466 réponses à ce sujet

[ozenglish]

JohnEpler wrote...

RussianSpy27 wrote...

John, your opinion is duly noted. However, as a fan of DA:O for its literary strength (and a huge fan of David Gaider's novels), I have to say that in my hubmle opinion, codex is brilliant and should not be decreased in any way. As much as I love DG's novels on my kindle, seeing some of the story and DAO lore in written form within the game itself is very important for me. It makes me feel as if I, the role playing hero, am actually picking up that scroll or a book about a part of Fereldan's history and that is a unique experience. 

Moreover, out of all the criticism the development team has recieved from critics and users about DA2, do you really believe that improving DA expansions/sequels includes decreased codex? 

I'm respectfully appauled at how out of all criticism posts, this suggestion actually recieves notable attention and agreement. As if the development team is thinking "hmmm so we got a B for DA2 from the community & critics and A for DA:O...what can we do? OH LOOK this guy feels presenting story in written codex form is weak...bingo!!!!


~RS

I think you're grossly misrepresenting what I said. I feel the Codex is best used when it's giving the player ancilliary information that they might not otherwise have access to - things like flavour, in-character essays, that sort of thing. However, sometimes, we lean on the Codex a little too hard to tell you things that would be stronger if they were shown through the world and through gameplay. I don't feel that's a particular controversial position to take - I'm not saying 'less reading is always better!', but, well, I feel that since this is an interactive medium, wherever possible, let's let you discover things through interactivity. A good example that's been brought up is the Enigma of Kirkwall - as it stands, it's entirely Codex-based. It might have been stronger if we'd shown signs of the Veil being thinner at Kirkwall, and little hints through gameplay and in-engine stuff that says 'hey, here's this important fact about Kirkwall' because, well, it -is- important information.

And contrary to what some think, I'm certainly not opposed to reading. My degree is in English, so a certain love of literature and reading is inherent in that However, I also believe that games have certain strengths and abilities that are unique to the medium that we should, wherever possible, capitalize on. Again, I'm not saying 'no more Codex! Let's take out every bit of reading from the game!', because that's simply not something I feel would be productive. Nor would that decision be in any way made by me, regardless of my personal feelings. What I -am- saying, however, is that we can work on the confluence of gameplay and narrative - the two should work together, rather than existing in almost separate boxes. And part of that is going to be bringing more of the narrative into the game world, whether through ambient events or any of the other tools in our toolbox.

EDIT: Corrected 'showed' to 'shown'. I will now hang my head in shame, as I have dishonoured my ancestors.

Sorry for pyramiding, but this was a good post by both of you, and something I would like to expand on. I am all for reading and literature, don't get me wrong, I read the dictionary twice in primary school and high school, as well as the the thesaurus, just for simple reading pleasure. So I understand the love of linguistics and how people feel that this can be shown as a let down if it somehow gets degraded in anyway.

As an idea with some of the codex entries, I think how as you showed as an example, The Enigma of Kirkwall , personally I think that would have been handle more effectively with an approach similarly used in the beginning of the Wardens Keep, where it showed the veil being thin, and what caused it.

[stoicsentry2]

It has gone from fury to a dull ache, where my heart for Bioware used to be. They aren't the same any more, folks. It's clear the RPG crowd needs to move to higher ground, it's now action-adventure Call of Duty land in Dragon Age.

[LPPrince]

I'm still VERY disappointed in how DA2 turned out in relation to Origins, and have thus decided to not purchase any extra content for DA2(DLC's and such).

First time I've ever done that for a Bioware game.

I tried to play through it a second time a while back, but when I did, I couldn't help but feel like this was a sad attempt at a re-imagining of Origins.

I still praise Origins, but I can only do so much of that for DA2 before I have to go on a tirade of everything that went wrong, which was A LOT.

So mad? No.

But disappointed, saddened, miffed? Yes. Very.

I used to say DA2 was a good game but not a great game.

Now, its harder for me to say its good.

I can only hope that DA3 is effectively Dragon Age: Origins 2.

And if not, its at least made in the same vein as the original that made me love the series.

Art style, character depth, level of detail in levels, etc etc

And if DA3 is more like DA2, then I honestly believe I'm giving up on this franchise.

Mass Effect 1 and 2 didn't let me down even though I disagree with some of the changes for the sequel. Both were amazing games and experiences.

I can't say the same for the change from Origins to 2.

[Montana]

LPPrince wrote...

I'm still VERY disappointed in how DA2 turned out in relation to Origins, and have thus decided to not purchase any extra content for DA2(DLC's and such).

