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Poor writing killed DA2. Agree or disagree?


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#1
XX55XX

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I didn't mind how DA2 took a step backwards and "streamlined" the gameplay. DA2 played fine. The recycled caves and mansions? No doubt, all part of the pressures of a two year development cycle. You see, I was quite forgiving when it came to most of DA2's shortcomings, but there was one shortcoming I could not forgive:

The bad writing.

Yes, the dialogue was good, for the most part. Entertaining, even. The party banter was excellent. But dialogue constitutes only a small part of a game's script.

In most stories, you have a pyramid-style chart which waxes upwards towards the climax, and ebbs downwards towards a conclusion. They taught this back in my eighth-grade English class seven years ago. My old English teacher says that most good stories follow such a diagram. DAO had such a pyramid as part of its narrative structure, and so did many of BioWare's past games.

Yet, DA2's narrative decided to flatline itself for some reason. So, did BioWare's writers achieve something revolutionary by not following the model set forth by centuries of writing tradition? No. There was no excitement, no sense of rising action, nor any sense of falling action. Hence, the game's visible lack of progression dulled any sort of suspense within the player, and perhaps even discouraged a few players from finishing the game. It was boring. Hardly entertaining. Many events in the game were abrupt, occurring without the support of any suspense or anticipation.

Additionally, my eighth grade English class also discussed the concept of conflict quite a bit. I'm sure most of you know what it is, so I won't regurgitate the dictionary for you here. Nearly every story, regardless of its medium, has a conflict, and in some cases, many sub-conflicts. Conflicts keep an audience engaged and allow characters to express themselves fully.

BioWare did include a conflict in DA2. Yes, they did. But it resembled more of a series of sub-plots more than anything else - not strong enough to stand on their own, and yet, BioWare allowed them to do so anyway.

What was Hawke fighting for? At first, it looked as if he was fighting for riches. Okay, cliched, but perfectly fine.

The sub-plot BioWare introduces in the first act is fine, but they forgot to include one thing: a dramatic arc of events that would keep a player engaged and willing to keep playing. In short, by creating a series of "kill-everything" quests that lead to even more killing in the Deep Roads, BioWare killed the dramatic element in the first act then and there. There was no attempt to mix things up or even introduce any complications that may have a player scratching his or her head. The feeble attempt at drama near the end of the act does little to salvage it. Again, this relates back to my first point of DA's lack of narrative progression.

I am not going to write anymore, since I am tired. But, if you have scrolled down just to read my conclusion, then I can say only this: BioWare, through some pretty bad writing, managed to strip away the most important elements of a good story: drama. Without drama to keep the story moving and the player entertained, who would continue playing? Would you read a story about a man who eats his pancakes without encountering any resistance? There is a reason why centuries of writers have utilized these traditions, time and time again:

Because it's the only way of making sure that a reader doesn't fall asleep. And BioWare sure did.

Modifié par XX55XX, 03 juillet 2011 - 01:53 .


#2
ipgd

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I disagree. I didn't think it was boring. I was interested in the story, and found it dramatic.

Not all narratives must adhere to a strict eighth grade story format.

#3
Persephone

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Disagree. Preferred it to DAO's writing for the most part. When I'm less exhausted, I might write a detailed response. :happy::lol:^_^

#4
KnightofPhoenix

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For me, absolutely. I can tolerate broken games gameplay wise (Alpha Protocol). Not games (at least RPGs) with stories I find weak and uninteresting. Which is what I thought of DA2's story.

To be fair, I am also tired of Bioware's whole mindset / paradigm / philosophy when it comes to writing, whether it's structure or concepts (or how they are presented).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 03 juillet 2011 - 02:06 .


#5
upsettingshorts

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XX55XX wrote...

What was Hawke fighting for?.


They left this up for the player to decide, to you know, roleplay.   That it failed to accomodate every possible motivation and goal for Hawke is a limitation of the cRPG genre and certainly not unique to DA2.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 03 juillet 2011 - 02:06 .


