466 réponses à ce sujet

[ScotGaymer]

Alexander1136 wrote...

they should've just made the hawke story a book imo. It might be a tie in as to what happens next

This right here.

The story of DA2 as it stands would make a fantastic novel; as a game it is fairly lacklustre. It doesnt really fit the interactivity of the medium.

But like most of the problems with this game the short development cycle is ENTIRELY to blame.

[LPPrince]

Now that I think about it, YEAH.

That's a good point. DA2 would've been better as a novel then as a game.

[Feraele]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

Feraele wrote...


It doesn't need to be as a Warden either...but I would like the choice, as in DA:O to be able to choose, create my own characters again, instead of a premade Bioware character, that doesn't belong at all to me and is foreign to how I would have created the character...completely.      I want to be able to connect with my characters, as I did in DA:O ....that is part of my roleplay.     I don't want a character that resembles Shepard in Mass Effect.      Keep that for the Mass Effect fans,  I am not one of them.      I am not the only person on this forum or out in the world who thinks like that for rpg.... 

Well, you are not the only one, I'm so old-school I think this is pretty much the only way to actually RP. Creating a character from scratch with the certain restrictions and limitations the genre has, but no other limitations, this includes voice - which I see just as an unnecessary barrier placed between me as the player and my character, there just is no way to get into character for me if the character is voiced. Part of the RPG experience is this, and shaping the character even after the game has started, even if this shaping happens mostly in my head, and cannot actually express it - though, DA:O did fairly well in this aspect - there was enough opportunities to express things that it allowed me to portray the development of the character, even if the world and companions didn't react to it very well.. And on intellectual level I might call bullsh*t on this being actual character development.. but when I get into character, I noticed, I don't actually care.

But then, there are other ways too and I can acknowldge them, The Witcher 2 being a good example - Geralt is very set-in-stone voiced character, and while he wasn't my character - I could really connect to him, I'm not playing him in the first person, but rather in the third, but, well, Geralt is when all is said and done, rather good and well written character. While The Witcher 2 didn't give as great RP experience as I had hoped, it was miles better than what DA2 gave, Geralt had his motivations that weren't mine to come up with being a good example, I can't do that if I'm not in character - I might try to rationalize them on some level, but at the end of the day - I couldn't care less, "This hawke wants to save Kirkwall because he lives there".. vs. "I (as the character) want to save Kirkwall because I live here" is very different for me at least.

When all is said however.. I might be too old-school. But that I think comes with being a PnP-gamer first and foremost.

I'm just like you a first persona role player as preference opposed to third persona (fixed protaganist with limited scope of applying RP) regarding increasing enjoyment of the RP element. However where Geralt was a fixed protaganist aka established he actually had vast amounts of history from both books and previous game so it felt right and was not emersion breaking as someone who knew his backstory from other media and had both met and had many interactions with a great deal of the reappearing characters in TW2 from TW1 as example such like Seigfried, Triss, Dandilion and many more.

Where Hawke was nothing more than a 'drag and drop hero' even his family was nothing more than something you step in and drag along through the game since no backstory was given prior to meeting them and even after hardly any interactoins delved into the family aspect from childhood to getting to know them as a family they were just NPCs that sulked and moaned a lot and would gladly have fed all of them to the ogre at the start.

Re: your description of Hawke et al....that's more than likely why (currently trying to get thru first run of DA:2)  I am not connecting with anything that is going on in DA:2.        Played for 6 hours last night, came away with the feeling that...yeah ok got some quests done,  still not at the Deeproads quest though ..am short of cash.      But the whole thing did not involve me..did not pull me in...didn't care.      

I don't know if they..meaning Bioware will EVER be able to reproduce something like DA:Origins again,  first they have to want to...and I highly doubt they will,   they are focussed on the more anime esk game,  with shallow game play,  simple reuseable maps..etc.      I think they have no budget to produce something like Origins again,  and so those of us who were fans of  Origins probably won't like whats happening next on their agenda.     I'll hang around to see what happens, but I have my doubts.      

This is so disappointing. 

[Feraele]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Be sure to tell Bethesda that when they release Skyrim.

I'm sure what will be by far the biggest selling RPG of the year will clearly suffer from being too long with upto 200 to 300+ hours long title. They will gladly take onboard your ideas in order to reduce sales by reducing content given money such a bad thing for a developer.

It's not a good tactic to talk about oranges when you're points about apples are being refuted. 

Skyrim is a totally different kind of game, one that's designed to be relatively shallow in order to allow you a wide range of options.  Unlike BioWare's games, which are tighter on story and necessarily narrower on options.  DA2 is a refinement of DAO, a trend that isn't ending anytime soon. 

