466 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

MarauderESP wrote...

i feel the same way, cant bring myself to give it another try....., just thinking on bugs, reused maps, and enemies coming from no where, the story lack of interest for me....and cmon in 10 years a city that never changes in any way.... sorry but i would say i feel the same way i did when i finish it....
sorry if there is any mistake, i usually dont speak on english

You're doing fine, everyone will be able to understand you. Keep it up.

[rpgfan321]

 After three playthroughs - for mage, rogue, and warrior in respective order - I was really done with the game. I did cool down. And in hindsight, it was a game. To me, it didn't feel like Dragon Age. More like Mass Effect. 
... Maybe that was harsh. *deep breath* 
I have to say I liked the first and especially the second act. The idea/theme behind what was driving each act was special for me. Fighting for survival not only for yourself, but your family. Trying to find a footing in the normal life of Kirkwall and by chance ended up being Champion of Kirkwall. 

Just  the third act.... That really put me off. Each act was different because  they were set in different time settings.It felt different. It should have been different. Just... If I had an analogy for DA2 I would compare it to a sandwich. A really expensive sandwich. (For me $60 for one product  is a lot). DA2 was composed of one really expensive bread, fresh, leafy, green lettuce, juicy ham, but unfortuately the chef was blind and finished it with a moldy, albeit expensive, bread. Moldy I tell you. 

Sure the repetitive gameplay was tiring, but for the story I could handle it. The Arishok was worth my real time. Hawke's family  was worth it if not more. 

The 'epic' ending did not have that 'epic' all-time conclusion to the game. I thought, unlike Mass Effect or any other games I have played involved in fantasy genre, Dragon Age would be like a history lesson. Or so I heard in one of the many viral interviews. Sure the players are the center of attention, but they are making history in the allotted timeline, and write that piece of history part of Thedas. A stand-alone adventure that only involved that game. To hear a foreshadowing event without acknowledging what happened in previous chapters of DA2 just led me to say 'That's it?' during the credits. 
I still remember what i said to myself during Origins' credits, and that was 'Wow!' To make such comparison, ... there really is no word to describe my disappointment. 

Also Hawke did not need or have the right to make a speech to his/her companions at the end. S/he is no general or commander of an army,  but just a leady of a motley crew. I would have been fine with more banter with my companions. Meredith and Orsino have more right than Hawke! And they do it plenty of justice. What Hawke does just ruins the moment. Oh and Orsino's sudden turn of sanity doesn't help, but only to become a fodder for Hawke and loot sparkles. Meredith's boss fight was uninspired the way how waves of statues come alive for too long. I feel that way because still to this day I don't get how such a tiny idol became such a big 2-handed sword. And I disregard the cool factor theory. She doesn't look cool, Meredith looks ridiculous.
The third act could have been a lot longer to build more tension because during Act 2 I was solely focused on the Qunari threat rather than templar vs. mages in side quests. 

I was okay for the first act. It reminded me of BG2. Was all for it for the second act, getting to know the Qunari and especially the Arishok. I wanted to know about Meredith and Orsino despite choose a side locked access to those characters. Much as I hated Meredith, I wanted to know her side of the story even though I sided with Orsino or choose not to pick sides. I wanted to know more about Orsino instead of being ordered around. I wanted to feel what Champion of Kirkwall meant! Instead all I got from it was some empty title. I like my  Hawkes, but I wanted more feedback from the game. Instead all I got from it was endless, funless combat simulator with mage spells. *a weak* yay. 

Long and more long, the 3rd act sucked balls. Tried going back to Origins, but then I am reminded of DA2, and stopped played Dragon Age all together. Will I play Dragon Age 3? Perhaps. Pre-Order it? Certainly not. 
The new DLC? Hell no. I think I'm going to pick the series up again after like what 5 years? (no joke). I like to play in succession especially since save import seems to the thing in Bioware games now. DA2 is a trudge to get through. 

But I'll still pre-order ME3 and play that on launch though...

Peace and sorry it my final rant was too long. Just needed to get that out. 

[Feraele]

Haexpane wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Shortcuts taken ..because as Mr Silverman stated..why have all that detail distracting you (oh my gosh)   Why have different coloured scenery depending if you are in a forest or the Deep Roads ...(lets make everything brown)  ....again good grief. 

