466 réponses à ce sujet

[erynnar]

NicoA wrote...

MingWolf wrote...

I think Bioware/EA really needs to define, internally, what this wider audience is.  DA2 might have attracted some new fans, as they claim, but I am certain that they probably lost a huge chunk of their old fans in the process.  From the customer feedback I've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if they lost more than they gained.  Before, from what I read, I was under the impression that they were shooting for the CoD crowd, where many-a-gamers dwell.  If it were true, then I just have no idea what they were thinking.  I think the FPS crowd would be rather insulted by a half-baked game simplified for them for the purpose of attracting them to the realm of RPGs.  Just a thought. 

+1

Absolutly true. It is (in total) very interesting to see how the gaming industrie is developing. There is less and less gaming time (additionally filled with more and more "movie" sequences) and more focus on visual effects then content. The conditions of games at release time is getting worse and more than once i`ve seen canceling support before the game is actually fully patched. (NOT BW THOUGH) Additonally - DLC systems, questionable online registration + online restaints, activation limitations.... in short - i personally have the feeling to get less and less for my money. 

It would also be interesting to see who in the gaming industrie is actually involved in taking this road. The publisher? The copyright holder? The share holders? The developer? Or is it us - the gamer - espacially since i read/heard somewhere that DA2 is actually the result of player feedback wanting more action. Well, i browsed the DA:O forum too and i could not find thousands of complains about equiping your other team members as an excuse to cut that out or that you have to play in too many different environments...

Hope that wasn't too off-topic now...  

I agree with both of you. I do wonder how many bright new shiny fans they got versus how many of the core fans they had that they lost. Was it enough to make up for it?

@Trifan, I hate the new interface too. I am a lore **** and I didn't read the codexes much in DA2. DAO, I scoured every book, every area for notes, or scrolls or books. Read them all. DA2s lack of details and the boring interface killed that very quickly.

[Ronin2006]

erynnar wrote...

NicoA wrote...

MingWolf wrote...

I think Bioware/EA really needs to define, internally, what this wider audience is.  DA2 might have attracted some new fans, as they claim, but I am certain that they probably lost a huge chunk of their old fans in the process.  From the customer feedback I've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if they lost more than they gained.  Before, from what I read, I was under the impression that they were shooting for the CoD crowd, where many-a-gamers dwell.  If it were true, then I just have no idea what they were thinking.  I think the FPS crowd would be rather insulted by a half-baked game simplified for them for the purpose of attracting them to the realm of RPGs.  Just a thought. 

+1

Absolutly true. It is (in total) very interesting to see how the gaming industrie is developing. There is less and less gaming time (additionally filled with more and more "movie" sequences) and more focus on visual effects then content. The conditions of games at release time is getting worse and more than once i`ve seen canceling support before the game is actually fully patched. (NOT BW THOUGH) Additonally - DLC systems, questionable online registration + online restaints, activation limitations.... in short - i personally have the feeling to get less and less for my money. 

It would also be interesting to see who in the gaming industrie is actually involved in taking this road. The publisher? The copyright holder? The share holders? The developer? Or is it us - the gamer - espacially since i read/heard somewhere that DA2 is actually the result of player feedback wanting more action. Well, i browsed the DA:O forum too and i could not find thousands of complains about equiping your other team members as an excuse to cut that out or that you have to play in too many different environments...

Hope that wasn't too off-topic now...  

I agree with both of you. I do wonder how many bright new shiny fans they got versus how many of the core fans they had that they lost. Was it enough to make up for it?

@Trifan, I hate the new interface too. I am a lore **** and I didn't read the codexes much in DA2. DAO, I scoured every book, every area for notes, or scrolls or books. Read them all. DA2s lack of details and the boring interface killed that very quickly.

Yeah, gotta love the codexes in DAO.  Reading about the lore helps to add to the immersion of being in a living breathing city, and although it probably wouldn't have saved Kirkwall from being dull and lifeless if they added more details (God, even the name Kirkwall is bland and uninspiring), it would have at least helped it a little.

I just think that reading is one of those aspects in the new direction of DA that is seen as "boring" and not "fun" and is being stripped away because Bioware somehow got it in their heads that they can tell better stories without it.

[erynnar]

Ronin2006 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

NicoA wrote...

