466 réponses à ce sujet

[Pious_Augustus]

I feel a lot better taking a nice long break from these forums. I still feel the same way about the game nothing has changed. I haven’t bought any of the DLC at this point and I don’t plan too unless something signifcant changes. I found myself playing Dragon Age and then when I thought about going through Dragon Age II I just stopped playing completely and started to play other developers games.

If anything still bothers me it is when I come to these boards the same outrage still exists since launch and you still have staff members talking corperate mumbo jumpo some talking sanely and others like they are you’re boss and you’re going to listen.

I heard about the DLC and from all the information given I am afraid it’s all going to be a dungeon crawl with reused dungeon,… I won’t be finding out until plenty more people have played it. I don’t trust paid reviewers at this point…. I keep thinking back to their reviews on Dragon Age II which in almost all cases their review it sounds as when you read it they are trying to convince themselves it is a good game.

I feel like I have been burnt with this game series. I still haven’t given up hope for Bioware.

I still have faith in Mass Effect however I am still questioning whether or not to preorder and The Old Republic I am going to give it a chance. I think Dragon Age II left a sour taste in my mouth. The forum is a literal war zone that should be renamed Dragon Age: Complaints since that’s all there is and rightly so.

Modifié par Pious_Augustus, 03 juillet 2011 - 05:18 .

[Brahox]

I still feel the same kinda, I can't get over the recycle maps which for me kills any replay along with pretty much only having 2 different endings. Besides that the game fine imo.

[Redcoat]

A lot of people are saying that Dragon Age is "dead" to them, but that's not entirely true for me; it's only mostly dead. Provided the developers work their magic on the third game, they'll be able to bring it back to life. But I'm a bit worried about the direction the series has been taking after Origins. Awakening was mediocre, the DLC ranged from passable to bad, and DA2 did nothing to reverse the trend. I fear that the franchise may turn out like Highlander - a strong first effort which is never again repeated.

That said, I'm quite interested in the upcoming DA2 DLC. Since BioWare is by now fully aware of what people disliked about DA2 (having heard it over and over and over), any future DLC will undoubtedly take this criticism into account.

[Marbazoid]

I see DA2 as a fine game that stands on its own. Its only let down by being marketed as the sequel to origins, which it isn't. Basically, I see it as a spin off title, that ties into the same timeline, but it just isn't full blown sequel material.

I suspect EA demanding a sequel so soon to capitalize on the first ones success defined so much about what DA2 could and couldn't do. I still have high hopes for the future of the franchise.

[Lord_Valandil]

I feel the same. Well, perhaps I'm a bit less angry.
I really loved Origins, and also enjoyed Awakening, despite its flaws. I even bought all the DLC, though some of the content was truly awful (Golems, Witch Hunt...).
Witch Hunt started to make me angry...with all the marketing promising "All your questions will be answered, blahblah"...and then it turned out to be a buggy mess which answered nothing and instead delivered even more questions.

When DA2 was announced I was sad to know that the Warden's story wouldn't continue...
I didn't like the idea of a fixed human character, but I said "Hey, let's give it a shot, maybe it'll be something epic!", and then...it started to look more and more like Mass Effect, and it was pretty obvious that it would be a rushed job. Nevertheless, I remained optimistic with the idea that "Bioware cannot screw it up, they will deliver something wonderful".
Alas, they didn't.

DA2 felt like a spit on my face.
For me, it's a rushed, soulless exercise, without passion or real desire to be something more than just a hack-and-slash with a dialogue wheel and a false sense of interaction, because you cannot change anything...NOTHING changes. Recycled areas, generic waves of enemies...an unfocused and messy plot full of holes and bad choices, retcons, the art direction is a mixed bag, bugs, clipping...almost everything it's a recipe for disaster.
There are some good things...I like the music, despite being mostly uninspired and forgettable, and some characters, like Merrill or Varric. There are some good moments, like the Scarface parody, but they're just little moments of brilliance drowned in a sea of boredom.
I do know that Origins isn't perfect (I've never said that), and that Awakening isn't widely appreciated, but they're far better than DA2. And I truly, truly, truly wanted to love DA2, but now I just want to forget about it...

