466 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

There is an affect one that people end up having to counter in order to RP the way they want which is what we both said. This has an affect on RPing. You do not imagine a female voice when you hear a male one unless you actually have a physical mental problem as you hear what you hear and your brain processes sound in the way that that sound was heard.

You might think of imagination as a mental illness, but I can promise you it is a real thing.  There is zero impact on a real PnP RPer hearing a voiced Hawke.  :lol:  You're seeing part and filling the rest in with pretend.  It's a lot of fun.  ;)

Sorry but I like longer games not shorter ones. Rent a movie it's like one long cutscene and seems to fill the description you desire in that comment. A game should have more hours playing less watching, difference between taking part and watching, games are for playing films are for watching. Cutscenes should only be used to bring closure to something or if needed build something up, for the most part by a long way a game should be played and not watched.

You're in the minority.  The games you like are being made less and less and the games I like are being made more and more.  Them's the facts.

:lol:

Be sure to tell Bethesda that when they release Skyrim.

I'm sure what will be by far the biggest selling RPG of the year will clearly suffer from being too long with upto 200 to 300+ hours long title. They will gladly take onboard your ideas in order to reduce sales by reducing content given money is such a bad thing for a developer.

Maybe they could streamline it for you where everything is removed except some old man sitting in chair reading a story to the player as a CGI, make it 2 Hours long perfect for your short attention span and remove all the non needed stuff like combat and playing leaving nothing but pure story.. You now.. Like a film.

Maybe even sell you an empty case where the entire game is left upto your imagination.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 juillet 2011 - 12:39 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Be sure to tell Bethesda that when they release Skyrim.

I'm sure what will be by far the biggest selling RPG of the year will clearly suffer from being too long with upto 200 to 300+ hours long title. They will gladly take onboard your ideas in order to reduce sales by reducing content given money such a bad thing for a developer.

It's not a good tactic to talk about oranges when you're points about apples are being refuted. 

Skyrim is a totally different kind of game, one that's designed to be relatively shallow in order to allow you a wide range of options.  Unlike BioWare's games, which are tighter on story and necessarily narrower on options.  DA2 is a refinement of DAO, a trend that isn't ending anytime soon. 

The OP asked if people are any happier with the game now that they've cooled down.  I guess the answer is no. 

B)B)

[Tirfan]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

So you are saying tha people can't be different? That some people may be thrown off character more easily, regardless of experience? That some poeple, yet again, regardless of experience, have different routines or no routines at all that they need to go trough to actually get INTO character? And that a VO can't have the effect that you are unable to go trough these routines?

Of course people are different.  You said you thought most PnP folks were anti-VO.  I don't think it's most.  I don't even think it's "some."  Old school PnPers are not likely to be bothered by VO.  We've been playing RPGs with voiced PCs and NPCs forever.  How could a voiced character possibly bother "most" of us?

Sure, I guess it will bother some people, but "Most?"  No, not most.

Well, okay, I'll admit defeat on the point of "most", the point  was, that it was my impression, for reasons I pointed out. I'll stand by my position of that VO in a CRPG restricts my RP, maybe its my quirk.

But please, don't refer to people who are bothered by VO as not real PnP-rp:rs, because I am both.

[Dragoonlordz]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

The OP asked if people are any happier with the game now that they've cooled down.  I guess the answer is no. 

B)B)

Pretty silly thing to say given the game hasn't changed why would my opinion of it change.

It's the same game it was when bought it only with some bug fixes and some really lame item packs.

Release a good game get good feedback from me, improve a game gets improved opinions. Same **** different day doesn't go from negative to positive just because time has passed given the item in question has not.

You seem to be under the misunderstanding that a story must be short in order to be good. A 40 or 60 hour great story is just as good as a 25 hour great story and the only difference is your attention span is lacking where others it may not regardless of if you read it or listened to it.

Some people prefer to read and apply their own inner voice other prefer to listen to someone else and pretend to be them. But either way a VO affects RPing which is what me and Tir have been saying beofre you overblown it rather than us using terms like 'ruin' and saying it's 'BS' or implying that lack imagination to make excuses for it's shortcommings.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 juillet 2011 - 12:53 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Tirfan wrote...

Well, okay, I'll admit defeat on the point of "most", the point  was, that it was my impression, for reasons I pointed out. I'll stand by my position of that VO in a CRPG restricts my RP, maybe its my quirk.

But please, don't refer to people who are bothered by VO as not real PnP-rp:rs, because I am both.