MingWolf wrote...

I think Bioware/EA really needs to define, internally, what this wider audience is.  DA2 might have attracted some new fans, as they claim, but I am certain that they probably lost a huge chunk of their old fans in the process.  From the customer feedback I've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if they lost more than they gained.  Before, from what I read, I was under the impression that they were shooting for the CoD crowd, where many-a-gamers dwell.  If it were true, then I just have no idea what they were thinking.  I think the FPS crowd would be rather insulted by a half-baked game simplified for them for the purpose of attracting them to the realm of RPGs.  Just a thought. 

+1

Absolutly true. It is (in total) very interesting to see how the gaming industrie is developing. There is less and less gaming time (additionally filled with more and more "movie" sequences) and more focus on visual effects then content. The conditions of games at release time is getting worse and more than once i`ve seen canceling support before the game is actually fully patched. (NOT BW THOUGH) Additonally - DLC systems, questionable online registration + online restaints, activation limitations.... in short - i personally have the feeling to get less and less for my money. 

It would also be interesting to see who in the gaming industrie is actually involved in taking this road. The publisher? The copyright holder? The share holders? The developer? Or is it us - the gamer - espacially since i read/heard somewhere that DA2 is actually the result of player feedback wanting more action. Well, i browsed the DA:O forum too and i could not find thousands of complains about equiping your other team members as an excuse to cut that out or that you have to play in too many different environments...

Hope that wasn't too off-topic now...  

I agree with both of you. I do wonder how many bright new shiny fans they got versus how many of the core fans they had that they lost. Was it enough to make up for it?

@Trifan, I hate the new interface too. I am a lore **** and I didn't read the codexes much in DA2. DAO, I scoured every book, every area for notes, or scrolls or books. Read them all. DA2s lack of details and the boring interface killed that very quickly.

Yeah, gotta love the codexes in DAO.  Reading about the lore helps to add to the immersion of being in a living breathing city, and although it probably wouldn't have saved Kirkwall from being dull and lifeless if they added more details (God, even the name Kirkwall is bland and uninspiring), it would have at least helped it a little.

I just think that reading is one of those aspects in the new direction of DA that is seen as "boring" and not "fun" and is being stripped away because Bioware somehow got it in their heads that they can tell better stories without it.

Which is sad. The Devil is in the details. I never complained on the DAO forums. So I am not familiar with the complaints for the game until I got here and its flaws were brough up by those who love DA2. But I still have never seen the lore and reading as part of the problems DAO had. Maybe I just missed that somewhere?

[Tirfan]

Well, I've seen at least one poster say that he/she would want all the codex-entries removed, which, honestly, would suck, but I wouldn't probably care too much if the interface would be like that of DA2s, It is really weird how much such a relatively small thing can suck the joy out of something I enjoyed really much with better interface.

And btw, Erynnar, Tirfan, not Trifan, takes me back to my WoW-playing days when no one in the guild could apparently learn to say Tirfan and it was always Trifan... perhaps I should change the nick.

[EXiTBeats]

umm... am I the only person who actually liked DA:2, and before i get flamed i prefer Origins, I think some backlash has been harsh but some has been fair, the re-using maps was unimpressive to say the least, and the characters felt a bit shallow apart from Hawke and the only reason he didn't feel shallow was because i was making his decisions, bringing back the old companions is a mst for me...

[Raycer X]

After all this heat died down, I think my biggest issue is that DA2's environment is on the boring side. No changes to Kirkwall (aesthetically) occur in the 7 year time span ... Not even a new building, shack, or tent. The closest thing is that the Qunari leave and the compound is inaccessable. Also:

1. I still think the third act is the most lackluster of the three acts.

2. I find combat a tiny bit more enjoyable if only because the auto attack option (for consoles) is up.

3. The gameplay balances were a bit welcome. No more having to worry too much about overpowered enemy assassins !

4. I still find that being required to bring a certain (healing) abomination with repetitive dialogue subjects to be incredibly annoying .

5. Orsino pulling off blood magic at the very end is a cheap shot (and imo, incredibly lazy and ineffective idea) at making the matter of defending the mages a gray issue. He should have hinted or demonstrated distinct or recognizable signs of considering performing blood magic instead. NO, the letter to Quintin (spelling??) does NOT count.