The OP asked if people are any happier with the game now that they've cooled down.  I guess the answer is no. 

B)B)

Good grief.   Da 2 is nowhere near a refinement of of DA:O ..far from it.    Da:2 barely resembles if at all...DA:Origins.  It is an improvement for those that play hack n slash games, it is NOT an improvement for the rper,  AT all.     Shallow story, shallow game play,  uninteresting characters.       No comparison whatsoever.

Shortcuts taken ..because as Mr Silverman stated..why have all that detail distracting you (oh my gosh)   Why have different coloured scenery depending if you are in a forest or the Deep Roads ...(lets make everything brown)  ....again good grief. 

I am currently playing thru it, but with a decided...disinterested attitude.  Not because that's the way I went in..because thats how it affects me.    I can't relate to it.    

I was all excited about this sequel, didn't like some of the announced changes back when they were first telling us about them, but I figured..oh well..probably get used to it after I play it a bit.      

No dialogue wheel, no voiced protagonist.    Don't want some........thanks.    This is a poor, pale shadow of DA:Origins  period.      I look at it like some of those dlcs they put out...it has no connection, no depth,  no hook. 

Remember...I am expressing my PERSONAL opinion on this.    

[Sabariel]

I actually like DA2 less than I used to. The entirety of Act I feels like the Fade in DAO did: tedious. I've only played through DA2 three times (though I didn't finish the third playthrough. I got halfway through Act II then deleted it) and I'm working on a fourth playthrough, but... I don't think I'm going to be able to finish my slog through Act I. The ability delay bug(?) is not helping matters either...

Modifié par Sabariel, 15 juillet 2011 - 01:33 .

[Morroian]

Feraele wrote...

Shortcuts taken ..because as Mr Silverman stated..why have all that detail distracting you (oh my gosh)   Why have different coloured scenery depending if you are in a forest or the Deep Roads ...(lets make everything brown)  ....again good grief. 

Remember...I am expressing my PERSONAL opinion on this.    

OK factually speaking David Silverman is the head of marketing and not a dev so what he says about the game is irrelevant.

The rest I disagree with, it isn't shallow at all and the role playing is good but thats just personal opinion.

[Frybread76]

How do I feel now? I think I like DA2 less than I did that first few weeks. It just isn't a fun game or a good action RPG. I don't think it's horrible, but it's definitly a 2 of 5 or a 4 of 10 (well below average).

[PrinceLionheart]

Just finished my first play-through yesterday. There were some areas of the game that I really loved, but others, I could understand where the backlash was coming from. Admittedly, I think the total $!&^storm people threw over it was overexaggerated. Yes, it wasn't as good as the first game, but at the same time it wasn't this unplayable abomination that will forever tarnish Bioware's reputation.

Honestly, it didn't bug me over not being able to travel all over the country/world like in the first game. That said, the cut-and-paste level design was just plain lazy.

Story-wise it was hit or miss for me. Like @Sabriel said, the first act was plain tedious, having to do an endless amount of side missions just to advance the plot. Act 2 was actually the height of the game for me. I'm far more interested Qunari storyline instead of the Templar/Mage conflict because it built on Sten's omen to the Warden near the end of the first game. Third act was okay. I thought the ending was heavy handed, forcing you to pick a side but not giving you enough time to form an emotionally attachment with either the Templars or Mages.

One thing I really loved though, and this is something I feel DA2 trumps most other Bioware games in, is the bond between Squadmates. In most of Bioware's games, the squadmates rarely have actual relationships with one another, and their status as group solely revolves around the PC being their to lead them. In DA2, there's antagonism, friendships, and in one case an actual relationship. It made the DA2 cast feel more human if that makes sense.

[VanDraegon]

My opinion hasnt changed. The game had a great story line and looked good. I enjoyed almost all of the characters. However, i agree with all the other who disliked the free fall in support enemies and tired, endlessly reused maps. Combat was just a tad too fast , imo.

Over all the game was fun for a play through. I couldnt make myself play more than that one time. Which was a huge disappointment for me considering how many times i have played and replayed and replayed Origins. I will replayed Origins a few more times before i go back to DA2. It really bums me out too, i was super stoked for the game and have really grown to like the setting, lore, histories and stories so far.

[Corto81]

Morroian wrote...


OK factually speaking David Silverman is the head of marketing and not a dev so what he says about the game is irrelevant.

Seriously?

It doesn't matter what THE HEAD OF MARKETING says about the game he's in charge of MARKETING for???

