466 réponses à ce sujet

[_Davidian_]

still think the game is the same dissapointment it was when it was released.

I just hope that some day people will realize that not every game have to be a call of duty. Some of us still want to think a little bit while playing, to have some character/equipment management, to have to follow a strategy while fighting. It would also be nice that when you have to choose an answer the game didn´t tell you so clearly which one is the good one, the bad and the sarcastic. Don´t like enemies falling from the sky either. I have COD infinite enemy respawn for that

i just hope that developers like cd projekt, witcher series, who treats players as adults, have enough success to keep on bringing more quality rpg´s. Or even better, that bioware go back and make the kind of game they used to

this dragon age with it´s stupid awesome button represents all that i hate in the fall of rpg gaming. Make it easier, easier, easier so people don´t get scared when the have to read more than 3 lines of text. You know, when i want that kind of game i look for COD not for a bioware´s game

just to finish my comment, don´t take me too serious, i just had a bad day

byep

[erynnar]

Morroian wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Morroian wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Yup I cooled down, I dont hate it anymore ... I just dont care that much ... game still piece of crap

Yet you care enough to come on here and post about it and insult those who do like it.

They said the game is a piece of crap, not that you are. *HUGS*

Like cfsteer said she posted a remark on another thread insulting those who like DA2.

Thanks for the hug though 

Oh, well then let me get my rolled up newspaper for them. And *HUG* again!

[Redcoat]

Itkovian wrote...

sevalaricgirl wrote...

I played DA2 3 times, once for each class, and then stopped but I'm playing it again and I still very much like the voiced protagonist (female Hawke), the characters especially Varrick and most of the quests. I still don't like the reuse of environments, the other quests, the insane spawning of enemies, the lack of substantial story, and the time skips. It's a fun game if you don't treat it as an rpg but treat it as an action adventure which is really what it is. I don't consider it an rpg and it and Mass Effect 2 should have been tagged action adventures. In fact on Steam, both games are not shown under rpg, they are shown under action adventure.

See, that baffles me. The only different in RPG elements between DAO and DAII is the removal of character skills.

Is that enough to cancel its RPG status?

All other RPG elements are still there. Is it just that combat is faster-paced?

My point is, objectively the only RPG element that was removed was character skills. Everything else remains. So unless character skills are the determining factor of an RPG, then it remains an RPG.

Itkovian

Well, the removal of non-combat skills, and making character stats relevant only in combat, means that my Hawke has no real intristic qualities beyond how well he makes things go from living to dead. You cannot, for example, create a Hawke that uses wit or guile to get out of situations (say, like Varric) instead of just fighting.

Not only that, Hawke's stats are basically meaningless, because all gear for your class requires the same two stats, so you'll always be pumping STR and CON for warriors, DEX and CUN for Rogues, or MAG and WIL for mages. There's very little variation (if any) in how you build your characters. And because all enemies scale to your level without any sort of limit, all your stat boosts really do is keep you equivalent to everyone else.

[Morroian]

Redcoat wrote...

Well, the removal of non-combat skills, and making character stats relevant only in combat, means that my Hawke has no real intristic qualities beyond how well he makes things go from living to dead. You cannot, for example, create a Hawke that uses wit or guile to get out of situations (say, like Varric) instead of just fighting.

Yeah you can, witty Hawke will talk himself/herself out of the Karras fight just like Varric. The way they do it has changed in that it depends on how you build Hawke's personality but its there in another form from skills or attributes.

Redcoat wrote...

Not only that, Hawke's stats are basically meaningless, because all gear for your class requires the same two stats, so you'll always be pumping STR and CON for warriors, DEX and CUN for Rogues, or MAG and WIL for mages. There's very little variation (if any) in how you build your characters. And because all enemies scale to your level without any sort of limit, all your stat boosts really do is keep you equivalent to everyone else.

Just like DAO but there still room for some variation. I've built a more critical hit driven version of a mage using dex and cunning.

[Sengoku no Maou]

I feel the same way I did after I first played the game. It's a good game, but it's not something I'll play playing for years or that I'll be remembering fondly.