I don't want anyone to lose their job or anything like that, I don't want Bioware to come out and say "We made a crappy game, please forgive us", no, no. But I'd really appreciate them to stop saying "We made innovations and some people couldn't handle them" or "We are really proud of DA2", come on...You guys seriously cannot say that with a straight face. I know nobody would talk trash about their baby, but it's really annoying, just as it is annoying to read the 100000th thread of "DA2 SUCKS".

I know some people truly liked DA2, and I have no quarrel with them. They're free to enjoy whatever they like. What's truly sad is that Bioware divided their fanbase...and I doubt that anything they make from now on will satisfy both sides.

Sigh.

[Tirfan]

Have to go with Redcoat here, its not completely dead for me, I started to like Thedas too much after Origins.. but then again I KNOW that I will never again have a DA-game that I will think of as exceptionally good, or even good, the most I can hope is is even somewhat enjoyable, and that is kind of why I'm still on these forums, trying to do those posts that have actual criticism on them, and reasoning, and well, of course, I have had some nice dialogue here with some people that have gotten me to think about some things, in both games, thanks to you people.

[Gunderic]

I was never mad over it, though it still sucks.

And yes, my first guess when I saw the achievements for the DLC was 'dungeon crawler'.

[caradoc2000]

I enjoyed DA2, so there is nothing to "cool down" about.

[Chuvvy]

I still think it's an average title. The only thing that saves it for me is the characters, that's one thing bioware generally doesn't **** up.

[bEVEsthda]

Well I feel more detached, from Bioware, and even the entire DA franchise.
Bioware is not "my" developer anymore, like. The realization that it's not the same Bioware any longer has truly hit home. It's just a bunch of kids who loves games like Diablo, Bayonetta and Final Fantasy. ...And D. Gaider, who seem like he has a personal stake in something, or he too would have left? Maybe he has some kind of royalties, and have bought into M.Laidlaw's bull about a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, if they style the game for almost 14 and slightly retarded?

And I now feel more contemptous than angry. Still angry, I guess, but more "right, go to H* and please drag EA down the drain with you" than the old "Oh my G*! What have you done to DA? This is all so wrong, you must change back immediately".

The feel I get, from the forum feedback towards the game, and the little the developers speak on the subject, is that the changes to DA:next (or DA3 if u like) aren't going to adress the central problem of DA2. Which is the widespread changes to the DA universe, DA game-mode and DA art. Kiddie "kewl" has replaced atmosphere. Kiddie "fun"-conveniency has replaced depth.
I only have to tune in to TW2 to be struck with hundred tons of reeking, thick, mature atmosphere. There is nothing about TW2's gameplay that I like, except the subtle consequental depth. Yet it is still a great experience. One of the very best.

The changes DA3 is going to see will likely mostly be in gameplay. Everybody has complained so much about reused dungeons. But that, I feel, is mostly just an anchor point for critique. It's a very tangible and obvious flaw. I doubt it is what truly ruins DA2 though, despite claims to the matter. It's just an easy thing to point at.
If anything, I think M.L. may have made a correct decision to make the game longer, by reusing the dungeons for more quests. It's the first decision, to remake the entire DA universe, from classic fairy-tale atmosphere to kiddie-kewl-"fun", that wastes so much work, that he runs out of time to make a proper game.

So I'm very pessimistic about DA:next. It'll likely take a good deal of the "constructive" criticism to heart, and I doubt we'll ever see reused dungeons again. But there's a great risk it will stay a kiddie-kewl game, full of japanese contrieved melodrama, easy convenience, and "fun".
The people who created the BG & DA:O atmosphere and understood the DA universe have left Bioware. For that simple reason DA will never return. And for the same reason there isn't much point in being angry either. The people who will make DA3 will do their best. But it's not going to be the same thing. What exactly it will be and if it's relevant enough, remains to be seen.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 03 juillet 2011 - 09:31 .

[Uccio]

^ well said. Though I still have my hopes up for DA3 since I really enjoyed DAO.

