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[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

JohnEpler wrote...

RussianSpy27 wrote...

John, your opinion is duly noted. However, as a fan of DA:O for its literary strength (and a huge fan of David Gaider's novels), I have to say that in my hubmle opinion, codex is brilliant and should not be decreased in any way. As much as I love DG's novels on my kindle, seeing some of the story and DAO lore in written form within the game itself is very important for me. It makes me feel as if I, the role playing hero, am actually picking up that scroll or a book about a part of Fereldan's history and that is a unique experience. 

Moreover, out of all the criticism the development team has recieved from critics and users about DA2, do you really believe that improving DA expansions/sequels includes decreased codex? 

I'm respectfully appauled at how out of all criticism posts, this suggestion actually recieves notable attention and agreement. As if the development team is thinking "hmmm so we got a B for DA2 from the community & critics and A for DA:O...what can we do? OH LOOK this guy feels presenting story in written codex form is weak...bingo!!!!


~RS

I think you're grossly misrepresenting what I said. I feel the Codex is best used when it's giving the player ancilliary information that they might not otherwise have access to - things like flavour, in-character essays, that sort of thing. However, sometimes, we lean on the Codex a little too hard to tell you things that would be stronger if they were shown through the world and through gameplay. I don't feel that's a particular controversial position to take - I'm not saying 'less reading is always better!', but, well, I feel that since this is an interactive medium, wherever possible, let's let you discover things through interactivity. A good example that's been brought up is the Enigma of Kirkwall - as it stands, it's entirely Codex-based. It might have been stronger if we'd shown signs of the Veil being thinner at Kirkwall, and little hints through gameplay and in-engine stuff that says 'hey, here's this important fact about Kirkwall' because, well, it -is- important information.

And contrary to what some think, I'm certainly not opposed to reading. My degree is in English, so a certain love of literature and reading is inherent in that However, I also believe that games have certain strengths and abilities that are unique to the medium that we should, wherever possible, capitalize on. Again, I'm not saying 'no more Codex! Let's take out every bit of reading from the game!', because that's simply not something I feel would be productive. Nor would that decision be in any way made by me, regardless of my personal feelings. What I -am- saying, however, is that we can work on the confluence of gameplay and narrative - the two should work together, rather than existing in almost separate boxes. And part of that is going to be bringing more of the narrative into the game world, whether through ambient events or any of the other tools in our toolbox.

EDIT: Corrected 'showed' to 'shown'. I will now hang my head in shame, as I have dishonoured my ancestors.

This this and a thousand times this.

The Codex is best used as a tool to present background information that while not pertinent to the story at hand is useful to expand the knowledge of the setting, its a tool for those players who wish to delve deeper into the lore of a setting and understand exactly what effect history has on their current quests.

But anything that affects the current scenario should be presented in game or be available to research in game, I loved the books in say BG 2 and the codex in DA  but for me the most appropriate use of Codex and ingame presentation was Mass Effect 1, which gave me all the flavour in the codex and all the required reading in game.

[nitefyre410]

I was never fired up and angry about the game why would I be - solid game, needs work, from story to world to presentation, skill trees etc, etc. Overall I was not 'let down' or 'Dissappointed' nor did I feel betrayed. Game series have done this before and survived DA will survive. So get back in the lab and get to work Bioware has there direction stick to it and make the best game that can be made.

[LobselVith8]

Barbarossa2010  wrote...

Honestly, I never was over-heated about DA2.  So, there was never any need for me to cool down.  Just utter disappointment here. I didn't like DA2, didn't think it was a good game, even taken on it's own merits, and definitely thought it couldn't remotely stack up to it's predecessor.  The DA staff say they are listening, but it is evident in word and deed that they are not listening to me or those who may share my opinion.  They have their new vision which is certainly their perogative, and I certainly have my perogatives.  They have their product and their vision for it, and I have my dollars, and ne'er shall the two meet within the context of DA2 any longer. 

Since DA2 was purportedly developed for those who didn't like Origins, will that be the development methodology going forward?  Just think that is a weird business model if you ask me.  Of course, they probably won't and the franchise will be stuck in the mediocrity loop of DA2, while the excellence that was Origins will just fade into Baldur's Gate-like nostalgia.  Shame really.

I've moved on (like the DA Team has moved on) to games that have the same appeal as Origins to me, since BW, by all evidence I have access to, no longer desires my business.  I will play ME3 of course.  The illusion that BW would never forget their hardcore Origins audience has run it's course, and attempting to affect change through feedback on this forum has shown itself an exercise in futility.  They have their new vision for the franchise it appears that's that.
 
I'm passing on any DLC for DA2 (first BW DLC I've passed on).  I didn't like the game and see no reason to extend the experience any further.   Will most likely pass on DA3, based on developer comments here and commentary from their executive leadership.  Bottom line that I see based upon observations of the last four months of discourse regarding this game, is that DA will return to Origins form when hell freezes over, so understood.  No anger, no ire, just utter disappointment that excellence has given way to faster, cheaper mediocrity and that my business is no longer truly wanted by this franchise.  Message received.

Back to Old World Blues.

Old World Blues is incredible, it's a really great DLC. Unfortunately, I played (and finished) it before playing Legacy, and the linear storyline and the "choice that doesn't matter" made me feel like I wasted my money (especially when Legacy cost the same amount as Old World Blues, and had less than a quarter of the content).