[BKTZLNT]

I started playing a new Mage m!Hawke after randomly watching the opening trailer and wanting to do canon playthrough. And also to have a playthrough Legacy-ready.

Having not played Origins right before this playthrough like i did my first two, I have to say this game is casually fun. Like, say, the Scott Pilgrim beat-em-up. That's what it feels like; a slightly in-depth beat-em-up. The story seems to be there to, well, give you a reason to beat people up. So yea, it still feels hella shallow. Like the random, self-contained scenarios in different beat-em-up stages, the Acts feel like less-random, just as self-contained scenarios. But the combat is just as fun, simple, and repetitive.

As far as the characters...Merrill is still cute. Isabella is still a real chick, albeit a little loose. Okay alot loose. Aveline still has me wondering how she got married, twice. I now hate Fenris more because he really does seem like he's from an anime. Anders...stfu. I like Varric more, also realized he has the same name as the Proving-Enthusiast in DAO. I've seen ground-picking NPCs with more personality than Sebastion...I paid for that mother--. I like Carver sometimes these days, he is a brash 18-20 year old while he's in your party, and I understand his whining now. Bethany is boring, shut up about the templars, we killed 750 darkspawn on the way here.

All in all, when I got the game in my hands, it was an 8/10 in my head. When I played through the first two times, 6/10. And now, playing and not trying to fit it into some predetermined mold, and accepting that it's just a (very) fancy beat-em-up, 7.5/10. I won't resell it after all.

[Itkovian]

Redcoat wrote...

Well, the removal of non-combat skills, and making character stats relevant only in combat, means that my Hawke has no real intristic qualities beyond how well he makes things go from living to dead. You cannot, for example, create a Hawke that uses wit or guile to get out of situations (say, like Varric) instead of just fighting.

Not only that, Hawke's stats are basically meaningless, because all gear for your class requires the same two stats, so you'll always be pumping STR and CON for warriors, DEX and CUN for Rogues, or MAG and WIL for mages. There's very little variation (if any) in how you build your characters. And because all enemies scale to your level without any sort of limit, all your stat boosts really do is keep you equivalent to everyone else.

I don't recall stats being relevant outside of combat in DAO, aside from lockpicking, and intimidate and coerce options. DA2 has the former but not the latter. It does have however a conversation RP-based system, where if your character is frequently using a given style (like diplomatic), it unlocks special responses that allows you to resolve the situaiton easier (similar to the charm/intimidate options in ME2).

Granted, I would love to see fallout-style stat-based conversation options pertaining to all stats, but as I recall DAO had no such thing, or it was minimal (nothing like Fallout or KOTOR 2, for example).

As for stats being meaningless,  I completely disagree. A poor build will make things more difficult, while a good one will make things easier. States are part of that. I for one certainly have not been putting everything into Str and Con. In fact I think it's the opposite: each individual stat has significant effect. As a warrior, the only ones I don't use are Magic and Cunning. Str, Dex, Con, and Will all have various levels of investment. This is even truer now that items don't require a high secondary stat. This is certainly no worse than DAO, where the best option for 2-handers, for example, is to dump everything in strength (since hit points and stamina goes up every level).

Similarly, enemies in DAO did scale up as well, though granted they had level rangers based on areas. Regardless, scaling does not stop making it an RPG.

Itkovian

[Barbarossa2010]

Honestly, I never was over-heated about DA2.  So, there was never any need for me to cool down.  Just utter disappointment here. I didn't like DA2, didn't think it was a good game, even taken on it's own merits, and definitely thought it couldn't remotely stack up to it's predecessor.  The DA staff say they are listening, but it is evident in word and deed that they are not listening to me or those who may share my opinion.  They have their new vision which is certainly their perogative, and I certainly have my perogatives.  They have their product and their vision for it, and I have my dollars, and ne'er shall the two meet within the context of DA2 any longer. 

Since DA2 was purportedly developed for those who didn't like Origins, will that be the development methodology going forward?  Just think that is a weird business model if you ask me.  Of course, they probably won't and the franchise will be stuck in the mediocrity loop of DA2, while the excellence that was Origins will just fade into Baldur's Gate-like nostalgia.  Shame really.

