231 réponses à ce sujet

[Aquilas]

Writing, gameplay, maps--all these elements indicate DA2 was rushed. And rushing the game meant lower quality across the board.

The best example I can think of is...the Awesome Buh-in. A whole lotta energy was devoted to the "Buh-in=Awesome" equation and not enough to story, character development, and role-playing.

For me, DA2 is a pretty good game--a pretty good action/adventure game. As a role-playing game in the BioWare tradition it's an Epic Fail. And rushed writing is one cause of that failure.

[Feanor_II]

Poor writing is only one of the many problems or failures DA2 had.

[senior caliente]

Stop wining about DA2 if u dont like it SELL IT DONT BUY IT ANNYMORE and dont come to the forums

[xkg]

^^^ Thank you very much for your kind advice senior caliente, but I think I'll stay.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

I actually the story because it's doing something with a genre that tends to get stale. I think acts II and III are some of the best storytelling in recent games.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

Disagree. The fans killed this game.

...okay...?!

I think s/he means all of the DA2 haters. Some of them I feel quite frankly never liked the game even when it was announced to be made. They just read/heard the name and hated it.

[Elhanan]

Nope; writing was fine. Next....

[Monica83]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

Disagree. The fans killed this game.

...okay...?!

I think s/he means all of the DA2 haters. Some of them I feel quite frankly never liked the game even when it was announced to be made. They just read/heard the name and hated it.

This is not true some people didint liked the game after try the demo or whatching videos or listen rewiews considered origin was so different as a game and dragon age 2 is so different from the first game its normal if someone is upset with bioware considering they maded  a low quality game...

[Pasquale1234]

Master Shiori wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...
The conversation wheel is okay, but the choices need a more descriptive suggestion of intent. For example, in ME 2 the paraphrasing works well there, but the intent can be rather misleading in DA II, even with the icons designed to assist with intent.

I hope that they just ditch the graphical tone icons going forward and do something similar to Deus Ex: Human Revolution where you have a text tone/intent which when moused over, has the full text or a part of the spoken full text dialogue pop up.

So for instance, there is a scenario where you're trying to talk down a terrorist with a hostage and the tones are "Empathize," "Reason" and "Humble" and when you highlight any of those you get a full sentence of the dialogue the PC will say. Sometimes the full text is the entire full dialogue and other times its one key sentence of the dialogue but its never a BioWare style misleading paraphrase.  And its up to the player to read the terrorist's emotions and thinking to get him to release the hostage.

Thats more like a substitute for a single line persuade option, but the Deus Ex: HR dialogue system is easily my favorite as far as voiced PC's go. The graphical tone icons need to go as they don't allow enough nuance in responses and end up being too vague and inconsistent when combined with the possibility of misleading paraphrases too.

They already said the paraphrase system with icons for tone isn't going anywhere. And it doesn't need to either. Yes, the paraphrases need to be better written so there's no mistake about what your character is going to say, but just because it didn't work out perfectly the first time around doesn't mean you need to scrap it and come up with something else.

Any solution they want to implement will need to deal with all of the different languages the game supports.  I'm just guessing, but I would expect they typically maintain the subtitles in a separate file that can simply be replaced for different language installations.  Changing the text on the dialogue wheels could be much more problematic (or labor intensive), but those little icons speak a universal language.

[TheMakoMaster]

one of many problems resulting from too little time. i thought the situational writing was fine, but hated the whole "relic" thing. Rather than flush out her character fully, it seemed like a cheap cop out that the writers used to explain meredith's end game actions.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Any solution they want to implement will need to deal with all of the different languages the game supports.  I'm just guessing, but I would expect they typically maintain the subtitles in a separate file that can simply be replaced for different language installations.  Changing the text on the dialogue wheels could be much more problematic (or labor intensive), but those little icons speak a universal language.

Really, why have dialogue wheel + icons, anyway? It's an artificial restriction, IMO. It simplifies the ways you can use dialogue to interact with the world.

Compare this



with this



just sayin'.

[Darth Death]

The biggest problem I had with DA2 in regards of the story was the lack of progression & choice. Everybody & everything remained the same throughout, there was never any epic moments presented, it seemed whatever choices the player made didn't effect the overall plot, sidequest felt utterly pointless... I don't know. The game had some serious potential but failed to deliver in almost every aspect. I really hope for DA3 BioWare goes back to what worked (DA:O).

[alex90c]

I didn't really like how the emoticons kind of railroaded you down those three paths. The dialogue wheel should be there to give us responses X, Y and Z to a situation rather than simply giving us three ways of giving response X in either a nice way, sarcastic dick, or dick.

For example, in the Flemeth encounter in the prologue you could have had wow thanks for saving us/stand back/I don't trust you as your three options rather than oh thank you for saving us we would have been dead without you/hurdurhur you roasted darkspawn/gtfo b*tch.

Basically, while I dislike the dialogue wheel, it's more the way it's set up rather than simply the wheel itself, and being railroaded in to diplomatic/sarcastic/angry sucks.

Modifié par alex90c, 04 juillet 2011 - 06:05 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

I completely disagree. The medium in which the writing was presented - the cinematic style and the dialogue wheel - is something the writing wasn't able to overcome, but I can't blame the writing for that.

I like the writing in DA2. I dislike how that writing was presented.

[MorrigansLove]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I completely disagree. The medium in which the writing was presented - the cinematic style and the dialogue wheel - is something the writing wasn't able to overcome, but I can't blame the writing for that.