6. I still don't like Merrill and her blood magic. Nope. Still don't. Never did, never will.

7. Not satisfied at all with the hetero male romances. We have to choose between an STD infested pirate or a "cute" blood mage?? No thanks, my characters can sit this one out.

8. I still find the character dialogue (at least, most of it) to be funny and clever. Although some of their dialogue feels a bit one dimensional, it does show that Bioware can come up with witty and clever lines.

9. It's probably safe to assume that the so called "missing 3 years" will be released as paid DLC. If not, where's the other 30% of the time frame ??

Modifié par Raycer X, 06 juillet 2011 - 08:56 .

[NicoA]

erynnar wrote...

Which is sad. The Devil is in the details. I never complained on the DAO forums. So I am not familiar with the complaints for the game until I got here and its flaws were brough up by those who love DA2. But I still have never seen the lore and reading as part of the problems DAO had. Maybe I just missed that somewhere?

Hei erynnar (as we say in Norway ) and thanks for your comments/contributions on this topic so far!

I believe, the points you mentioned never were a problem, it would have been a problem for the new target audience.  But there are parts in DA2 i'm not even sure about this...

E.g. when i first discovered a "junk" button im my equipment list i just wondered... the first time i got "torn throusers" i still hoped for some long term quest i might pick up, such as the "love letter" quest in DAO. Maybe a dressmaker needs it or whatever...In the end - it really is junk! Well in DAO you had som e.g. silver chalize without real value, but i still took it and it made sense why you find stuff like this in some places since it might have value to others in this environment. It wasn't broken at least and i thought - well better then nothing... Torn throusers? Even the most casual player can not have any interest in a pair of torn throusers! I see that some people might get confused, not being sure if they should sell it or not... but that was the fun part actually... and you can always go back and buy it back anyways. Now i see myself with a backpack full of...well...junk... (actually i quit picking up "junk" after the first act) or these "well, if you had been a different class - that would have been nice" items.

Maybe more interesting: Who came up with that? Was there a brainstorming? Not only for the "junk" feature but also for these items? And did the rest of the team really think that was clever or was something the gamer wants? Is this BW? The company that is not only creating games but actually worlds you get lost in (in a positive way)? I wasn't getting upset by this - all i thought was: Who did they think/hope is gonna play this game? 

They selling it here in Norway to 18+, people that are allowed to drive cars, go to elections and to drink beer here...i think it is quite funny, looking at the game from this perspective...

And that is how i basically got through the game. Wondering. I never was mad, it was my decision to buy and go through with it. I wasn't forced but i had some real motivational problems and stopped quite often on the way (had to agree to new copyright conditions underways) but also some good laughs... the "you gotta be kidding" kind of laughs... BUT as you said earlier: "Once bitten, twice shy"

[erynnar]

Tirfan wrote...

Well, I've seen at least one poster say that he/she would want all the codex-entries removed, which, honestly, would suck, but I wouldn't probably care too much if the interface would be like that of DA2s, It is really weird how much such a relatively small thing can suck the joy out of something I enjoyed really much with better interface.

And btw, Erynnar, Tirfan, not Trifan, takes me back to my WoW-playing days when no one in the guild could apparently learn to say Tirfan and it was always Trifan... perhaps I should change the nick.

DAMMIT! Sorry Tirfan! I actually caught my mistake on a different post to you.    And I played WoW too.  

Okay back to topic. Remove all the codex entries? Seriously? Good lord, someone who doesn't like to read. Why don't they just go play something else that doesn't require it? I certainly hope BioWare doesn't go with that suggestion. I want more not less. Including bringing back the descriptions on items.

[erynnar]

EXiTBeats wrote...

umm... am I the only person who actually liked DA:2, and before i get flamed i prefer Origins, I think some backlash has been harsh but some has been fair, the re-using maps was unimpressive to say the least, and the characters felt a bit shallow apart from Hawke and the only reason he didn't feel shallow was because i was making his decisions, bringing back the old companions is a mst for me...

No, sweetie, you aren't the only one. And you shouldn't get flamed for it either. I am sorry you have. *HUGGLES*

[fightright2]

I was never mad in any way over how DA2 turned out. So I never needed to cool down.
Yes, I admit, at times, I was frustrated during the game but I think mostly I was just disappointed in it.