I've moved on (like the DA Team has moved on) to games that have the same appeal as Origins to me, since BW, by all evidence I have access to, no longer desires my business.  I will play ME3 of course.  The illusion that BW would never forget their hardcore Origins audience has run it's course, and attempting to affect change through feedback on this forum has shown itself an exercise in futility.  They have their new vision for the franchise it appears that's that.
 
I'm passing on any DLC for DA2 (first BW DLC I've passed on).  I didn't like the game and see no reason to extend the experience any further.   Will most likely pass on DA3, based on developer comments here and commentary from their executive leadership.  Bottom line that I see based upon observations of the last four months of discourse regarding this game, is that DA will return to Origins form when hell freezes over, so understood.  No anger, no ire, just utter disappointment that excellence has given way to faster, cheaper mediocrity and that my business is no longer truly wanted by this franchise.  Message received.

Back to Old World Blues.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 26 juillet 2011 - 08:30 .

[Orion34]

I was actually very disappointed with DA2 just until recently. All the drastic changes that were made ended up being a little overwhelming for me at first. Not to mention the game does have some serious hang ups and has all the signs of being rushed. And while there is no excuse for some of the flaws, I did end up adapting to a good number of the changes. Also can't help but love the lore of this series. Some of the conversations with characters like Sten,Wynne and the Arishok have actually stopped me in my tracks and made me reflect/meditate upon the viewpoint. I was even on the verge of tears towards the end of Origins when saying farewell to my companions. Might sound silly,but I've never responded like that to any videogame before. So that's what helps me become a little more tolerant to the sequels shortcomings. Fantastic story and world, just a lot of questionable choices made.

So yes,I have definitely cooled down and am able to accept DA2 for what it is. And from what I hear,it looks like most of the problems I had with the game have been fixed with Legacy. Hoping it continues in that direction,this series has too much potential.

[Tirfan]

Orion34 wrote...

I was actually very disappointed with DA2 just until recently. All the drastic changes that were made ended up being a little overwhelming for me at first. Not to mention the game does have some serious hang ups and has all the signs of being rushed. And while there is no excuse for some of the flaws, I did end up adapting to a good number of the changes. Also can't help but love the lore of this series. Some of the conversations with characters like Sten,Wynne and the Arishok have actually stopped me in my tracks and made me reflect/meditate upon the viewpoint. I was even on the verge of tears towards the end of Origins when saying farewell to my companions. Might sound silly,but I've never responded like that to any videogame before. So that's what helps me become a little more tolerant to the sequels shortcomings. Fantastic story and world, just a lot of questionable choices made.

So yes,I have definitely cooled down and am able to accept DA2 for what it is. And from what I hear,it looks like most of the problems I had with the game have been fixed with Legacy. Hoping it continues in that direction,this series has too much potential.

Nah, tears aren't a bad thing or something to be ashamed of - I can admit I cried the one (or maybe two, but don't tell this to the GF) manly tear at the end of witch hunt when my Warden was finally reunited with Morrigan. It just means the game was great - there just was so much emotional investment on my part in the Warden/Morriga-romance..

[Orion34]

Tirfan wrote...

Orion34 wrote...

I was actually very disappointed with DA2 just until recently. All the drastic changes that were made ended up being a little overwhelming for me at first. Not to mention the game does have some serious hang ups and has all the signs of being rushed. And while there is no excuse for some of the flaws, I did end up adapting to a good number of the changes. Also can't help but love the lore of this series. Some of the conversations with characters like Sten,Wynne and the Arishok have actually stopped me in my tracks and made me reflect/meditate upon the viewpoint. I was even on the verge of tears towards the end of Origins when saying farewell to my companions. Might sound silly,but I've never responded like that to any videogame before. So that's what helps me become a little more tolerant to the sequels shortcomings. Fantastic story and world, just a lot of questionable choices made.