[Liaren]

I never have had to cool down about this game. I liked it. I dislike some things about the game like the recycled maps but nothing that totally puts me off. It's a bit different than DA: O. But I like both. I got attached to all the characters and I'm actually quite sad that Hawke's story is sort of over and that for DA3 they're moving on to a new protagonist.

Modifié par Liaren, 16 août 2011 - 04:53 .

[Vi73rion]

I've been playing for a couple of weeks now (just started act 3). Even though I enjoyed DAO immensely and preordered DA2, rl stuff prevented me from playing it until now. I was aware of the criticism and read a couple of reviews, so my expectations were somewhat low. Well guess what, I am enjoying this game very much. Other than the dungeon recycling which is indeed a shame, everything else looks great to me, or at least they don't bother me too much.
Perhaps it's the fact I wasn't expecting much, or that the hard difficulty is actually hard this time and presents really challenging encounters, while in DAO it felt ridiculously easy. Or that I'm playing the game after 3 patches. Or, that I am a dragon age fanboy
Bottom line is I am enjoying this as much I have enjoyed DAO.

[Waage25]

I still hate it.

It dose not get better in time.

[Riv2.0]

 Is it just me or would it be better if it wasn't called Dragon Age 2? Maybe Dragon Age Legend of Hawke, instead; not a direct sequel but still in continuity' like GTA: San Andreas, or Vice city.... you know? I think it was so bad for some because it wasn't half as awesome as DAO but it was still cool.

[Big_Chief]

Honestly, if anything my opinion of DA2 has significantly decreased since it came out. At first I really, really liked it. But in the months since then, I began noticing all the little things that either didn't bug me at first or I had glossed over the first time around. Not to mention things that I couldn't have noticed my first time around, that needed replays or input from other players, such as all choices amounting to the same thing. Or a certain character being back no matter what happened in Origins. I didn't even have a save where that character was dead, but I don't like it because it sets a precedent of choices being rewritten.

Significantly, I was still playing Origins months or even years after it came out. I always had an active save going. I played through 2 a few times, but some of my characters stalled to a stop months ago, and I haven't gone back since. That's the heart of the matter. I don't feel nearly the drive to keep playing it that I felt in Origins, and that is perhaps the most telling thing of all.

Edit: Just noticed something in my post that I thought I'd mention. I haven't gone back since with the exception of playing through Legacy. Which felt like a step in the right direction. It didn't address all or even most of my problems, no DLC could, but it was more enjoyable than a lot of the main game.

Modifié par Big_Chief, 18 août 2011 - 02:16 .

[Kileyan]

In the old days, I would play a Bioware game to death, try all the option in choices, I'd be a mage first, a warrior second, maybe a mage/rogue shadow the next. I had tons of options where even if the game story got stale, I could squeeze a lot of fun out of the game by simply playing the crazy crap tons of class combo's and magical item loadouts.

What happened with Biowares DA franchise is all those crazy builds and item choices got narrowed to a few and simplified. DA2 took it further and made it more like an MMO, where classes were strictly defined, and magic items were few and bland, and not of the level to change how you could play a class............not to mention most of that choice was removed anyway because you couldn't even equip most of what you found.

I'm not sure Bioware cares or even should care? They get no money out of me still playing NWN's years later. I can't say they are wrong selling a game for the same 59.95 that will only be played once or twice. I'm just saying I miss the 'other' games they made.

[MAIDENHEAD 666]

Yes I have calmed down about it. Now I just feel incredibly disappointed. Even with the patches, DLC and Legacy I have only completed the game twice. Doubt if I will ever play it again.

[LPPrince]

I dread going back to DA2 for the Supplier achievement, my last one.

After that, never touching it again. Ever.

[Texhnolyze101]

No i still hate it and always will.

[Samhiel]

I enjoyed DA2 more, story-line was more gripping, characters were just as interesting as DA:O Art-direction was more focused, it wasn't just Awesome Story, in Awesome World that looks like generic Fantasy world 123987921863

[AlfredJFK]

Well, I really cooled down and it leaves me somewhat empty and disillusioned. I'm starting to see DA2 as something totally different than DA:O - which makes it somehow a good game in it's own way (except for the recycled Maps and such). But it's something I'm just not looking for. It seems so... not fleshed out (The hurry in which it was released shortly after DA:O speaks for itself on that Point).

Gladly there was the Gamescom this year, showing me that I don't have to look out for DA:whatever, I'll just start playing GW2 in 2012. Thank you ncsoft and ArenaNet! ;-)

Modifié par AlfredJFK, 23 août 2011 - 03:10 .

[Kroitz]

I got distance between myself an the franchise. Won´t buy anything DA2 related. Be it an Item-pack, first-aid story DLC, Novels or anything that could support the design decisions as of now with my money.

[MKDAWUSS]

Played through once, "playing" through it again for canon's sake. Basically sitting at the start of Act II and waiting for the main-campaign DLC to come out. I plan on doing 2 for Act II and the rest for Act III.

[Azzlee]

Cooled down? Yes. Still bitterly disappointed? Yes. Buying DA3? No.
Disappointed for all the reasons others have said.