But even though it wasn't what I expected and certainly it felt lacking to me as being incomplete, as I have stated before on BSN, DA2 did entertain me.

[erynnar]

fightright2 wrote...

I was never mad in any way over how DA2 turned out. So I never needed to cool down.
Yes, I admit, at times, I was frustrated during the game but I think mostly I was just disappointed in it.

But even though it wasn't what I expected and certainly it felt lacking to me as being incomplete, as I have stated before on BSN, DA2 did entertain me.

And entertainment should never be discounted! I too was entertained with my mage.

[_Aine_]

erynnar wrote...

And entertainment should never be discounted! I too was entertained with my mage.

true enough.  I loved my male mage.  My only regret with him is that I didn't play mage first.  (And I am usually rogue all the way.) 

[erynnar]

shantisands wrote...

erynnar wrote...

And entertainment should never be discounted! I too was entertained with my mage.

true enough.  I loved my male mage.  My only regret with him is that I didn't play mage first.  (And I am usually rogue all the way.) 

Same here! I am all about being princess stabbity stabbity kill kill. I played a rogue first, not so entertaining (the waves were soooo annoying and boring). I wished I had played the mage first too.

[John Epler]

erynnar wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

Well, I've seen at least one poster say that he/she would want all the codex-entries removed, which, honestly, would suck, but I wouldn't probably care too much if the interface would be like that of DA2s, It is really weird how much such a relatively small thing can suck the joy out of something I enjoyed really much with better interface.

And btw, Erynnar, Tirfan, not Trifan, takes me back to my WoW-playing days when no one in the guild could apparently learn to say Tirfan and it was always Trifan... perhaps I should change the nick.

DAMMIT! Sorry Tirfan! I actually caught my mistake on a different post to you.    And I played WoW too.  

Okay back to topic. Remove all the codex entries? Seriously? Good lord, someone who doesn't like to read. Why don't they just go play something else that doesn't require it? I certainly hope BioWare doesn't go with that suggestion. I want more not less. Including bringing back the descriptions on items.

I think the argument is not 'remove all the codex entries', but rather 'present as much of the information contained within the codex entries as you can through gameplay'. Codex entries add a lot of flavour, and I remember patting myself on the back when I found bonus content in DA:O simply by looking at the codices (I only did QA for DA:O on the Sacred Ashes plot, so I hadn't seen much more than an overview of the rest of the game by the time I got to play it as a consumer, rather than a developer). But wherever possible, I think we'd like to be giving you as much of that information through gameplay and the world around you rather than simple text infodumps. Of course, that's not to say that getting rid of the codex is in something we want to do - however, the more we can show you rather than tell you through a couple of paragraphs of text, the more alive the world feels (in my opinion).

[TMA LIVE]

JohnEpler wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

Well, I've seen at least one poster say that he/she would want all the codex-entries removed, which, honestly, would suck, but I wouldn't probably care too much if the interface would be like that of DA2s, It is really weird how much such a relatively small thing can suck the joy out of something I enjoyed really much with better interface.

And btw, Erynnar, Tirfan, not Trifan, takes me back to my WoW-playing days when no one in the guild could apparently learn to say Tirfan and it was always Trifan... perhaps I should change the nick.

DAMMIT! Sorry Tirfan! I actually caught my mistake on a different post to you.    And I played WoW too.  

Okay back to topic. Remove all the codex entries? Seriously? Good lord, someone who doesn't like to read. Why don't they just go play something else that doesn't require it? I certainly hope BioWare doesn't go with that suggestion. I want more not less. Including bringing back the descriptions on items.

I think the argument is not 'remove all the codex entries', but rather 'present as much of the information contained within the codex entries as you can through gameplay'. Codex entries add a lot of flavour, and I remember patting myself on the back when I found bonus content in DA:O simply by looking at the codices (I only did QA for DA:O on the Sacred Ashes plot, so I hadn't seen much more than an overview of the rest of the game by the time I got to play it as a consumer, rather than a developer). But wherever possible, I think we'd like to be giving you as much of that information through gameplay and the world around you rather than simple text infodumps. Of course, that's not to say that getting rid of the codex is in something we want to do - however, the more we can show you rather than tell you through a couple of paragraphs of text, the more alive the world feels (in my opinion).