So yes,I have definitely cooled down and am able to accept DA2 for what it is. And from what I hear,it looks like most of the problems I had with the game have been fixed with Legacy. Hoping it continues in that direction,this series has too much potential.

Nah, tears aren't a bad thing or something to be ashamed of - I can admit I cried the one (or maybe two, but don't tell this to the GF) manly tear at the end of witch hunt when my Warden was finally reunited with Morrigan. It just means the game was great - there just was so much emotional investment on my part in the Warden/Morriga-romance..

At least you shed tears over a human. I got all choked up when saying goodbye to the dog XD

[MAIDENHEAD 666]

When I first played the game I was incredibly disappointed about everything in it. I am now on my 2nd playthrough and wishing to see/do something that's impressive but I'm not getting my hopes up. I doubt if I'll finish it. I also understand that DA3 will not go back to an Origins style so I will be saving my money for something else. So much opportunity for the World of Thedas thrown away for some fast bucks with a glorified Hack and Slash Beat em Up. I already have those kind of games, I don't want one disguised as an RPG.

[heathxxx]

I haven't bothered with a second play-through of DAII, or bought any DLC. For all the other BioWare games I own, I have purchased all DLC available.

I simply didn't like DAII, compared to Origins. Rushed, poorly executed and stepped too far away from Origins to justify it's "Sequel" tag. The only thing I could hand-on-heart say I found praiseworthy, was some of the voice acting.

ME3 will probably be the final BioWare product I buy. My lack of confidence has more to do with mismanagement of the studio by EA than anything else. For the same reasons, I refuse to buy any other EA Games products, because I've felt the same dismay with other franchises and studios they've tainted with their ineptitude and lies.

Modifié par heathxxx, 30 juillet 2011 - 07:24 .

[Vanaer]

Having played Legacy has had me a bit more enthusiastic about the game. While it's obviously not the jewel Origins was, I still think it's a good game (just not fantastic). I found and still find the graphics not much an improvement and am still very much disturbed by the repetitive environments (which is in my eyes, the most serious short coming of this game).

I, for one, like how the story unfolds: Hawke is unknowingly making excrements hit the fan. That's a nice twist to the uber-Hero almost meta gaming him/herself towards the known goal against impossible odds. You're not the hurricane, you're in the hurricane surfing the winds of change. I still like that; that doesn't mean your choice is less meaningful, because it should still be meaningful to Hawke. The only thing I dislike is the forcing of decisions by making it unable to avoid decisions. Like the amulet-thing.

A lot of problems this game has, are easily solved; that also gives me confidence for DA III - it only depends on the will of BioWare to address the concerns of the hardcore minority here on the forums and review sites or to cater to the mainstream majority that will buy any well marketed product (Button! Awesome! Dragon! w00t!).

Modifié par Vanaer, 30 juillet 2011 - 08:30 .

[Alexander1136]

Tirfan wrote...

Orion34 wrote...

I was actually very disappointed with DA2 just until recently. All the drastic changes that were made ended up being a little overwhelming for me at first. Not to mention the game does have some serious hang ups and has all the signs of being rushed. And while there is no excuse for some of the flaws, I did end up adapting to a good number of the changes. Also can't help but love the lore of this series. Some of the conversations with characters like Sten,Wynne and the Arishok have actually stopped me in my tracks and made me reflect/meditate upon the viewpoint. I was even on the verge of tears towards the end of Origins when saying farewell to my companions. Might sound silly,but I've never responded like that to any videogame before. So that's what helps me become a little more tolerant to the sequels shortcomings. Fantastic story and world, just a lot of questionable choices made.

So yes,I have definitely cooled down and am able to accept DA2 for what it is. And from what I hear,it looks like most of the problems I had with the game have been fixed with Legacy. Hoping it continues in that direction,this series has too much potential.

Nah, tears aren't a bad thing or something to be ashamed of - I can admit I cried the one (or maybe two, but don't tell this to the GF) manly tear at the end of witch hunt when my Warden was finally reunited with Morrigan. It just means the game was great - there just was so much emotional investment on my part in the Warden/Morriga-romance..

