out of her outside of her swooning at Shepard’s resplendent masculinity. 

I don’t think either character is in the wrong,  but,  I think that too many players are getting butt hurt by the situation.  Seriously,  I remember when bioware characters would leave your party if it you weren’t the right alignment.  Now them simply suggesting that in their perspective Shepard is in the wrong is a killable offence.

But Shepard followed orders, too. Did s/he not? S/he didn't come to be reamed for having switched uniforms while you (the VS) just hides, What I expected her to do was not be so damn snarky. I expect that kind of crap from Jack - not Ashley!

Well, I for one, don't want Ashley killed, but damn she should have seen what happened to Elnora when Shepard gave her no chance to explain herself. Ashley's very lucky that did not happen!! Again, if she was NOT wrong, why did she apologize; yet, wouldn't let me explain a damn thing (dialog options aren't the point)

She probably apologized because Captain Anderson finally gave her some input after Horizon. I mean, how's he going to stonewall her about Shepard being alive once she actually TALKS with Shepard?

[Repearized Miranda]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Given all the BS, they pulled? Who is Ashley to talk? Cerberus did this and that, but you're with them and staying? You did the same Ash! You're as much of a kiss-ass as I. Call a spade a spade, damn it!!

Shepard's trying to save a galaxy and clearly getting no help! The galaxy needs all the help it can get. If that means "working with the enemy," so be it! Most times, that is what has to be done or that saying wouldn't exist! Watching ships pass isn't much help - especially not when it's a Reaper one!

Yes, because a government institution without 100% complete information is totally equivalent to Space Hamas (if Hamas also dipped into mad science.) The point is that Ashley doesn't know what the player knows. All she sees is Shep working for the terrorist organization she has reason to suspect may have been involved with the attack on Horizon. It makes sense in context of the story that she'd be ticked. Of course, I can forgive people for being shocked when this happens because Bioware almost never does stuff like this.

Not that I disagree, but I'd take Jack's resentment over the VSs and they've actually done something to her than either of them. Put Ashley through what Jack did and she can spat venom til we are no more. Until then, fk off! You had no problem saying I did!

Yeah, Jack working for Cerberus is also pretty implausible. Which is strange, because they wrote her for ME2. And btw there's no minimum trauma quotient a character has to fulfill before they react negatively to someone joining Space Hamas.

I know, but people do say that alot. "You haven't been through what I have, so you don't know." Neither the VS nor Shepard has been in each other shoes, but to say that either one has all or no room to talk; yet, that is how Ashley reacted.

Btw, she'd say the same damn thing: "I ain't working for Cerberus! They can KMA for all I care!" If she did, nobody would have a problem, but this isn't the case for Shepard.

[Iakus]

Siansonea II wrote...

What do you mean Shepard didn't lie? All that business about being dead, and then being "rebuilt" by Cerberus? We were supposed to believe that line of hooey? Ha ha, good one Shepard. You really had me going there for a second. You do know that dying-and-coming-back-to-life is impossible, right? Ashley's not an idiot, Shepard. When Shepard starts telling the truth, maybe Ashley will hear him out, but she's not going to get anything out of him in a smokey battle zone while he's flanked by his Cerberus handlers.

Odd, my Shepard said that he was "in a coma for two years" while Cerberus rebuilt him.   Not exactly the truth, but way more believable than "dead"

Besides, Ash has seen and done a number of incredible things around Shepard:

The beacon

Fighting through armies of geth, pirates, mercs, and yes even Cerberus cells

A ginormous plant that's been around since the days of thee Protheans and has mind control powers

Saw the rachni queen freed (Ash said it wasn't a good idea, but stood by me, so take that those that say "Miranda stood by me but Ash didn't") Not to mention battling rachni across several worlds (thanks again, Cerberus)

Volunteered for a dangerous assignment on Virmire, and nearly died, only to have Shepard swoop in and save her.

Helped steal the Alliance's most advanced warship from the Citadel to take it to a lost planet called Ilos 

Drove a Mako through a mass relay

Pretty much the entire Battle of the CItadel

So seeing Shepard fighting alongside Cerberus doesn't make one think this might be another "crazy Shepard situation"?  That maybe there's a story behind it?  That maybe, just maybe, Shepard is doing something to stop the Reapers he'd been telling everyone about?  Remember, Ash is one of maybe a half dozen people in the galaxy who knows(and believes)  the whole story about Shepard's visions and the Reapers.

[AngelicMachinery]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...


Given all the BS, they pulled? Who is Ashley to talk? Cerberus did this and that, but you're with them and staying? You did the same Ash! You're as much of a kiss-ass as I. Call a spade a spade, damn it!!

Shepard's trying to save a galaxy and clearly getting no help! The galaxy needs all the help it can get. If that means "working with the enemy," so be it! Most times, that is what has to be done or that saying wouldn't exist! Watching ships pass isn't much help - especially not when it's a Reaper one!

Wait,  I’m not entirely sure what the VS did outside of you know following orders.  Ash in particular seems to the alliance even though her family has a black mark against them.  She’s doing what she thinks is right just as your Shepard is.  I don’t know what you expect out of her outside of her swooning at Shepard’s resplendent masculinity. 

I don’t think either character is in the wrong,  but,  I think that too many players are getting butt hurt by the situation.  Seriously,  I remember when bioware characters would leave your party if it you weren’t the right alignment.  Now them simply suggesting that in their perspective Shepard is in the wrong is a killable offence.

But Shepard followed orders, too. Did s/he not? S/he didn't come to be reamed for having switched uniforms while you (the VS) just hides, What I expected her to do was not be so damn snarky. I expect that kind of crap from Jack - not Ashley!

Well, I for one, don't want Ashley killed, but damn she should have seen what happened to Elnora when Shepard gave her no chance to explain herself. Ashley's very lucky that did not happen!! Again, if she was NOT wrong, why did she apologize; yet, wouldn't let me explain a damn thing (dialog options aren't the point)

She apologized because I expect bioware realized the **** STORM that would develop when a character showed a back bone to Shepard.  The main character isn’t allowed to be questioned only worshipped.  I think they were right, because look at the problems people are having with a character expressing themselves instead of getting on their knees and expressing their devotion to the divine Shepard.

I personally think the apology is stupid,   and in a good deal of my play throughs I rarely receive it.  It just makes the VS look like they’re still holding a candle for a character who in their eyes sold their soul. 

People say a lot about Trust,  but,  oddly enough Kaidan/Ash were right about Cerberus in the end and yet, people still can’t admit that perhaps Space Jesus might have made the wrong choice in snuggling up with TIM.  (He is IRRESTIBLE so I can understand some Shepard’s selling out.)

[Iakus]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

She apologized because I expect bioware realized the **** STORM that would develop when a character showed a back bone to Shepard.  The main character isn’t allowed to be questioned only worshipped.  I think they were right, because look at the problems people are having with a character expressing themselves instead of getting on their knees and expressing their devotion to the divine Shepard.

I personally think the apology is stupid,   and in a good deal of my play throughs I rarely receive it.  It just makes the VS look like they’re still holding a candle for a character who in their eyes sold their soul. 

People say a lot about Trust,  but,  oddly enough Kaidan/Ash were right about Cerberus in the end and yet, people still can’t admit that perhaps Space Jesus might have made the wrong choice in snuggling up with TIM.  (He is IRRESTIBLE so I can understand some Shepard’s selling out.)

So..where's Wrex's apology?