High five!  I don't think you're a bad gamer or anything (not that you should give a crap what  I think!  :D:D)  I'm just saying the anger about VO messing up RP is generally overblown.

[Morroian]

Drasanil wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Speak for yourself. IMO it offered more in the way of RP than DAO ever did.

In DAO you actually got to choose who your character was, had more freedom developping his/her abilities and you were able to make informed descisions as to what he/she would say before saying it.

In DA2 you have no real choice of character, the classes are totally cookie-cutter, and your dialogue can essentially be summed up as such: *KIsses*, *Lawl* and *Grrrr*.

Care to explain how you get more 'RP' out of it?

The paraphrase isn't the dialogue. Like Persephone I had no trouble role playing and my Hawke's are better characters than my warden's were.

In DAO you didn't choose who your character was you just had the choice of 6 origins, all of them exactly the same as Hawke. More choice certainly but all of them equally as pre-made as Hawke was.

And how are the classes cookie cutter?

[Dragoonlordz]

Morroian wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Speak for yourself. IMO it offered more in the way of RP than DAO ever did.

In DAO you actually got to choose who your character was, had more freedom developping his/her abilities and you were able to make informed descisions as to what he/she would say before saying it.

In DA2 you have no real choice of character, the classes are totally cookie-cutter, and your dialogue can essentially be summed up as such: *KIsses*, *Lawl* and *Grrrr*.

Care to explain how you get more 'RP' out of it?

The paraphrase isn't the dialogue. Like Persephone I had no trouble role playing and my Hawke's are better characters than my warden's were.

In DAO you didn't choose who your character was you just had the choice of 6 origins, all of them exactly the same as Hawke. More choice certainly but all of them equally as pre-made as Hawke was.

And how are the classes cookie cutter?

Hawke has more in common with the main characters from Dungeon Seige 3 than Origins.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 juillet 2011 - 01:08 .

[Morroian]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Hawke has more in common with the main characters from Dungeon Seige 3 than Origins.

Only not, but please continue to invent criticisms out of thin air.

[Dragoonlordz]

Morroian wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Hawke has more in common with the main characters from Dungeon Seige 3 than Origins.

Only not, but please continue to invent criticisms out of thin air.

Feel free to explain why you think they are out of thin air when both have same principle of set progaganists with very linear classes regarding mage, rogue or warrior with very speicifc skills and no cross over. Little to no backstory and history with a main character dropped out of nowhere along with his family who also have no back story as they start dying you have learned nothing more about them. Unlike the first part of Origins which is about where you come from family and location and why you became a grey warden.

If you fail to grasp why I see the similarities main characters and classes, between DS3 and DA2 and less like DAO thats not my problem.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 juillet 2011 - 01:45 .

[jennamarae]

Morroian wrote...

Crafting was tedious?? Then what was crafting in DAO? Tedious x infinity?

Yes?

Crafting in DA2 was bearable. Crafting in DAO wasn't until I realized that the Dalish would sell me as many elfroots as I wanted to buy. I've never cared for crafting in any game though, so that may have something to do with it..

[Drasanil]

Morroian wrote...
The paraphrase isn't the dialogue. Like Persephone I had no trouble role playing and my Hawke's are better characters than my warden's were.

Indeed the paraphrases aren't dialogue, hence the problem. I like being able to choose what my character says, not have a vague idea of what he/she might say before I make said choice. I view it as a loss control over my character which is a negative. DA2 reduced your choices to the previously mentioned 'Kisses' 'Lawl' and 'Grrrr' and then you got to 'find out' what choice you made after making it. 

In DAO you didn't choose who your character was you just had the choice of 6 origins, all of them exactly the same as Hawke. More choice certainly but all of them equally as pre-made as Hawke was.

Yes they were pre-made and in that sense still limited, however it was still a choice of who your character was. If you didn't like a certain origin/character you could play another, furthermore who your character 'was' was further expanded upon in the origins themselves allowing you the chance to make said pre-defined character's your own. Influence how you as a player saw the DAO world once the Origin/Ostagar portion was completed. It gave you a different sense of perspective.

And how are the classes cookie cutter?

By virtue of the fact they are so restricted in what they can use, that the game pretty much forces you to dump points in two class related attributes which further constrains how you can develop your character, and that their talents are basically all tailored for very narrow and specific roles. The only way the classes could be even more cookie cutter at this point would be for Bioware to just flat remove the four 'extra' attributes each class had, so only Str/Con for warriors, Dex/Cun for Rogues and Wil/Mag for Mages.