I Cried at the end of witch hunt too. throughout DA2 all i ever said was "WTF" .. no amount of DLC will change that. that being said im starting to be able to let origins go. it was a once in a decade like game. maybe 3 will live up to it but i doubt it. especially if they continue w/ current direction.

[Ariella]

JohnEpler wrote...



I think you're grossly misrepresenting what I said. I feel the Codex is best used when it's giving the player ancilliary information that they might not otherwise have access to - things like flavour, in-character essays, that sort of thing. However, sometimes, we lean on the Codex a little too hard to tell you things that would be stronger if they were shown through the world and through gameplay. I don't feel that's a particular controversial position to take - I'm not saying 'less reading is always better!', but, well, I feel that since this is an interactive medium, wherever possible, let's let you discover things through interactivity. A good example that's been brought up is the Enigma of Kirkwall - as it stands, it's entirely Codex-based. It might have been stronger if we'd shown signs of the Veil being thinner at Kirkwall, and little hints through gameplay and in-engine stuff that says 'hey, here's this important fact about Kirkwall' because, well, it -is- important information.

This is actually kinda funny, because I never read the Enigma of Kirkwall codex, but found it easy to see that the Veil was thinner than most places (I compared Kirkwall to Sunnydale multiple times in the past). And while I agree "showing it" probably would have been more effective like maybe the slight swirls of mana or the Fade in Lowtown at night, or flashbacks in certain really low Veil areas like the Bonepit.

[Haexpane]

At this point, completely apathetic about the DA2 franchise. The DAO franchise is dead, it's DA2 from here on out. Just like the ME RPG was killed off and rebooted as a slow action game.

Goodbye RPGs, I will miss you. Hello generic action games with bad stories and lots of LULZ choicessss BAD JEDI IS BAD!

[Bomberman65]

Itkovian wrote...

I'm replaying DA2 right now, and I have to admit I like it a lot. Excellent storytelling and directing, excellent combat.

The repetition is annoying, however, and I do miss a lot of the finer touches DAO had. But I can see that at its core DAII is an excellent game, marred by a too-short developement cycle. I am willing to overlook the problems this created (re-use of areas, lack of "flavour" elements such as item descriptions and more elaborate itemization), so this allows me to enjoy more.

But in general, aside from those flaws, I enjoy most of Dragon Age II. The companions, the new dialogue, the new combat, the framed narrative, the structure of the story that is more centered on Hawke's journey through the years than on a Big Bad Evil. I love it.

Overall, however, I think the problem with DAII was that it broke too many conventions for RPGs while at the same time suffering from a significant lack of polish due to the short developement time.

Given that it is a sequel to a game that was knee-deep in fantasy conventions (not that DAO didn't eschew its share of tropes), and had an unprecedented level of polish and detail (owing to a rare 5-year dev cycle), and it becomes obvious why DAII was not well received by many fans.

Had DAII had another year to polish and clean up the game, and avoid reusing maps so much, I think the general reaction would have been far more positive. The significant differences from DAO coupled with its objectively lower quality (due to much shorter dev cycle) was simply too much.

Thank you.

Itkovian

I couldnt agree with you more. I feel exactly the same for DAII. I love the DA series to death But I do agree that with about atleast another year of devlopment time it would have been able to fix most of the flaws of DAII. I still love the series and I throughly enjoyed the second DA but not as much as DA:O but thats probably due to all the varity of places you go to in Origins. Thats what I was disapointed about the most in DAII.
Still overall I loved it and am looking forward to seeing where the series goes from here.