Remember...I am expressing my PERSONAL opinion on this.    

OK factually speaking David Silverman is the head of marketing and not a dev so what he says about the game is irrelevant.

The rest I disagree with, it isn't shallow at all and the role playing is good but thats just personal opinion.

Indeed...YOUR personal opinion is not MY personal opinion.     They don't have to match or be the same.    My perspective is not the same as yours...I am not joined at the hip or head with you.   I  am a different person with a different opinion.    Can you handle that?

Pointless bickering about whether or not someone can critique your opinion is still pointless

And criticizing that particular activity is ALSO pointless   Best to stay out of it in that case..wouldn't you agree?

[Gotholhorakh]

Haexpane wrote...

The entire Fable series is a joke on gamers and their mismanaged expectations.   Fable is some sort of Meta experiment, by the genius deviator known as Molyneux.  He set out to prove that you can promise incredible features, put huge amounts of financial backing behind it, and just release a mish mashed clone with kiddie graphix and sell it through good numbers without any sense of originality or RPG qualiy.

...and yet this is exactly the kind of "RPG" that you get when your primary focus is to sell millions of units to educationally subnormal 12-year-olds with 12 button control pads which absolutely max out their capacity for complexity and their attention span. Don't get me wrong, Fable is good at being dumb fun, which is all it has ever tried to be, but it would be a sad world if that was as complex and subtle as the RPG experience got.

As it happens, Fable is the utter pinnacle of that "sub-genre" so far, and is the very greatest soaring height we can aspire to if "Dumb fun" becomes the mission statement of DA (or if indeed it already is, I don't know - I could draw your attention to DA2's design changes if I were more cynical about it).

It doesn't look good, said demographic can already be spotted swilling around here grunting monosyllabically about inventories being too complicated, lauding DA2 as the greatest RPG ever to have existed for all sorts of reasons that make no earthly sense as RPG critique (as far as I can see, I could be wrong) and furnishing those who dare to disagree with such steely intellectual ripostes as "Only hataz dun liek dragon air or wut eva its callt" and "I can't use mods so nobody should be able to have them".

Also, showering us all with lovely homophobic viewpoints on character romances, which for now are laughed out of court, but later when they are driving the growth, when Johnny CoDgriefer IS the bottom line - will they be laughed out of court then? I don't think anyone can promise us that without a crystal ball.

If that is where it's headed then at some point, DA will get the dumb fun thing right, hit the button for awesome growth (I wish I could think of a name for such a button but... no, it escapes me) and those of us who have enjoyed their RPGs for their beauty, complexity, choice and diversity of character possibilities, who have followed and supported by buying the games and the novels and the merch and so on will become a footnote, relics to BioWare of a bygone age...

...until someone else comes along who does it right, and away we go! Change is life, I guess.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 20 juillet 2011 - 03:42 .

[Sutekh]

@Gotholhorakh

Holy blanket statements, Batman! 

Whether or not some of your points were valid, you just insulted me, my kids, my friends and a good chunk of the world population.

Everyone liking Fable is an educationally-challenged 12-year-old with short attention-span. All CoD players are illiterate homophobes (hear that, my son! That you go up in arms to defend LGBT folks doesn't count. You play CoD, you're homophobic). People who dare liking DA2 "grunt monosyllabically" (OK. That one gave a rather hilarious mental image of ****** Faber zombies playing their favorite game, but still).

You take one (admittedly very vocal) small part of the demographic and judge the whole from there. And I honestly have seen more asinine "awesome button" moron-interrupt in places which had nothing to do with that than "Only hataz dun liek dragon air or wut eva its callt" Actually, the latter is a rare thing to behold, because that kind of persons usually thrive on negativity.

People like different games for different reasons, at different moments. Judging someone's intellectual capacities from the games they like playing, and putting us, RPG players, on the top of evolution is smug, narrow-minded elitism at best, and generally offensive.

What it's not is convincing the Power That Be that complexity and depth are a good thing. If you deem the majority as dumb, and if they think so too, then, yes, we'll have games which will be more and more dumbed down in the future. 

[Sylvianus]

I really want to know where does come from the hatred of Call of Duty.

