231 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

DA2 was killed?

Since when?

[Annarl]

phoenixgoddess27 wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Act 2 was the BEST written....

The Qunari aspect was the most interesting part of the game.

ACT 3 was a complete mess and the worst aspect was very little was revealed about Meredith or Orsino.

Orsino was the WORST developed of the two and that was what really ruined ACT 3.

Indeed. I would have loved to have known more about him since I chose to side with the mages(Even though that didn't really matter in the end).
Not to mention for his response to my Snarky/Sarcastic Hawke when accepting his quest. I'd play DA2 again for that reply

In my opinion, if they were going to have us choose a side, they should have given us more background/information to go on rather than what was said during their lovebird arguments and people saying Meredith was insane. I hardly recall anyone mentioning if Orsino was insane. Don't tell me they were, SHOW me more hints before the very end. To me, this should have been done in Act II.

For me the game fell apart in Act 3.  Okay, the quest with Hawke's mother was hokey to me.  Straight out of a bad B movie, and I mean a really bad one.  But Act 3 is terrible.  Too short and not enough development and has over the top villians. Both essentially flip out, one is insane due to a lyrium sword and the other snaps under pressure and turns into a Haverster.  Plus your choices seem to have no impact on who's attacking you in some of these quests.  If you're pro-mage and have been publicly why are mages attacking you or vice versa.   By the end I just wanted the game to be done.

I still don't think the game was horrible.  It just wasn't the quality I expected from Bioware.  

Modifié par omearaee, 03 juillet 2011 - 07:32 .

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...
They already said the paraphrase system with icons for tone isn't going anywhere. And it doesn't need to either. Yes, the paraphrases need to be better written so there's no mistake about what your character is going to say, but just because it didn't work out perfectly the first time around doesn't mean you need to scrap it and come up with something else.

I just think they're making it more difficult than need be with the paraphrases. And with the graphical icons you're stuck with a very limited amount of possible responses leaving it such that they're still rather vague what they mean, especially when combined with any possible vague paraphrasing.

I think Gaider made mention of at least the option of a toggle for full text being visible, but the Deus Ex:HR system  gives you a more detailed tone plus allows you to know at least in part exactly what the PC will say, since the the displayed text is often times part of a larger response. It would be like if they simply had the exact text of the paraphrase embedded in Hawke's (or Shepard or whoever) actual response.

So you can still have your cinematic surprise BioWare seems so infatuated with while also allowing a much greater sense of player agency in that you hear the PC say exactly what you selected during the response, and with the persuasion attempt conversations with the nuanced tones, it makes for some very satisfying conversation moments, IMO.

Modifié par Brockololly, 03 juillet 2011 - 07:51 .

[Metalunatic]

Disagree. Writing was the least failed element in the game.

[xkg]

Mesina2 wrote...

DA2 was killed?

Since when?

8.III.2011 [†]

[Sanguinerin]

I think the overall problem was the short development cycle. The writing wasn't bad, just like the ideas. It was just too much change in too little time.

[ReallyRue]

I liked the game.

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
They already said the paraphrase system with icons for tone isn't going anywhere. And it doesn't need to either. Yes, the paraphrases need to be better written so there's no mistake about what your character is going to say, but just because it didn't work out perfectly the first time around doesn't mean you need to scrap it and come up with something else.

I just think they're making it more difficult than need be with the paraphrases. And with the graphical icons you're stuck with a very limited amount of possible responses leaving it such that they're still rather vague what they mean, especially when combined with any possible vague paraphrasing.

I think Gaider made mention of at least the option of a toggle for full text being visible, but the Deus Ex:HR system  gives you a more detailed tone plus allows you to know at least in part exactly what the PC will say, since the the displayed text is often times part of a larger response. It would be like if they simply had the exact text of the paraphrase embedded in Hawke's (or Shepard or whoever) actual response.

So you can still have your cinematic surprise BioWare seems so infatuated with while also allowing a much greater sense of player agency in that you hear the PC say exactly what you selected during the response, and with the persuasion attempt conversations with the nuanced tones, it makes for some very satisfying conversation moments, IMO.

Actually no, you had the same amount as in DA:O. The difference is that in DA:O investigate options weren't seprarated from replies that advanced the dialogue forward. But the amount of possible replies is still the same. DA2 simply gave each dialogue advancing response an appropriate tone icon so you can be certain as to the intent behind it.

As for Deus Ex dialogue, it sounds interesting but it still leaves you in the same spot that DA2 did - you don't know how the rest of that response will come out. Having a paraphrase that properly reflects everything your character is about to say still sounds better, imo, provided it's written properly.

[Savber100]

Well seeing how Jennifer Hepler wrote almost a third of the characters in DA2, I'm not surprised.

Seriously, I'm sure she has potential but someone needs to hold her back from butchering her characters with cheesy dialogue and 2D characteristics that attempts to be complex.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

HallowedWarden wrote...

I think the overall problem was the short development cycle.

I agree with this. The writers are clearly capable of producing much better games, but there's a huge difference between giving someone four years to write and edit and one year to write and edit. It's also possible they had more editors looking over their shoulders in DA:O.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Savber100 wrote...