[Cell1e]

Well for me Dragon Age Origins was the best game I ever played, I played it so many times I have lost count, I loved replaying with all the mods too.
But since Awakenings I have missed the immersion I had with origins, the nail in the coffin was when Biware changed the DIALOGUE SYSTEM. Communication is a big thing to me, I love being able to talk to who I like when I like and in game, in Origins, I could click on any character at any time and have conversation, sometimes it was repeated topics but I didnt mind, it felt like my npc buddies were really real. I loved how Alistair came to me at many times during the game with a rose, or a thank you, or a passionate declaration of love. I loved being able to click on him when I wanted and chat or give him a kiss (although that was prob a mod) I loved being able to interact with the other characters in the same way too, I felt in control of my game and my relationships.
But since awakenings when that ability was taken from the game, I lost my connection to the characters.
To me DA2 was a terrible disappointment although I so desperately wanted to love it but I just had no control over the conversations, no connection to my love interest, even though he moved into my home, I really would have loved being able to go up and initiate conversation or a hug whenever I wanted. I still havent lost that sense of disappointment and have not replayed DA2 since, I played it about three times to try out the romance options but have no desire to go back and play it any more or to buy anymore dlc.
I have to be honest, I have no hopes for DA3 as by reading the forums I dont see this as a major issue for many and I cant see the developers going back to the origins style of character interaction. I have resigned myself to this but feel sad anyway as I feel that games like origins are gone forever.

DA2 isnt a bad game but not a great game and its not for me. Its too cold and clinical. It's like some type of generic action/adventure/shooter with a tiny bit of rpg.

I doubt somehow that we will see another origins type game out of Bioware but thats my wish.

Modifié par Cell1e, 03 août 2011 - 01:18 .

[Haexpane]

And finally, after deciding to put the final 1 hour of DA2 on the shelf unfinished, I am indeed cooled down. DA franchise is now dead to me, cold as a corpse. Goodbye my love, it was wonderful at first, but you're dead now.

[Dormiglione]

Still love DAO and started a new playthrough last week.
DA2 is still a big disappointment for me. Made only 4 playthroughs just to unlock all achievement. I gave Legacy a try and was pleasant surprised. Legacy is a good step in the right direction.

Bioware, Legacy shows the quality that DA2 must have had.

[Lellandra]

I agree with Cell1e about the characters and the interactions. I was cringing every time I said a flirt line. They came up on such weird moments! Also, my family was really disposable to me. No connection there either.

But after all this time I'm still mad about having to fight Orsino with my Mage Hawke even after siding with the mages. The fight was so forced! It was my biggest WTF moment of the game and it really ruined the whole thing for me. Nobody acknowledging me being a mage was pretty bad too.

In the end it was a 'Meh' game. I'm not giving up on BW at all, though. Already pre-ordered ME3 and I'm pretty sure I'll play SWTOR. I'm just leery about the DA franchise.

Modifié par Lellandra, 16 août 2011 - 03:10 .

[Bizantura]

Cooled down, yes but still as ever dissapointed. Legacy a step in the right direction but if DA3 stays a hack/slash with NPC interactions for the bearly arrived teenager in mind then I will defenetly not be buying it. Big boobs + ars an a large sword larger than the man himself is not what I expect in a adult game. I expect relationships to be of the quality of DAO and not mainly subliminal.

[addiction21]

Haexpane wrote...

At this point, completely apathetic about the DA2 franchise. The DAO franchise is dead, it's DA2 from here on out. Just like the ME RPG was killed off and rebooted as a slow action game.

Goodbye RPGs, I will miss you. Hello generic action games with bad stories and lots of LULZ choicessss BAD JEDI IS BAD!

I am a little late but thank you for my fix of melodrama and sensationalism for the night.

Modifié par addiction21, 16 août 2011 - 03:55 .

[Kileyan]

Honestly I will likely never cool down about DA2. It was an obvious short dev cycle cash grab, that was exacerbated by the extreme push of pre-orders. The dev's knew is was not very good and pushed it hard for a certain release date regardless of its quality.

This was a terrible game that was did out of EA's need to push a big selling game for a certain financial quarter. This would have been a good game if given another 6 months, more polish, and a much better 3rd act.

I'm sorry, as it was released, I can't help but feel is was a cheap cash grab game that was needed to be released for financial reasons, but was obviously not ready.

That said, I imagine part of the problem of the game was the dev's trying to change to many fundamental parts of the game, and not having enough time to actualy make a good game/story.

They did one thing well. the characters were good, even the characters I hated were still good. The game itself was just boring, repetitive, lacking, and very lacking in act 3.