Every time I see someone talking about CoD, it's like spitting in the face of someone, as if it was the worst insult ever known. XD

[alex90c]

Probably because people are buying the same rehashed stuff and then even having to [I[pay[/I] for new maps. Now while I like shooters, I think the last point is absolute BS; if you check mods for Call of Duty 1/2 and especially Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory the amount of fan-made maps for the latter is just amazing. Now however, people have to actually pay for them as DLC.

[LPPrince]

Sutekh wrote...

People like different games for different reasons, at different moments. Judging someone's intellectual capacities from the games they like playing, and putting us, RPG players, on the top of evolution is smug, narrow-minded elitism at best, and generally offensive.

What it's not is convincing the Power That Be that complexity and depth are a good thing. If you deem the majority as dumb, and if they think so too, then, yes, we'll have games which will be more and more dumbed down in the future. 

This was amazing.

[JeeWeeJ]

No, nothing has changed for me.
As someone else said: Origins is still installed on my PC, DA2 is gathering dust on a shelf somewhere.

And believe me, i tried loving DA2 as i loved Origins and the other BW rpg's. And its not the repeated enviroments, that didnt really bother me, its that its SO MUCH different from the game i love so much.

I loathed the fast arcade-like combat, disliked the player character, really disliked the new art style (i mean, qunari have horns now????? Where did that come from?? A comic or something??? The first Qunari i saw gave me a proper sense of dispair that something was wrong with this game. Where did the Sten look go???), disliked the storytelling, even though the story in act 1 and 2 is OK-ish..

And the thing i disliked most in the end was that its called Dragon Age 2. As in: a sequel! ITS NOT!!!


And the true reason behind all this nerdrage of mine?? I love Bioware and the Dragonage brand as they originally intended it ("in the spirit of Baldur's Gate") and DA2 felt something like your favorite rockband suddenly decided to make techno music..

DA3 better be good...but i doubt it.

*goes back to dark corner*

Modifié par JeeWeeJ, 20 juillet 2011 - 08:14 .

[Gotholhorakh]

Sutekh wrote...

@Gotholhorakh

Holy blanket statements, Batman! 

Whether or not some of your points were valid, you just insulted me, my kids, my friends and a good chunk of the world population.

Everyone liking Fable is an educationally-challenged 12-year-old with short attention-span. All CoD players are illiterate homophobes (hear that, my son! That you go up in arms to defend LGBT folks doesn't count. You play CoD, you're homophobic). People who dare liking DA2 "grunt monosyllabically" (OK. That one gave a rather hilarious mental image of ****** Faber zombies playing their favorite game, but still).

You take one (admittedly very vocal) small part of the demographic and judge the whole from there. And I honestly have seen more asinine "awesome button" moron-interrupt in places which had nothing to do with that than "Only hataz dun liek dragon air or wut eva its callt" Actually, the latter is a rare thing to behold, because that kind of persons usually thrive on negativity.

People like different games for different reasons, at different moments. Judging someone's intellectual capacities from the games they like playing, and putting us, RPG players, on the top of evolution is smug, narrow-minded elitism at best, and generally offensive.

What it's not is convincing the Power That Be that complexity and depth are a good thing. If you deem the majority as dumb, and if they think so too, then, yes, we'll have games which will be more and more dumbed down in the future. 

Holy assumptions, batperson!

You jump the gun a little yourself, my good person.

1. I own Fable myself, as alluded to by me saying it's "good at being dumb fun".

"Fable is the best kind of RPG you can hope for when you aim at idiots" ≠ "Everyone who plays fable is an idiot".


2. I talk about aiming at idiots, and about the possibility of "dumb fun" being the mission statement. I point to the instances of homophobia, I mention the idea of a "CoD griefer". At no point do I say "everyone who plays CoD is homophobic".


3. I own and play FPS titles myself, and some. While I'm not conceited enough to think anyone would remember, I have been quick to mention it and slap down the "FPS players vs RPG players" myth at length, a few times on these forums.

The fact that I use the name "Johnny CoDgriefer" as a derogatory term for the squealing 12-year-olds we all get annoyed with on voip who spend all their time calling people (choice of derogatory homophobic/racist names left to the reader) and dying in a heartbeat, and that I characterise homophobic gamers as these griefers because they are vocally idiots, and vocally homophobic by choice, does not amount to me saying all CoD players are idiots.