Have you guys ever considered codex entries getting unlocked in an app as you play a game? So you can read them later on your phone while away from your game?

[MarchWaltz]

Over all, DA2 was a fail for me, sorry. To this day I still ME2. I thought DA2 would (like ME2) make me play it over 25 times, however, I only passed twice (during the second play-through about halfway through I forced myself to play).

Anyway, sorry, but yeah. The recycled maps were an insult. Party banter and the dialogue picture thing was cool though. I hope ME3 takes what little good DA2 DID do and use it for ME3.

[erynnar]

JohnEpler wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

Well, I've seen at least one poster say that he/she would want all the codex-entries removed, which, honestly, would suck, but I wouldn't probably care too much if the interface would be like that of DA2s, It is really weird how much such a relatively small thing can suck the joy out of something I enjoyed really much with better interface.

And btw, Erynnar, Tirfan, not Trifan, takes me back to my WoW-playing days when no one in the guild could apparently learn to say Tirfan and it was always Trifan... perhaps I should change the nick.

DAMMIT! Sorry Tirfan! I actually caught my mistake on a different post to you.    And I played WoW too.  

Okay back to topic. Remove all the codex entries? Seriously? Good lord, someone who doesn't like to read. Why don't they just go play something else that doesn't require it? I certainly hope BioWare doesn't go with that suggestion. I want more not less. Including bringing back the descriptions on items.

I think the argument is not 'remove all the codex entries', but rather 'present as much of the information contained within the codex entries as you can through gameplay'. Codex entries add a lot of flavour, and I remember patting myself on the back when I found bonus content in DA:O simply by looking at the codices (I only did QA for DA:O on the Sacred Ashes plot, so I hadn't seen much more than an overview of the rest of the game by the time I got to play it as a consumer, rather than a developer). But wherever possible, I think we'd like to be giving you as much of that information through gameplay and the world around you rather than simple text infodumps. Of course, that's not to say that getting rid of the codex is in something we want to do - however, the more we can show you rather than tell you through a couple of paragraphs of text, the more alive the world feels (in my opinion).

I agree in the show don't tell, but I think DAO hit the sweet spot. I learned about things in game, that were backed up by codex. And some things I learned by reading. I loved finding little hidden treasures everywhere. I miss the details that made the world more alive and the game more fun.

DAO was a big juicy steak, DA2 was a Slim Jim. I enjoy both but one is a little more...meaty?

[Tirfan]

Erynnar: you stole the words from my mouth about DA:O hitting the sweet spot, as for example, you could learn something about the Legion from the book in the shaperate and then get more knowledge about them trough conversation with Kardol. But the Legion is kind of ruined to me because of Jukka, which is the name of one of my uncles, every time I see any Legion-soldiers he pops into my mind, and that takes a lot out of the epicness of the Legion. Don't ever again use finnish names for your characters, pretty please?

TMAlive: not all of us have those fancy-phones, so I can't approve, I still have my trustworthy Nokia 3310, which is something like 11 years old now? still works like a charm though.

[DarthCaine]

I knew it would be crap even before it was released, so I wasn't disappointed

[Redcoat]

erynnar wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

Well, I've seen at least one poster say that he/she would want all the codex-entries removed, which, honestly, would suck, but I wouldn't probably care too much if the interface would be like that of DA2s, It is really weird how much such a relatively small thing can suck the joy out of something I enjoyed really much with better interface.

And btw, Erynnar, Tirfan, not Trifan, takes me back to my WoW-playing days when no one in the guild could apparently learn to say Tirfan and it was always Trifan... perhaps I should change the nick.

DAMMIT! Sorry Tirfan! I actually caught my mistake on a different post to you.    And I played WoW too.  

Okay back to topic. Remove all the codex entries? Seriously? Good lord, someone who doesn't like to read. Why don't they just go play something else that doesn't require it? I certainly hope BioWare doesn't go with that suggestion. I want more not less. Including bringing back the descriptions on items.