I like the writing in DA2. I dislike how that writing was presented.

This

/endthread

[Pasquale1234]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Any solution they want to implement will need to deal with all of the different languages the game supports.  I'm just guessing, but I would expect they typically maintain the subtitles in a separate file that can simply be replaced for different language installations.  Changing the text on the dialogue wheels could be much more problematic (or labor intensive), but those little icons speak a universal language.

Really, why have dialogue wheel + icons, anyway? It's an artificial restriction, IMO. It simplifies the ways you can use dialogue to interact with the world.

I agree - and I personally prefer non-voiced protagonist.

There are a number of players who prefer the voiced protagonist, however, and the comments we have seen from the BioWare team seem to indicate that it is here to stay.

[Melca36]

erynnar wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

I wouldn't say it's all the fault of the writers, as I enjoyed the story of Origins and Awakening.
And David Gaider wrote two great books.
They're capable of writing wonderful stories and characters. But...I guess they didn't have enough time to deliver something better. The writing in DA2 was really, really poor, and the plot suffered because of that. But...if there are some who like it, who am I to say they're wrong?
It's just my opinion.

This^ And I think it was due to being rushed. It's really hard to be creative and produce quality when you're rushed.

Game developers need to stop assuming gamers will not notice when something is rushed.  We are alot more saavy than they give us credit for.

[nuclearpengu1nn]

The gameplay features where good
but the way the story was written was for me the whole reason why some people b*tches about DA2
so yes i agree

[KnightofPhoenix]

I don't think it was a question of time only, at least that's not my impression. The lack of time most likely ruined Act 3, but I still feel that the mage / Templar conflict was not as built up as it should / could have been, primarily because Act 2 does not deal with the conflict directly, only marginally so (dealing with the mage resistance directly and more substantially would have given a stronger overall plot imo. The Qunari as it stands did not imo).

Another point, but this is purely subjective. It's the entire writing philosophy that Bioware has used throughout all their games I've played, that I am getting tired of. It's getting less and less interesting for me.

[Lord_Valandil]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I don't think it was a question of time only, at least that's not my impression. The lack of time most likely ruined Act 3, but I still feel that the mage / Templar conflict was not as built up as it should / could have been, primarily because Act 2 does not deal with the conflict directly, only marginally so (dealing with the mage resistance directly and more substantially would have given a stronger overall plot imo. The Qunari as it stands did not imo).

Another point, but this is purely subjective. It's the entire writing philosophy that Bioware has used throughout all their games I've played, that I am getting tired of. It's getting less and less interesting for me.

The Qunari, in my opinion, should have acted as the main conflict.
In the end, all of it it's a bit anti-climatic. And feels like a filler. I mean...seriously, they spend like three years or so, sitting there, doing nothing. And then, when they felt the need to stretch their legs, there's finally some movement.

[erynnar]

Melca36 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

I wouldn't say it's all the fault of the writers, as I enjoyed the story of Origins and Awakening.
And David Gaider wrote two great books.
They're capable of writing wonderful stories and characters. But...I guess they didn't have enough time to deliver something better. The writing in DA2 was really, really poor, and the plot suffered because of that. But...if there are some who like it, who am I to say they're wrong?
It's just my opinion.

This^ And I think it was due to being rushed. It's really hard to be creative and produce quality when you're rushed.

Game developers need to stop assuming gamers will not notice when something is rushed.  We are alot more saavy than they give us credit for.

This is true. I would say gamers in general are pretty savy and bright people. We are smart people who play games (all kinds of games).

[Zjarcal]

Melca36 wrote...

Game developers need to stop assuming gamers will not notice when something is rushed.  We are alot more saavy than they give us credit for.

I really doubt developers think people won't notice, they are aware of those things. Their main hope is that gamers won't mind too much because they enjoyed the other aspects of the game more, but I don't see Laidlaw and company saying "oh, no one will notice we recylced that dungeon dozens of times".

[Melca36]

Zjarcal wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Game developers need to stop assuming gamers will not notice when something is rushed.  We are alot more saavy than they give us credit for.

I really doubt developers think people won't notice, they are aware of those things. Their main hope is that gamers won't mind too much because they enjoyed the other aspects of the game more, but I don't see Laidlaw and company saying "oh, no one will notice we recylced that dungeon dozens of times".

When thinking about it again...it wasn't really the dungeons that irked me. And Yes while they were annoying to repeat; I think things like the those silent 2d Characters that were scattered about annoyed me more.

I do understand they were on a budget. I just wish it had been so glaringly noticable.

[TheAwesomologist]

Agree and Disagree. Writing was broken up so parts of it were fine. Most of the characters were well written (especially Varric, Isabella, Merrill, and Aveline) as well as a few of the quests. Act 3 still doesn't make any sense to me though.
The entire story of DA2 also has a flow or momentum problem. Act 1 being too long and grindy, then you get a time gap where your hero doesn't change his clothes for 3 years after changing it every hour, but thats okay because Act 2 is well written (overall). Then you get another time skip which makes the hero look ineffective leading to an ending that says only one thing: Hawke is not important. He/she is ineffective at seeing the problems at hand which puts them in the position of being a purely reactive grocery getter.
As a player I don't like feeling as though I didn't really matter to the story, no matter how hard the game tries to tell me that I was important. Now is that because of bad writing or bad design (or a combination of the two) only BioWare knows and no one there is going to write an apology letter or anything.

[Eternal Phoenix]

It was poor in some places. You can actually report Anders to Cullen but nothing happens.