[Persephone]

Corto81 wrote...

Morroian wrote...


OK factually speaking David Silverman is the head of marketing and not a dev so what he says about the game is irrelevant.

Seriously?

It doesn't matter what THE HEAD OF MARKETING says about the game he's in charge of MARKETING for???

Not to me, no.

Had I relied on marketing, I'd never have bought DAO after seeing its dreadful trailers. "This is the new sh't!" indeed. Meh.

So thank God I do not trust marketing at all.

[Persephone]

Corto81 wrote...

I can't really be arsed to pull parallels between Origins and DA2.
One was awesome and the other one was rubbish.

And the sales show it.

Cute. The Sales argument.

This means Lady Gaga is a better singer than Renee Fleming (Who? You say? Oh dear....) because she outsells her and pretty much every female singer out there atm?

Yeah, the Sales argument doesn't prove a thing. Not to me anyway. Got anything else?

[Persephone]

Feraele wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Be sure to tell Bethesda that when they release Skyrim.

I'm sure what will be by far the biggest selling RPG of the year will clearly suffer from being too long with upto 200 to 300+ hours long title. They will gladly take onboard your ideas in order to reduce sales by reducing content given money such a bad thing for a developer.

It's not a good tactic to talk about oranges when you're points about apples are being refuted. 

Skyrim is a totally different kind of game, one that's designed to be relatively shallow in order to allow you a wide range of options.  Unlike BioWare's games, which are tighter on story and necessarily narrower on options.  DA2 is a refinement of DAO, a trend that isn't ending anytime soon. 

The OP asked if people are any happier with the game now that they've cooled down.  I guess the answer is no. 

B)B)

Good grief.   Da 2 is nowhere near a refinement of of DA:O ..far from it.    Da:2 barely resembles if at all...DA:Origins.  It is an improvement for those that play hack n slash games, it is NOT an improvement for the rper,  AT all.     Shallow story, shallow game play,  uninteresting characters.       No comparison whatsoever.

I do not play H&S games and it IS an improvement to me (On many levels). So....what? The story had more depth IMO, I preferred pretty much all of the companions over the DAO cast, I loved the game play in general...... 

[Chromie]

Persephone wrote...

I do not play H&S games and it IS an improvement to me (On many levels). So....what? The story had more depth IMO, I preferred pretty much all of the companions over the DAO cast, I loved the game play in general...... 

And I didn't  

So what does that tell you? Only thing I felt was better was the combat. But the wave of enemies ruined the flow of combat yes we get some crazy animations and classes played better but so what 3 playthroughs, one for each class, and I can't stomach it. I can get behind the animations what I can understand are the wave of enemies. How is it 30 bandits plan to rob 2 soveriegns?

As for companions I like Merril, Varric and Aveline. Though Merril feels more like fan service same with Fenris and Isabella. Varric and Aveline are better because they don't act either daft, broody or whorish. Seriously Isabella is Zevran with out the interesting back story and there is a time to act serious and joke. "I like big boats I cannot lie"? after betraying someone who helped you out even if it was only in the fade.

As for the story having more depth well...Act 1 make money Act 2 I did like but in the end it didn't affect what goes on in Act 3. I also never cared for Origins story it's bland and all about saving the world which is what Bioware can only do. They tried something different in DA2 and it was badly executed. 

Modifié par Ringo12, 15 juillet 2011 - 12:52 .

[Siven80]

After going back to play origins for a couple of new saves to import...

I like pretty much all of the gameplay improvements over DAO (except the waves....eeurgh). But still prefer the story style, enviroments and art style of Origins.

What can i say, making things slow and complex just for the sake of it doesnt sit well with me, and doesnt make it tactical. The players decision make it tactical.

DA2 certainly isnt perfect, but it aint as bad as many make it out to be.

[Tirfan]

^ The big problem in combat in DA2 is that it suffers from the exact same problems that DA:O combat, the package just makes it even easier for me to see the problems.

While the classes are more balanced, there is absolutely no balance inside the classes. Nothing changed. The encounter design in DA2 is even worse. Which were the main problems of DA:O combat for me.

At least in DA:O the encounters had the decency to be over quickly, no such thing in DA2, there is always the next wave coming.

[alex90c]

Plus practically all of the DA:O encounters had some kind of logic behind them. DA2s is just "alright let's do this menial quest, but to complete it I have to get from one side of Lowtown to the other" and then the player being disrupted by getting jumped by waves of parachuting, faceless bandits/raiders/skeleton archers which to be honest just annoyed the hell out of me.