[taine]

Oddly enough, I was just thinking exactly this as I opened up these forums -- for a while I was feeling a pretty large amount of antipathy towards DA2 and Bioware, but I've come to accept the reality that a confluence of circumstances led to Bioware making a pretty mediocre game. Considering their previous run of excellence I'm willing to give them another chance with DA3, I just probably won't be pre-ordering it or buying any DLC until after reviews are posted.

In other words, I'm not really upset about it anymore, but the DA games are no longer 'Must Buy' to me.

[Ronin2006]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Well I feel more detached, from Bioware, and even the entire DA franchise.
Bioware is not "my" developer anymore, like. The realization that it's not the same Bioware any longer has truly hit home. It's just a bunch of kids who loves games like Diablo, Bayonetta and Final Fantasy. ...And D. Gaider, who seem like he has a personal stake in something, or he too would have left? Maybe he has some kind of royalties, and have bought into M.Laidlaw's bull about a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, if they style the game for almost 14 and slightly retarded?

And I now feel more contemptous than angry. Still angry, I guess, but more "right, go to H* and please drag EA down the drain with you" than the old "Oh my G*! What have you done to DA? This is all so wrong, you must change back immediately".

The feel I get, from the forum feedback towards the game, and the little the developers speak on the subject, is that the changes to DA:next (or DA3 if u like) aren't going to adress the central problem of DA2. Which is the widespread changes to the DA universe, DA game-mode and DA art. Kiddie "kewl" has replaced atmosphere. Kiddie "fun"-conveniency has replaced depth.
I only have to tune in to TW2 to be struck with hundred tons of reeking, thick, mature atmosphere. There is nothing about TW2's gameplay that I like, except the subtle consequental depth. Yet it is still a great experience. One of the very best.

The changes DA3 is going to see will likely mostly be in gameplay. Everybody has complained so much about reused dungeons. But that, I feel, is mostly just an anchor point for critique. It's a very tangible and obvious flaw. I doubt it is what truly ruins DA2 though, despite claims to the matter. It's just an easy thing to point at.
If anything, I think M.L. may have made a correct decision to make the game longer, by reusing the dungeons for more quests. It's the first decision, to remake the entire DA universe, from classic fairy-tale atmosphere to kiddie-kewl-"fun", that wastes so much work, that he runs out of time to make a proper game.

So I'm very pessimistic about DA:next. It'll likely take a good deal of the "constructive" criticism to heart, and I doubt we'll ever see reused dungeons again. But there's a great risk it will stay a kiddie-kewl game, full of japanese contrieved melodrama, easy convenience, and "fun".
The people who created the BG & DA:O atmosphere and understood the DA universe have left Bioware. For that simple reason DA will never return. And for the same reason there isn't much point in being angry either. The people who will make DA3 will do their best. But it's not going to be the same thing. What exactly it will be and if it's relevant enough, remains to be seen.

I like what you said.

Just wondering, besides Brent Knowles, where have the people who created BG and DA:O gone to?

[blothulfur]

Fairly much the same as you op, the game is mediocre and not for me but I still like the mass effect shooters which do what they do well. I don't think there's much point bashing the game with vitriolic outbursts even though I detest a few elements of the game as i've put my views in the constructive criticism and numerous other threads and John Epler and others have said repeatedly that they are being read and acted upon so the proof of the pudding will be in the eating (though I have not and will not buy dlc for the game-especially the inconsequential ones that should be free).

It is quite funny when DA2 defenders become so morally outraged about people criticising their game though and make dire pronouncements that they've had enough and won't tolerate any more, it's worth hanging out just to read their admonishments and the inevitable personal insults they'll resort to when faced with differing opinions or when people have the temerity to bring up - dare I say it - the Witcher 2.

Sit back, crack a tinny open and laugh my arse off, i've almost spilt beer on my keyboard snorting with laughter numerous times though.

[Khayness]

Yeah, finally got enough RAM to mess around with the DA:O toolset, so I'm having a blast with that.

A proper DA2 replay (now that most of the bugs are gone) is at the very bottom on my to do list. Probably I'll fetch the ultimate edition and then experience with the various DA:O world imports.