Well seeing how Jennifer Hepler wrote almost a third of the characters in DA2, I'm not surprised.

Seriously, I'm sure she has potential but someone needs to hold her back from butchering her characters with cheesy dialogue and 2D characteristics that attempts to be complex.

I disagree. I thought she did an excellent job with Anders, for example, and the 'cheesy' dialogue suited his character. He's a very passionate and romantic person. Personally I think Anders story in one of the better in the game. It really shows all the changes he's going through. He's not the same person in Act III as he is in Act I and for me it was all very believable.  

[Tirfan]

Well, maybe I have to admit that he isn't exactly the same person in act3 as in act1, but it was obvious from act1 forward how he was going to develop, he struggles with Justice, finally loses it and then is ready to do anything to fight the good fight. His action in act3 never came as any surprise for me, so I personally wouldn't call that very good writing, I would have liked him to develop more naturally, in a way that wasn't foreshadowed from the first time you meet him.

[ref]

Savber100 wrote...

Well seeing how Jennifer Hepler wrote almost a third of the characters in DA2, I'm not surprised.

Seriously, I'm sure she has potential but someone needs to hold her back from butchering her characters with cheesy dialogue and 2D characteristics that attempts to be complex.

Agreed.

[Cornelius119]

I loved the story the problem with DA2 was that it was rushed.
The way that they concentrated on society and religion made it so much richer than the typical good vs. evil. (And to understand how a great piece of literature is made you need to look beyond your eighth grade teacher)

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Cornelius119 wrote...

great piece of literature

?

[TheRealJayDee]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Disagree. The fans killed this game.

...okay...?!

[Apollo Starflare]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Act 2 was the BEST written....

The Qunari aspect was the most interesting part of the game.

I used to think that when I took it in isolation. Then I looked from a distance, scratched my head, and wondered why it was there in the first place.

I think it would have done the game a lot of good, if the Qunari were scrapped and Act 2 was devoted to mage / Templars  as well.

As much as I enjoyed Act 2 I actually wouldn't have been opposed to that. It makes a lot of sense really, especially given the time they had to develop the game (focus on one epic plot and not several).

I have posted ideas about how the Mage/Templar issue could have been made even more of a focus from the get go previously and I'm sure everyone either has their own similar ideas or has read some. As such I won't go into that here but needless to say I think that with an Act 2 more heavily focused on the Mage/Templar plot, and with further addition of plot points relating to it that progress throughout the course of the game, that it would have provided a more complete experience with smoother transition between acts.

With that said I wouldn't scrap the Qunari completely. Their plot in the game serves a potentially vital role: Setting up future Qunari related events and giving players further understanding of them. Reduced to a sub plot seeded throughout the game (perhaps even extending it through to the midway point of Act 3 before things get apocalyptic) would have still worked with the expanded Mage/Templar emphasis.

All in all I still think the sheer scope of the game required a longer development time though. It's like someone thought of setting it in a less expansive environment to save some time and resources, but then filled that environment with an incredibly rich and nuanced plot that DID require a whole lot of time if it were ever to be done justice.

[IRMcGhee]

I don't think the writing was at all poor, although I do think that they put too much important information in the codex rather than in-game (especially regarding the plot). Act 3 could have done with being a bit longer too.

[Joy Divison]

As much as I think DA2 did not live up to DAO, I wouldn't say it was "killed."

The writing was uneven; quite good in parts, and in other obvious that it was rushed.

I guess what I'd say if you are one of those fans who were disappointed more than me and consider DA2, I wouldn't blame it on the writers - the executives at EA who rushed the project presented the corpse of DA2 to the writers.

[Edhriano]

The story 'had' potential, the major let down was act 1, the best one was act 2,
act 3 pretty much what killed it. Overall, the story felt 'rushed', perhaps if given
proper time like 6-8 months the story 'could have' been better.

Poor writing did not killed DA2, but it sure is contribute a lot.

But hey that is my opinion .

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...

Jabba L4 wrote...
L-long term... consequences? Just *what* could have he been possibly referring to?

Like I said, I'm pretty sure that interview was conducted from before the game was released so thats when they were still calling the game possibly  their "most reactive game to date."

Bioware thinks showing consequences in-game = reactive, versus having multiple plot branches. Nothing particularly confusing about it.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

I disagree. There are many bad things about Dragon Age 2, but this isn't one.

[Lord_Valandil]

I wouldn't say it's all the fault of the writers, as I enjoyed the story of Origins and Awakening.
And David Gaider wrote two great books.
They're capable of writing wonderful stories and characters. But...I guess they didn't have enough time to deliver something better. The writing in DA2 was really, really poor, and the plot suffered because of that. But...if there are some who like it, who am I to say they're wrong?
It's just my opinion.

[erynnar]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

I wouldn't say it's all the fault of the writers, as I enjoyed the story of Origins and Awakening.
And David Gaider wrote two great books.
They're capable of writing wonderful stories and characters. But...I guess they didn't have enough time to deliver something better. The writing in DA2 was really, really poor, and the plot suffered because of that. But...if there are some who like it, who am I to say they're wrong?
It's just my opinion.

This^ And I think it was due to being rushed. It's really hard to be creative and produce quality when you're rushed.