On the other hand, you get Denerim where (provided you check the Chanter's Board) there are bandits that can be cleared out (and this is all entirely optional too) and it's made clear that it's because they've been causing trouble and making life hell for people walking in the alleys of Denerim. Reach back alley #1 and they've prepared an ambush. Back alleys #2 and #3, it turns out the other thugs have found out about you completely wasting the other group and are now out for your blood. What's great as well is that everything is pre-placed rather than waves of thugs, and especially on my first time round with the game those were some seriously challenging encounters (even the one with Kylon's guards helping you, and to think the numbers there were pretty even).

Modifié par alex90c, 15 juillet 2011 - 01:16 .

[Corto81]

Persephone wrote...

Corto81 wrote...

Morroian wrote...


OK factually speaking David Silverman is the head of marketing and not a dev so what he says about the game is irrelevant.

Seriously?

It doesn't matter what THE HEAD OF MARKETING says about the game he's in charge of MARKETING for???

Not to me, no.

Had I relied on marketing, I'd never have bought DAO after seeing its dreadful trailers. "This is the new sh't!" indeed. Meh.

So thank God I do not trust marketing at all.

I wasn't talking about how marketing effects you or any other person, but how BW perceive the game and their audience.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Feraele wrote...

No dialogue wheel, no voiced protagonist.    Don't want some........thanks.    This is a poor, pale shadow of DA:Origins  period.      I look at it like some of those dlcs they put out...it has no connection, no depth,  no hook. 

Too bad.  Dialogue wheel and voice protagonist are here to stay.  :)

Look at all the other games being made that fit your criteria.  There aren't any.  If DA2 made you angry, prepare for ---

ETERNAL NERD RAGE!!!!!  

[Morroian]

Corto81 wrote...

Morroian wrote...


OK factually speaking David Silverman is the head of marketing and not a dev so what he says about the game is irrelevant.

Seriously?

It doesn't matter what THE HEAD OF MARKETING says about the game he's in charge of MARKETING for???

Unless you're going to say he had a hand in making the game its irrelevant to whats in the game.

[Addai]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Feraele wrote...

No dialogue wheel, no voiced protagonist.    Don't want some........thanks.    This is a poor, pale shadow of DA:Origins  period.      I look at it like some of those dlcs they put out...it has no connection, no depth,  no hook. 

Too bad.  Dialogue wheel and voice protagonist are here to stay.  :)

Look at all the other games being made that fit your criteria.  There aren't any.  If DA2 made you angry, prepare for ---

ETERNAL NERD RAGE!!!!!  

Oh rly?

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Addai67 wrote...

Oh rly?

Rly.  Skyrim = apple.  DA = orange.  :P:P

[Kekkis]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Oh rly?

Rly.  Skyrim = apple.  DA = orange.  :P:P

If someone could tell me what this oranges and apples stuff is. I can eat both and I can say, that I like this more than that.

[John Epler]

Allow me to remind everyone that other people are entitled to their own opinion, and even if you don't agree, you need to at least respect that opinion and refrain from posting in a hostile and confrontational manner.

[ScotGaymer]

Yeh I agree with the comparisons with Skyrim being irrelevant.

They are TOTALLY different styles of games and you really can not compare them.

Bethesda as a company do not support their community as well as Bioware historically does (though in recent years the disparity between the two has gotten smaller); and they are apparently incapable of writing a good storyline both MQs for Oblivion and Fallout 3 SUCKED (New Vegas is the game Fallout 3 should have been).

Up until DA2 and the whole furour surrounding it Bioware games were ALWAYS a preorder/insta buy on release for me. And with Bethesda, I refuse point blank to buy any of their games on release ever again. Ill wait for the GOTY. Sick of being an unpaid beta tester for games they never fix and leave for Unofficial Patches to sort out.

At least Dragon Age isnt THAT bad.

@Persephone.
I agree that the differences between DAO and DA2 are not as huge or bad as most people make out. Frankly most of the games problems can be traced to a short dev cycle and a lack of proper QA.
But I disagree that the sales arguement doesnt count. It does. It doesnt definitively mean that DAO is a "better" game than DA2 - but it IS a good barometer to judge which game people prefer by and large. And considering DAO is Bioware's best selling ever and Dragon Age 2 crashed out of the charts within weeks and Fable 3 (a MUCH WORSE game than DA2) STILL remains in the charts; it has to at least tell you that on the face of things Bioware's endeavour to attract "new fans" from the FPS crowd failed and DA2 only alienated a large part of Dragon Age's existing fan base.