"when Johnny CoDgriefer IS the bottom line" ≠ "people who play CoD are idiots"

Idiots are idiots, griefers are griefers, unpleasant people are unpleasant people.


I did not say, what you read. Perhaps I am partly to blame for being a bit sharp and loquacious and giving a general impression of "eugh! who are all these idiots?!", we all have the occasional morning where the coffee pot breaks - but back up the tanks for a moment, they're on the wrong lawn.

What it's not is convincing the Power That Be that complexity and depth are a good thing. If you deem the majority as dumb, and if they think so too, then, yes, we'll have games which will be more and more dumbed down in the future. 

I don't think, from what I've seen, that the people making the games need any convincing that choice, complexity, depth and freedom in RPGs are a good thing. Not in the least, which is what would make it sad if stuff did move in the "dumb fun" direction - the problem with the creatives and developers in projects is that they usually have either a) a sad lack of control over project direction or a disastrous excess of control over project direction.

I'm not going to spend time debating whether the majority of people are dumb, the truth or otherwise in that is obvious to each of us as appropriate.

Judging someone's intellectual capacities from the games they like
playing, and putting us, RPG players, on the top of evolution is smug,
narrow-minded elitism at best, and generally offensive.

Yeah it is, and I didn't do that. The notion of the RPG playerbase being different from others is one I've taken issue with any number of times.

At no point do I fall prey to that myth, nor did I ONCE say or suggest that "All people who play x are stupid/nasty/whatever", my comment being that if the game is, as some might fear, to be marketed at idiots, it will go down the tubes and the rest of us (by which I mean "people who don't like it and aren't idiots", just before you decide who I meant by that) will move on.

 Before you jump down someone's throat for saying "All people who play x are stupid/nasty/whatever", you might want to check they actually did so.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 21 juillet 2011 - 09:18 .

[Sutekh]

@Gotholhorakh

Oh come on. I've read your post four times before replying to it. Whether it was your intent or not, that's how you came across. I'm not going to dissect it, but you did equate Fable lovers with ADHD 12-year-old, CoD with homophobia and DA2 partisans with barely evolved primates.

When you say "Game A is meant at ill-educated 12-year-old with ADHD" and I happen to love game A (which, btw, isn't the case for Fable, just talking generally here), it's not a leap in logic to interpret that as "You're an ill-educated 12-year-old with ADHD". When you make such an extreme statement, you never know who is at the receiving end of it. If it's people who don't consider said game as "dumb fun", how are they supposed to take this? Intent isn't magical, and people aren't telepaths.

Re: CoD. At no point did you mention a specific type of CoD player, and not everyone is familiar with the term griefer, nor are they supposed to be on an RPG board. CoD is a loaded topic, because it's often deemed as the Dark Dumb Side 'round here, for some obscure reasons. 

In your post, you define two demographics, "Them", who love Fable, play CoD (OK, CoD griefers specifically) and defend DA2, and "Us", who love deep and complex RPGs. Again, not a great leap in logic to see elitism there.

Not mentioning the double-standard when it comes to DA2 haters/lovers. Seriously, read some of the "hating" posts. The argument "All the companions are gay and after my PC's *ss" does not come from DA2 lovers, but from people who also complain about DA2 over-simplification, so-called "black and white" choices, lack thereof, anime combat and the "awesome button". Blind hate is way more easy to find than blind love, especially when it comes to this game.

So I'm a little lost about who is in which demographic here, tbh. Or, to be accurate, whether there is a clear, defined demographic to begin with.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not very happy about the streamlining, or reading that DA2 was aimed at people who couldn't finish DAO for such and such reason, because my first reaction to that is "have them go play another franchise, then, and leave my beloved one alone". I like DA2, I do, but I'm aware of its flaws. This said, I don't picture myself in some sort of sieged True RPG castle, assaulted by orc-ish barbarian hordes "swilling around here grunting monosyllabically" (ngl, I love that sentence), which is the picture you painted.

Anyway, I wasn't attacking you, or "jumping down your throat". Believe me, when I do that, the tone and choice of words are different. As far as I know, you may be the loveliest person on Earth. But since you're no telepath either, I apologize I came across as doing so.