[Dragoonlordz]

@ Morroian

Crafting in DA2 was a cut down simplified variation much like planet scanning in ME2, removal or simplification of something some enjoyed and others did not and the ones who did not which shouted the loudest got what they wanted.

When the ones who was on the other side of the fence speak up they get shouted down by those who did want it and called negative or making things up like you just did, when in reailty if the shoe was on the other foot the same people who got what they wanted this time around moan when and complain when the other side get what they want..

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 juillet 2011 - 01:55 .

[Alexander1136]

No, I still think da2 was a crap game. they should've just made the hawke story a book imo. It might be a tie in as to what happens next but i dont understand why they couldn't have done that with the warden he's in a pretty insightful position regardless of what you did at the end of witch hunt.

whatever i'll just watch the series die.. slowly. a shame, i really thought when i first saw the Sacred Ashes trailer and played the game for the first time that this series was going to be a heavy hitter for years to come "theres no way they can screw this up" alas here we are with this thing called Dragon Age 2 a game about some d-bag named hawke who runs errands back and forth for 7 years.

[Wikal]

I'd be lying if I said wasn't still a little miffed about DA2. I recently just did a run through in DAO, and wow what a difference. I'm still finding new things- new conversation paths, more options, new codex. There's different ways to build characters, different ways to rp from origins, etc.

The thing is, it's really apparent that DA2 was a rush job. There's no getting around that, and it shows. The repetitive wave battles (i hate waves...so much), the reused areas, and most of all, the lack of content depth that DAO had. Then there's the style choices- exploding bodies (which thankfully they scaled down last patch, making my current playthrough a lot more pleasant) and the minimalistic, sci-fi, rectangular interface (which IMHO doesn't fit with the genre)

DA2, although for all it's faults, was a decent game. But it could have been better, given more time to think over the game and develop the content.

[Dragoonlordz]

Alexander1136 wrote...

No, I still think da2 was a crap game. they should've just made the hawke story a book imo. It might be a tie in as to what happens next but i dont understand why they couldn't have done that with the warden he's in a pretty insightful position regardless of what you did at the end of witch hunt.

whatever i'll just watch the series die.. slowly. a shame, i really thought when i first saw the Sacred Ashes trailer and played the game for the first time that this series was going to be a heavy hitter for years to come "theres no way they can screw this up" alas here we are with this thing called Dragon Age 2 a game about some d-bag named hawke who runs errands back and forth for 7 years.

Do what I am doing pinning my hopes on ME3 that they won't **** it up. In the meantime if your a PC user get some Witcher 2 on the go until Dues Ex HR or Skyrim or Diablo 3 comes out. Fingers crossed they learned from mistakes with DA2 for when they make DA3 but I wouldn't hold my breath.

From the Legacy video at least they are trying to remedy the tedious lame waves system reliance and bring back semi situational tactical combat though not getting my hopes too high that they have a good solution just yet. They added a new place outside Kirkwall finally so maybe they wont screw it up and go back to being trapped in a boring bland beyond belief city for DA3 with hardly any outside areas and vast amounts of repeating the same map to make up for lack of time invested in development.

But there is still so many things wrong with the game that nothing they do with DA2 DLC will make up for it all or even come close and all of it will cost you a lot extra to get anything they create to make up for it which will never succede given the game itself wont change.

Fingers crossed for ME3 all I can say.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 juillet 2011 - 02:32 .

[Morroian]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Feel free to explain why you think they are out of thin air when both have same principle of set progaganists

Feel free to explain how any of the 6 origins in DAO are any different then.

As for differences between DS3 and DA2:
DA2 - Hawke can be any of the 3 classes. DS3 - characters are entirely pre-made with set classes. 
DA2 - The character of Hawke is role played and shaped by dialogue choices, actions and the in game choices there are regarding characters etc. DS3 the character is not shaped at all, what dialogue choices there are are purely investigate options. The only control over the character is choice of abilities cause it is only a hack 'n slash. The characters are fixed even more than in The Witcher games.
DA2 there are opportunites for a variety of different builds. DS3 you'll end up with all the abilities the only choice is which ones to upgrade.

[Wusword77]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

@ Morroian

Crafting in DA2 was a cut down simplified variation much like planet scanning in ME2, removal or simplification of something some enjoyed and others did not and the ones who did not which shouted the loudest got what they wanted.

Comparing the 2 isn't even fair, as the planet scanning in ME2 took on a VASTLY different role from what it was in ME1 where as DA2's change to the crafting system took it out of PC hands (and their hotbars) and placed it in the hands of NPC's.