#6
whykikyouwhy

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Disagree. I was drawn into DA2 - by both banter and the unfolding of the events in Kirkwall. Few stories are perfect. And conflict did exist - not just the big bad, but within and amongst the characters. This story held my interest, through multiple playthroughs no less. I found it dramatic, but most of all, I found it fun.

#7
Cutlass Jack

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Disagree. Most problems were caused by poor development time. Others were caused by design issues. The writing itself was fine.

#8
Dio Demon

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I think the writing was good it was just the execution of the game and following traditional writing gets EXTREMELY boring. Such as the standard good vs evil story. Evil guy hurts good guy, good guy takes the fight to evil guy. Evil guy kills someone important to the good guy. Good guy defeats evil guy. THE END

Bioware tried to brake the perspective of good vs evil by attempting to show both evil and good sides of the mages and templars. But it was kind of blown out of proportion by not balancing the good and evil aspects of the two sides.

So how do we know that Bioware writers didn't write a good story? Perhaps the game developers had to cut some things that the writers wrote due to the short time frame. So we don't know if it was the writing or the actual game development. So until the developers come out and say if it was A) or B) or even the combination of the both you can't really make assumptions of a certain team. It's like saying a man is guilty of murder without any real evidence.

#9
erynnar

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Disagree. More like three stories that didn't get time to be fully fleshed out so they were disjointed. The writing isn't bad, just rushed I think.

Edited to say Crazy-Eyed-One said it better.

Modifié par erynnar, 03 juillet 2011 - 02:12 .


#10
Chiramu

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I disagree with the OP too; although many aspects of Dragon Age 2 could have been written much better than they are, mostly in concerning to the party members and written romances (the writing of the bisexuality could have been a lot better for Anders).
So overall it's good writing, but the writers divide the characters among themselves, so the quality can dip a bit depending on which writer is writing which thing.

#11
TEWR

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Sort of.


I think Act 1 and 2 should've connected to the Mage-Templar conflict a lot more than they did, using their plotlines.


connecting Meredith and her fanatic zealotry against mages with how the Qunari watch their mages would've been great imo.


And obviously, Act 3 needed more time.

#12
ipgd

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Chiramu wrote...

(the writing of the bisexuality could have been a lot better for Anders).


:ph34r:[Image used as commentary/emote deleted as spam]:ph34r:

i can't escape these comments

i can't escape

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 03 juillet 2011 - 05:27 .


#13
Dio Demon

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erynnar wrote...
 Crazy-Eyed-One said it better.


Well that's something I don't hear everyday Posted Image

#14
Aaleel

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I thought that the story was disjointed and could have been better.

But that is not what killed the game for me. Had some other things been done better I could have lived with it.

#15
Cyne

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I agree. The story just never built up momentum, there was no reason to care about what was happening or any of the characters. It felt like a series of side quests. I liked the ideas though, for eg. I think Mages vs Templars could have been very interesting, but it just never reached its potential.

#16
Chiramu

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ipgd wrote...

Chiramu wrote...

(the writing of the bisexuality could have been a lot better for Anders).




i can't escape these comments

i can't escape


?

#17
Realmzmaster

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The writing is good. We will never know how much of the story had to be cut ( if any) to meet the deadline. The writers could have planned a longer story, but like movies certain things hit the cutting floor. The writing in Act 3 does not hold together. I really feel (my opinion) that the writers actually wrote a different battle in Act 3 for a pro-mage Hawke in that Osrino does not go Harvester and actually helps fight against Meredith, but they did not have time to implement it. I would hope that is the case.

#18
AtreiyaN7

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I would disagree. There were problems with DA2, but the overarching story and how it changes Thedas interested me, along with Hawke's family and interaction with my companions. Aveline's attempts to woo Donnic and the writing were quite amusing, and I was moved by what happened with Leandra. Interacting with the Arishok in Act II was quite good as well, and the qunari vs. Chantry issue interested me.