I think the argument is not 'remove all the codex entries', but rather 'present as much of the information contained within the codex entries as you can through gameplay'. Codex entries add a lot of flavour, and I remember patting myself on the back when I found bonus content in DA:O simply by looking at the codices (I only did QA for DA:O on the Sacred Ashes plot, so I hadn't seen much more than an overview of the rest of the game by the time I got to play it as a consumer, rather than a developer). But wherever possible, I think we'd like to be giving you as much of that information through gameplay and the world around you rather than simple text infodumps. Of course, that's not to say that getting rid of the codex is in something we want to do - however, the more we can show you rather than tell you through a couple of paragraphs of text, the more alive the world feels (in my opinion).

I agree in the show don't tell, but I think DAO hit the sweet spot. I learned about things in game, that were backed up by codex. And some things I learned by reading. I loved finding little hidden treasures everywhere. I miss the details that made the world more alive and the game more fun.

DAO was a big juicy steak, DA2 was a Slim Jim. I enjoy both but one is a little more...meaty?

I understand why they would want to "show, not tell" in their approach to the Codex, but there's a limit to how much one can really "show" in the game, unless you want to have a party member who's a walking encyclopaedia.

Personally, I loved reading through all manner of obscure passages and forgotten lore in the Codices, but then again I'm probably biased towards that sort of thing. I have an English degree, which I would not have gotten if I didn't enjoy reading obscure things (reading Blind Harry's Wallace in the original Middle Scots, or Beowulf in the original Old English, was a challenge indeed!)

[Beerfish]

DarthCaine wrote...

I knew it would be crap even before it was released, so I wasn't disappointed

More the fool you are for buying it in that case.

I know that hitting my knee with a hammer will hurt.
Whack!
Yup, it hurt!

[Brockololly]

erynnar wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
I think the argument is not 'remove all the codex entries', but rather 'present as much of the information contained within the codex entries as you can through gameplay'. Codex entries add a lot of flavour, and I remember patting myself on the back when I found bonus content in DA:O simply by looking at the codices (I only did QA for DA:O on the Sacred Ashes plot, so I hadn't seen much more than an overview of the rest of the game by the time I got to play it as a consumer, rather than a developer). But wherever possible, I think we'd like to be giving you as much of that information through gameplay and the world around you rather than simple text infodumps. Of course, that's not to say that getting rid of the codex is in something we want to do - however, the more we can show you rather than tell you through a couple of paragraphs of text, the more alive the world feels (in my opinion).

I agree in the show don't tell, but I think DAO hit the sweet spot. I learned about things in game, that were backed up by codex. And some things I learned by reading. I loved finding little hidden treasures everywhere. I miss the details that made the world more alive and the game more fun.

DAO was a big juicy steak, DA2 was a Slim Jim. I enjoy both but one is a little more...meaty?

I'd agree there but to add, I think the codex is a nice supplementary means of fleshing out the world and providing an extra means of building up. The problem with DA2 for instance were things like the codex entries where they existed to explain to you what the companions were doing during the time jumps. If you didn't read those you'd be left in the dark that in some cases, the companion might have gone off and only just returned and so forth. That was a bad use of codex, in providing info that should have been directly provided in the game.

Then again, The Witcher 2's codex was cool in how it was all written by Dandelion. I know many (or all) of DAO's codex entries were written from the POV of certain characters which was nice. Might also be neat if the codex actually looked like a book or tome that animated as you went into it- think the cutscene book in Baldur's Gate. Maybe with a little illustration of the given subject, like The Witcher.\\

I don't think its necessary to get rid of the menus and so forth in RPGs like so many seem intent on doing, but rather make the codex, inventory and so forth more visually interesting.

[erynnar]

NicoA wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Which is sad. The Devil is in the details. I never complained on the DAO forums. So I am not familiar with the complaints for the game until I got here and its flaws were brough up by those who love DA2. But I still have never seen the lore and reading as part of the problems DAO had. Maybe I just missed that somewhere?

Hei erynnar (as we say in Norway ) and thanks for your comments/contributions on this topic so far!

I believe, the points you mentioned never were a problem, it would have been a problem for the new target audience.  But there are parts in DA2 i'm not even sure about this...