That being said there is an quick and easy answer to why crafting in DA2 was done through NPC's as opposed to PC's, none of the PC's had the experience/knowledge/skill as part of their background.  The cliche that mages should know how to make potions or rouges know how to make poisons is kind of lame.  You also have the location difference between the games, DA2 largely takes place within Kirkwall during mostly peaceful times (so you have ready access to a large amount of supplies) as opposed to DA:O where most of your time is spent in the feild.

[Morroian]

Drasanil wrote...

By virtue of the fact they are so restricted in what they can use, that the game pretty much forces you to dump points in two class related attributes which further constrains how you can develop your character, and that their talents are basically all tailored for very narrow and specific roles. 

Only if you want to min max. If you want to say build a spellsword like mage putting points into dex is doable.

[Morroian]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

@ Morroian

Crafting in DA2 was a cut down simplified variation much like planet scanning in ME2, removal or simplification of something some enjoyed and others did not and the ones who did not which shouted the loudest got what they wanted.

Its nothing like planet scanning. Planet scanning was a tedious activity that took up a lot of time and wasn't even done like a mini game like it should have been. Crafting in DA2 takes no time at all and thus cannot be tedious.  

[Drasanil]

Morroian wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

By virtue of the fact they are so restricted in what they can use, that the game pretty much forces you to dump points in two class related attributes which further constrains how you can develop your character, and that their talents are basically all tailored for very narrow and specific roles. 

Only if you want to min max. If you want to say build a spellsword like mage putting points into dex is doable.

...and if you want your 'spellsword' to use say... I don't know... a sword? Or, lets say since you can argue mages can still make melee attacks with their staves... How about have your warrior(s) not be totally useless against say the high dragon when it jumps onto it's perch and can only be attacked with ranged attacks?

Any ways, when I was saying stat dumping I did not mean full out min-maxing. But rather the fact that all armours have dual stat requirements and that by consequence not only would you be forced to boost the 2nd stat requirement just to meet the basic miminums for higher level armour, but that if you wanted to use a (in practice) non-class armour you would be forced to pretty much neglect your bread and butter stat.

Not to mention the fact that anyone needs sufficient mental fortitude to wear some clothes or exceptional dexterirty to wear a few additional pieces of leather is absurd.

[ecbricco]

eh i never really hated it just felt like more of a great game instead of a game universe that origins felt like for me, that being said i have started da2 again and it is fun either way for me

[Corto81]

Morroian wrote...

Feel free to explain how any of the 6 origins in DAO are any different then.

Every one of the 6 origins lets you interact with your characters family/friends/surroundings, get to know them, care about them, learn about the history and certain social aspects, etc.

Then there's the characters progress... Where you could opt for STR/DEX rogue (for example) and next time DEX/CUN rogue... And still be effective.
Combined with persuasion/etc. it just gave so much more than the simplified version in DA2.

In the end, every one of the 6 Origins was your own toon, it was never shoved down your throat you're "Hawke", you were called Warden because that was your position.
The game itself was deep enough and rich enough and gave enough options to interact with the world and change it - be it real or cosmetic.

Combined with the bland envirnonment, a "fake" world, re-used maps, lazy combat design and the dreaded waves, MMO-style completely dumbed-down quests, Hawke was just an utter failure as a character.

I can't really be arsed to pull parallels between Origins and DA2.
One was awesome and the other one was rubbish.

And the sales show it.

Modifié par Corto81, 14 juillet 2011 - 12:14 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
Fingers crossed for ME3 all I can say.

You bet...

[Haexpane]

Quick Summary about "how I feel" re DA2

I'm near the end of Act 3 and I constantly felt like I was missing something in this game, like I kept going to the "wrong" area because I thought I was taking wrong turns and back tracking. Whenever I went out looking for things to fight or trying to find "unmarked quests" i never found anything.

I have vague memories of fighting a dragon or 2, but I feel like 90% of the time I am running around small empty zones and it creates the feeling of being "lost" because I keep trying to move to where the "action is" and I can't find any.

I either go directly to the quest marker (what few of them there are) or it's empty space and lots of walking around.

On a side note, the sound effects are excellent on my 5.1 DD headphones...

[CitizenSnips]

I played it quite a bit when it was released. I made it through the game once and tried to push through another run but I just couldn't bring myself to keep playing it. Between recycled dungeons, universally bland locations, mediocre story (aside from the Arishok arc), mediocre characters, and a tedious loot system, the game just isn't anything special. Looking back I still feel a bit disappointed. The majority of my small collection of games were developed by Bioware and I was hoping to add another game to my small stack of replayables.