[LPPrince]

Hey, you two. Wanna keep the integrity of the thread alive by not going back and forth with your current shindig?

[Haexpane]

xenn wrote...

I was mostly disappointed because i pre-ordered and paid the full price

Exactly, I PO'd the SigED for full price... I was also SOLD that the SigEd was a "LIMITED TIME PreOrder ONLY" and now it's on amazon for less than half the price during the b2g1?  Salt in said wound

[Haexpane]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

The entire Fable series is a joke on gamers and their mismanaged expectations.   Fable is some sort of Meta experiment, by the genius deviator known as Molyneux.  He set out to prove that you can promise incredible features, put huge amounts of financial backing behind it, and just release a mish mashed clone with kiddie graphix and sell it through good numbers without any sense of originality or RPG qualiy.

...and yet this is exactly the kind of "RPG" that you get when your primary focus is to sell millions of units to educationally subnormal 12-year-olds with 12 button control pads which absolutely max out their capacity for complexity and their attention span. Don't get me wrong, Fable is good at being dumb fun, which is all it has ever tried to be, but it would be a sad world if that was as complex and subtle as the RPG experience got.

As it happens, Fable is the utter pinnacle of that "sub-genre" so far, and is the very greatest soaring height we can aspire to if "Dumb fun" becomes the mission statement of DA (or if indeed it already is, I don't know - I could draw your attention to DA2's design changes if I were more cynical about it).

It doesn't look good, said demographic can already be spotted swilling around here grunting monosyllabically about inventories being too complicated, lauding DA2 as the greatest RPG ever to have existed for all sorts of reasons that make no earthly sense as RPG critique (as far as I can see, I could be wrong) and furnishing those who dare to disagree with such steely intellectual ripostes as "Only hataz dun liek dragon air or wut eva its callt" and "I can't use mods so nobody should be able to have them".

Also, showering us all with lovely homophobic viewpoints on character romances, which for now are laughed out of court, but later when they are driving the growth, when Johnny CoDgriefer IS the bottom line - will they be laughed out of court then? I don't think anyone can promise us that without a crystal ball.

If that is where it's headed then at some point, DA will get the dumb fun thing right, hit the button for awesome growth (I wish I could think of a name for such a button but... no, it escapes me) and those of us who have enjoyed their RPGs for their beauty, complexity, choice and diversity of character possibilities, who have followed and supported by buying the games and the novels and the merch and so on will become a footnote, relics to BioWare of a bygone age...

...until someone else comes along who does it right, and away we go! Change is life, I guess.

 
That being
said, Saint's Row:The
Third which is itself some sort of meta-parody Homage to GTA
(before GTA became an Smart Phone simulator)  actually has...

wait for it..

"AWESOME BUTTON". 
They literally put in an "awesome" button that you press to
"make whatever you are doing awesome".  So instead of car
jacking someone out of the driver side, press the AWESOME BUTTON and you
double drop kick them out of the passenger side window, and floor the accel and
speed away.



Brilliant.  It's a parody, yet gameplay functional and something the user
can choose to activate at their own discretion. Instead of



"every time you press a button, something awesome happens."

it is

"Every time you press the AWESOME button, something awesome happens"



Brilliant in it's elegance.

The best part is Saints Row 1 was ok, Saints Row 2 was very well done but had major problems with the technology.  Saints Row 3 looks to keep improving.

They took something fun and instead of "Cutting out what didnt work" they tried to refine things and make things work.

IMO that's a better design approach,  sure it's nice to cut all the fat off of a piece of meat, but when you do that, you end up with a tiny lil chunk of meat that is easy to overcook.

Modifié par Haexpane, 21 juillet 2011 - 10:16 .

[Haexpane]

Sutekh wrote...

@Gotholhorakh

Holy blanket statements, Batman! 

Whether or not some of your points were valid, you just insulted me, my kids, my friends and a good chunk of the world population.

Everyone liking Fable is an educationally-challenged 12-year-old with short attention-span. All CoD players are illiterate homophobes (hear that, my son! That you go up in arms to defend LGBT folks doesn't count. You play CoD, you're homophobic). People who dare liking DA2 "grunt monosyllabically" (OK. That one gave a rather hilarious mental image of ****** Faber zombies playing their favorite game, but still).