E.g. when i first discovered a "junk" button im my equipment list i just wondered... the first time i got "torn throusers" i still hoped for some long term quest i might pick up, such as the "love letter" quest in DAO. Maybe a dressmaker needs it or whatever...In the end - it really is junk! Well in DAO you had som e.g. silver chalize without real value, but i still took it and it made sense why you find stuff like this in some places since it might have value to others in this environment. It wasn't broken at least and i thought - well better then nothing... Torn throusers? Even the most casual player can not have any interest in a pair of torn throusers! I see that some people might get confused, not being sure if they should sell it or not... but that was the fun part actually... and you can always go back and buy it back anyways. Now i see myself with a backpack full of...well...junk... (actually i quit picking up "junk" after the first act) or these "well, if you had been a different class - that would have been nice" items.

Maybe more interesting: Who came up with that? Was there a brainstorming? Not only for the "junk" feature but also for these items? And did the rest of the team really think that was clever or was something the gamer wants? Is this BW? The company that is not only creating games but actually worlds you get lost in (in a positive way)? I wasn't getting upset by this - all i thought was: Who did they think/hope is gonna play this game? 

They selling it here in Norway to 18+, people that are allowed to drive cars, go to elections and to drink beer here...i think it is quite funny, looking at the game from this perspective...

And that is how i basically got through the game. Wondering. I never was mad, it was my decision to buy and go through with it. I wasn't forced but i had some real motivational problems and stopped quite often on the way (had to agree to new copyright conditions underways) but also some good laughs... the "you gotta be kidding" kind of laughs... BUT as you said earlier: "Once bitten, twice shy"

Hei! *Waves*

[Spankoman]

Filament wrote...

I'm still so mad that Anders hit on me.

Ha. Big Gay Anders.

But yeah. Didn't need to cool down. I enjoyed the first playthrough, the second one a bit more, since I felt the characters a bit more. Find a way to make Kirkwall feel bigger and more alive, don't reuse the maps, and help me connect with my companions more, and I'll be happy. I loved the story, loved it. Much more so that Origins, which I also enjoyed.

[erynnar]

Brockololly wrote...

erynnar wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
I think the argument is not 'remove all the codex entries', but rather 'present as much of the information contained within the codex entries as you can through gameplay'. Codex entries add a lot of flavour, and I remember patting myself on the back when I found bonus content in DA:O simply by looking at the codices (I only did QA for DA:O on the Sacred Ashes plot, so I hadn't seen much more than an overview of the rest of the game by the time I got to play it as a consumer, rather than a developer). But wherever possible, I think we'd like to be giving you as much of that information through gameplay and the world around you rather than simple text infodumps. Of course, that's not to say that getting rid of the codex is in something we want to do - however, the more we can show you rather than tell you through a couple of paragraphs of text, the more alive the world feels (in my opinion).

I agree in the show don't tell, but I think DAO hit the sweet spot. I learned about things in game, that were backed up by codex. And some things I learned by reading. I loved finding little hidden treasures everywhere. I miss the details that made the world more alive and the game more fun.

DAO was a big juicy steak, DA2 was a Slim Jim. I enjoy both but one is a little more...meaty?

I'd agree there but to add, I think the codex is a nice supplementary means of fleshing out the world and providing an extra means of building up. The problem with DA2 for instance were things like the codex entries where they existed to explain to you what the companions were doing during the time jumps. If you didn't read those you'd be left in the dark that in some cases, the companion might have gone off and only just returned and so forth. That was a bad use of codex, in providing info that should have been directly provided in the game.

Then again, The Witcher 2's codex was cool in how it was all written by Dandelion. I know many (or all) of DAO's codex entries were written from the POV of certain characters which was nice. Might also be neat if the codex actually looked like a book or tome that animated as you went into it- think the cutscene book in Baldur's Gate. Maybe with a little illustration of the given subject, like The Witcher.

I don't think its necessary to get rid of the menus and so forth in RPGs like so many seem intent on doing, but rather make the codex, inventory and so forth more visually interesting.

Oh yes! I didn't read the codii on the companions my first playthrough. I had no idea that they had done it that way. So I did miss out on a lot of things in regards to that. I also liked the interface much better for the codex on DAO, and found the DA2 one to be annoying and bleh. So I hardly read it at all the 1st time. 2nd I did only for the quests and companions and some interesting things like the enigma of Kirkwall, which I kept hoping to get more insight into, but never did.