[philippe willaume]

Hello
Yes the DAII is awesome/sucks are a bit tiresome.
it does not take a diploma in marketing to understand that that given the reception of DA:0 it was going to be a challenge to follow up, Changing the game mechanics, and having a much shorter development cycle for DAII, even taking in account re-use of some elements of former DA incarnation was may be a tad on the wildly optimistic side.

Any game system is always a compromise, so there always going to be flaws for some. There was some good concept in DAII. Again the net result is that the conception time was shortcut and that there was little consequence/impact analysis on the conceptual change.

It is like trying to make sense as to why in WWII the US liked the gyro gun-sight where as the German and the UK did not like or used it. Even though if the German developed and test a gyro gun-sight in 42 (the US gyro appeared in late 44) and it was virtually the same equipment as the US one.

The Gyro gun sight in WWII, basically the gun-sight predicts the lead you need to hit the target. However in WWII the range of the target had to me manually dialled (no radar or lazar range finder, though the German test concluded that used in conjunction with air born radar it would be quite effective against bomber)
Because of the way the guns where laid out. The bullet trajectory relative to the aiming line and dispersion, in US plane, it did not really matter if you get the distance right between 300 and 700 meters. But for the UK and German that was not the case.
The German did not really use it, until late 44 early 45, when the training level of young pilots was very poor and using a gyro gun sight was helpful to lead at close range even though the German weapons system was optimised to shoot under 500 meters.
The UK weapons system had the same philosophy as the German, and that was compounded with the weapon placement and often mixing weapon with a different ballistic trajectory.

P47
http://www.zenoswarb...P-47/47GECD.gif

fw190
http://img137.images...nbenannt2tz.jpg


I.e. Giro gun sight is a good concept but if we take in regard with each belligerent weapon system and philosophy, each decision make sense. But you need to study what is the impact of the different component of the weapons system.
It is the same with the new concept in DAII

That being said I will buy DAIII even pre-order it.

[whykikyouwhy]

Hmm. 4 months since launch. I've done 3 playthroughs and on my 4th (with the Diversified Follower Armor mod!). Sure, the environments are still recycled. I still can't really get out of Kirkwall. All bandits are ninjas. I suppose things are the same.

But...I'm still enjoying myself. And Hawke is looking to add another notch in her bedpost (or lipstick case), so how could I deny her that and not continue to play?

[frustratemyself]

I've been playing since release and I've gotten more joy than rage out of DA2 but I'm pretty much ready to move on. I've got Dungeon Siege 3 and Assassins Creed series to get through on the shiny new Xbox.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Okay, not great, fair and that hurts form EA and Bioware, but I have seen this before from the EA side, a base game is mediocore, at best, but the DLC (expansion/stuff packs) do improve it greatly. I'm hoping DA3 is an improvement or at least leaves more open for DLC to make it worth more play.

I am certainly not abandoning my appreciation of EA or Bioware over one game, or two, or a few problems I have had with the EA side. Loyal EA fan since the Sims 1, and it was in fact a long term problem with The Sims 3 that introduced me to Bioware and the DA saga. So for me I am more and EA fan, but, from what I see Bioware deserves the same loyalty and second or third chance I have given EA.

[Alex Kershaw]

My thoughts haven't changed since playing the game. It's a good game compared to the average 'Bugs Bunny and Taz' or 'American Idol - The Game' you see on the market, but compared to the actual AAA quality we expect from Bioware, it was insultingly bad.

Despite owning all ME1, ME2 and DAO DLC, I won't be buying any DA2 DLC (I didn't buy Sebastien).

I feel that they can bring it back round in DA3 though. Kirkwall was the biggest mistake; by having just one city, they had less room for side quests and so had to have every quest going in repeated dungeons, rather than having multiple large areas with side quests inside them as in Origins.

If they go back to a more 'travelling the nation' approach, bring back more detailed companion intefactions (not linking them to quests - go back to Origins style for this), make the game have an actual plot (was a bizarre decision in DA2 to be honest) and make combat either fully tactical (DAO) or fully action (ME2), it should be a massive improvement.