 

 
I think he was doing it for literary effect.   Not
a literal insult.

I've played a lot of Fable 1 and II, but I know they are garbage games and Fable 1 almost made me want to flush my OGXBOX down the turlet.

Modifié par Haexpane, 21 juillet 2011 - 10:17 .

[Haexpane]

Sylvianus wrote...

I really want to know where does come from the hatred of Call of Duty.

Every time I see someone talking about CoD, it's like spitting in the face of someone, as if it was the worst insult ever known. XD

I blame Charlie Sheen and IGN.com

[Haexpane]

Sutekh wrote...

@Gotholhorakh

Oh come on. I've read your post four times before replying to it. Whether it was your intent or not, that's how you came across. I'm not going to dissect it, but you did equate Fable lovers with ADHD 12-year-old, CoD with homophobia and DA2 partisans with barely evolved primates.

When you say "Game A is meant at ill-educated 12-year-old with ADHD" and I happen to love game A (which, btw, isn't the case for Fable, just talking generally here)

exactly, you are being hypothetically offended by your interpretation of a clever post.   It's bogus, you're not offended and his post was just kinda funny and you made it into "he called everyone stupid!" which it clearly was not. 

Enjoyable jabs at obvious stereotypes can indeed be enjoyable.

[Stanley Woo]

Let's take the hysteria, hyperbole, and hate down a few H-notches, please. We can (and should) disagree with each other without resorting to insults, name-calling or generally slagging entire demographics of people. Thank you.

[errant_knight]

I feel exactly the same as I did on first playing it, although I'm less upset about it. I've gone back to DA:O and am still finding new things to do and having a lot of fun doing do. So life goes on and I can still enjoy Dragon Age. Just not this one.

[ARustyFirePlace]

it sucks

[WestBioWoodWare]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let's take the hysteria, hyperbole, and hate down a few H-notches, please. We can (and should) disagree with each other without resorting to insults, name-calling or generally slagging entire demographics of people. Thank you.

Wait.

So a Bioware employee, Bioware being the company who openly slagged entire demographics of people with DA2, is asking people not to slag entire demographics?

Oh this is rich.

[alex90c]

WestBioWoodWare wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let's take the hysteria, hyperbole, and hate down a few H-notches, please. We can (and should) disagree with each other without resorting to insults, name-calling or generally slagging entire demographics of people. Thank you.

Wait.

So a Bioware employee, Bioware being the company who openly slagged entire demographics of people with DA2, is asking people not to slag entire demographics?

Oh this is rich.

Not really. You just can't handle our innovations.

[John Epler]

alex90c wrote...

WestBioWoodWare wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let's take the hysteria, hyperbole, and hate down a few H-notches, please. We can (and should) disagree with each other without resorting to insults, name-calling or generally slagging entire demographics of people. Thank you.

Wait.

So a Bioware employee, Bioware being the company who openly slagged entire demographics of people with DA2, is asking people not to slag entire demographics?

Oh this is rich.

Not really. You just can't handle our innovations.

If you find yourself unable to comply with a simple request for civility, please, let me know now and save us all some time and pain.

[Mr Chr15topher]

  I love the story-line of this game, as well as improved visuals and controls (xbox 360). Everything about this game I found amazing except that even though the game wasn't very big, Bioware kept re-using the same 3 or 4 cave layouts for every tunnel or cave. Fair enough if it's the same entrance, then you would expect the same cave/ tunnel, but Simply using different section of the caves for different levels was really annoying.
  And unfortunatly it's not one of the bad features that you can ignore and sweep under the carpet, as many of the main quests alone show these repetitive section before you even get to the sife-quests.
  Hopefully Bioware will learn from the community feed-back and do well with their upcoming DLC.

[berelinde]

Mr Chr15topher wrote...
... Fair enough if it's the same entrance, then you would expect the same cave/ tunnel, but Simply using different section of the caves for different levels was really annoying.
.

Yeah, this comes up a lot. I'm not too bothered by it, but everyone has different tastes.

What gets me is the single instance where an entrance is used for two different quests and has two different interiors. But that's dancing to close to spoilers to elaborate further.