On the mage-templar issue, I think that could have been handled differently - more subtlety/complexity would have been nice. Also, Act I was definitely too slow, and they could have fleshed some things out better. However, I think the writing was decent on the whole. And seriously, eighth-grade writing class?

I've watched a lot of different films, and Rashomon stands out as a non-standard story which revolves around a rape-murder and the accounts of four witnesses at a trial, each one of which gives you different insight onto the events that transpired. You don't have an actual hero/protagonist, and no one comes out looking good in this film. It's still an excellent movie (and story) for different reasons than, say, a fantasy epic like TLotR where you do have a hero on a journey and more traditional conflict between forces of good and evil, etc.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 03 juillet 2011 - 03:00 .


#19
Therece

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The writing was alright, and it did what it needed too.. Mainly get the point across of the Chantry/Circle becoming Broken in someway, And the storyline for me was somewhat interesting besides the whole.. Never being able to choose anything really.

#20
XX55XX

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Yes, bits and bits of the story were quite good. Leandra's death, Merrill and the mirror, etc, were all quite good on their own. But, then again, it may be simply a matter of taste. I prefer stories that link back to a greater narrative. DA2 failed to provide enough "linkage" for my tastes.

There was no real overarching narrative, unless one counts the Mage vs. Templar conflict as one. And even then, it is presented as a sub-plot until the very end. While it may mirror what occurs in real life, it doesn't necessarily make for a better and more entertaining story.

As for stories that follow a non-traditional format, I may have read only one, and it was entitled My Antonia. That book was about a boy growing up in rural Nebraska in the late 1800s and presented a series of subplots that didn't relate to any overarching narrative. I disliked that book for its lack of focus, and disliked it even more because I was made to read it in school.

Again, a matter of taste.

#21
Monica83

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I agree the plot suffer of very terrible error of coherence...

Things like the Resurrection of Leliana if you haw killed her in the game...
In a point of wiew of the narrative the skips of time felt forced.. Example in your first year in kirkwall you have not the chance to play that timeline.. the story just skip after a year.. Considering the hero of ferelden defeated the blight in this year for me the writers miss an awesome opportunity to give immersion on the plot...Because i think if bioware maded the first year playable would be interesting to listen around how people talk about the blight and the hero of ferelden...
But those time skip don't give you even a minimal idea of what happened.. and this is a true shame..and i am a bit surprised bioware missed totally this opportunity....

#22
csfteeeer

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Kinda Agree.

There are many moments that could have had a much better writting and overall direction, rarely does the game really builds up to something, even if it's big (the thing with Anders, you know), and there are many moments where it is FILLED with Plot conveniences (Why the F**K does either Carver or Bethany get, well you know, and not Someone Else? it's Never Explained, are they inmune? what? it wouldn't have bothered me if nothing had happened, but it did, and it makes no sense).

But some parts were well written ( I suppose Merrill's Arc was alright).

But then again, that's not a reason for me to like a game, and i still despise DA2.

#23
syllogi

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The writing was fine, up until the third act, where it was obvious that they were rushed and needed to bang out an ending that would encompass every playstyle without regard to the actions taken in the previous acts.

I LOVE the characters. Pretty much all of them are great to me. I enjoyed the story, until the end. It was only then, when I saw what was going on, that I realized that this game was made by people who had no interest in putting their name on a quality product. That is the unforgivable thing to me. I can forgive recycled areas, creepy mannequins littering the city, horrible side quests, a shameful lack of puzzles, boring combat, and a general lack of genuine RPG elements. I cannot forgive combining all of these things with a rushed, sloppy story, slapping it together, and claiming that I can't "handle" the awesomeness of this new game.

#24
Morroian

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Disagree.

#25
Special_Agent_Goodwrench

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The only thing that hurt (not killed) DA2 was the rather small development time. Well, there were a few questionable writing decisions, such as why did either B or C had to "go" at the begining of the game? It made no sense to me. That's the only thing that got me into "raeg mode" as far as the writing goes. Act III could have been ironed out with additional dev time, but my problem would require rewriting certain parts and adding more dialogue among other things.