[Jamie_edmo]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Well I feel more detached, from Bioware, and even the entire DA franchise.
Bioware is not "my" developer anymore, like. The realization that it's not the same Bioware any longer has truly hit home. It's just a bunch of kids who loves games like Diablo, Bayonetta and Final Fantasy. ...And D. Gaider, who seem like he has a personal stake in something, or he too would have left? Maybe he has some kind of royalties, and have bought into M.Laidlaw's bull about a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, if they style the game for almost 14 and slightly retarded?

And I now feel more contemptous than angry. Still angry, I guess, but more "right, go to H* and please drag EA down the drain with you" than the old "Oh my G*! What have you done to DA? This is all so wrong, you must change back immediately".

The feel I get, from the forum feedback towards the game, and the little the developers speak on the subject, is that the changes to DA:next (or DA3 if u like) aren't going to adress the central problem of DA2. Which is the widespread changes to the DA universe, DA game-mode and DA art. Kiddie "kewl" has replaced atmosphere. Kiddie "fun"-conveniency has replaced depth.
I only have to tune in to TW2 to be struck with hundred tons of reeking, thick, mature atmosphere. There is nothing about TW2's gameplay that I like, except the subtle consequental depth. Yet it is still a great experience. One of the very best.

The changes DA3 is going to see will likely mostly be in gameplay. Everybody has complained so much about reused dungeons. But that, I feel, is mostly just an anchor point for critique. It's a very tangible and obvious flaw. I doubt it is what truly ruins DA2 though, despite claims to the matter. It's just an easy thing to point at.
If anything, I think M.L. may have made a correct decision to make the game longer, by reusing the dungeons for more quests. It's the first decision, to remake the entire DA universe, from classic fairy-tale atmosphere to kiddie-kewl-"fun", that wastes so much work, that he runs out of time to make a proper game.

So I'm very pessimistic about DA:next. It'll likely take a good deal of the "constructive" criticism to heart, and I doubt we'll ever see reused dungeons again. But there's a great risk it will stay a kiddie-kewl game, full of japanese contrieved melodrama, easy convenience, and "fun".
The people who created the BG & DA:O atmosphere and understood the DA universe have left Bioware. For that simple reason DA will never return. And for the same reason there isn't much point in being angry either. The people who will make DA3 will do their best. But it's not going to be the same thing. What exactly it will be and if it's relevant enough, remains to be seen.

Great post, I agree with you about reused areas being an anchor for critisism, the problem with DA:2, and the franchise at the moment is that they've changed the tone, from the "classic fairy-tale atmosphere" as bEVEsthda says, to this new fast-paced "super-sexy" silliness, that instead of giving Dragon Age an identity (which is what bioware said they were going for) it takes it away as it blends into almost JRPG/anime territory.

Personally the reason I first got into origins was because of the lotr vibe, ie fighting hordes monsters to protect the country, generic yes, but the lore and atmosphere was great, and it seems to have been lost with DA:2, and the whole mage vs templar vs chantry war doesnt grab me the same way the blight did, I do see where bioware came from when they said fighting a second blight again would be repetitive and unrealistic after fighting one in the previous game, but i didnt feel as the though this conflict has the same stakes as the blight, my opinion obviously others may prefer the mage war alot more.

Anyway have i "cooled down" yeah, I never HATED DA:2, its just a flawed game imo, and a shame that after a great game like origins bioware couldnt match it, I don't feel worried about DA:3 turning out to be rubbish, I just don't care about it right now, do i want DA:3 to be bad and the franchise to die? Of course not its a great franchise, one of my favourite fantasy ones anyway, but I'll just wait and see what its like before buying, which is totally the opposite after I finished origins.

Sorry for the wall of text 

Modifié par Jamie_edmo, 03 juillet 2011 - 03:10 .

[Roeding]

Not really, still can't bring myself to complete it. I dragged myself through the first 2 acts at least, so I tried. I think it's mostly because of the tedious and ridiculous combat paired with no sense of accomplishment and lack of exploration. Just about every other aspect of the game feels sloppy as well.

[Wolfborn Son]

I actually enjoyed DAII, far more than I did Origins, and was more disappointed with the first game. Baldur's Gate II, it was not, even if it tried really hard to be.