First time I've ever done that for a Bioware game.

I tried to play through it a second time a while back, but when I did, I couldn't help but feel like this was a sad attempt at a re-imagining of Origins.

I still praise Origins, but I can only do so much of that for DA2 before I have to go on a tirade of everything that went wrong, which was A LOT.

So mad? No.

But disappointed, saddened, miffed? Yes. Very.

I used to say DA2 was a good game but not a great game.

Now, its harder for me to say its good.

I can only hope that DA3 is effectively Dragon Age: Origins 2.

And if not, its at least made in the same vein as the original that made me love the series.

Art style, character depth, level of detail in levels, etc etc

And if DA3 is more like DA2, then I honestly believe I'm giving up on this franchise.

Mass Effect 1 and 2 didn't let me down even though I disagree with some of the changes for the sequel. Both were amazing games and experiences.

I can't say the same for the change from Origins to 2.

This pretty much sums up my feelings about DA2.
Saw that a new dlc was announced but I'm not interested in it at all, It can't fix what I think is wrong with DA2.

I do have a tasy preorder for ME3 though. Can't wait.

[LPPrince]

If Bioware had to take another 6 years to make a DAO2, I'd wait.

If Bioware took another 2 years to make DA2....2, I'm out.

[Augoeides]

I only have expectations of dramatic finales that specifically promised content (Mass Effect 3) or Megaten games. I had no major expectations from DA2, except that I would play it and for all its ups and downs (and every game has them, sometimes in different ratios) I would enjoy it. I played DA2 and enjoyed it, didn't finish it, life got busy and also wanted to make a new import from Origins which was complicated by, you guessed it busy life BUT DA2 was fun, I was having fun. I had a hope for Sexy Fenris on MHawke action but its absence wouldn't have ruined things and I didn't 'expect' it.

Seems to me people are so caught up in their idealized fantasies about games that they will only ever be disappointed.

Recycled maps? Who cares, they serve their purpose, they give sufficient atmosphere. Painfully repetitive? Grow a pair.

Exploding bodies? Over the top? Yes. Good for a giggle? Sometimes. Gamebreaking? Hardly.

Lack of the illusion of choice? Sometimes. Absolute lack of choice? Nope. Choices leading to the same outcome in some situations? it's called realism.

Those're the major gripes I get from people and I share some of them in part but they were outweighed by the fact the game wasn't unplayable, it was very playable and enjoyable.

People need to get over their idealism badly. If you think DA2 is unplayable let me snap your disc in half: THAT's unplayable.

[Cody211282]

Augoeides wrote...

I only have expectations of dramatic finales that specifically promised content (Mass Effect 3) or Megaten games. I had no major expectations from DA2, except that I would play it and for all its ups and downs (and every game has them, sometimes in different ratios) I would enjoy it. I played DA2 and enjoyed it, didn't finish it, life got busy and also wanted to make a new import from Origins which was complicated by, you guessed it busy life BUT DA2 was fun, I was having fun. I had a hope for Sexy Fenris on MHawke action but its absence wouldn't have ruined things and I didn't 'expect' it.

Seems to me people are so caught up in their idealized fantasies about games that they will only ever be disappointed.

Recycled maps? Who cares, they serve their purpose, they give sufficient atmosphere. Painfully repetitive? Grow a pair.

Exploding bodies? Over the top? Yes. Good for a giggle? Sometimes. Gamebreaking? Hardly.

Lack of the illusion of choice? Sometimes. Absolute lack of choice? Nope. Choices leading to the same outcome in some situations? it's called realism.

Those're the major gripes I get from people and I share some of them in part but they were outweighed by the fact the game wasn't unplayable, it was very playable and enjoyable.

People need to get over their idealism badly. If you think DA2 is unplayable let me snap your disc in half: THAT's unplayable.

DA2 is in no way unplayable, but when a franchise sets the bar as high as it did with the first game you expect them to at least be able to brush it with their fingers again and not just faceplant like some people felt they did.

[Augoeides]

I didn't think Origins set the bar that high anyway, it had some wonderful stories in its narrative and the whole thing played out like a good old fashioned fantasy with a potential melancholy twist, especially at the end. It didn't however blow me away, I wasn't sitting there thinking "OMVBUDBUJABHDBK THIS IS AWESOME", the experience didn't leave me shaking all over with awesome.

These aren't random projections either, I have played games that have left me in absolute shock because they were that good. Persona 3 left me shaking, had me dreaming about it, was an obsession for me. Critically different game but it was possible to evoke these things from me.

Dragon Age 2 didn't touch the bar, didn't grab hold of it, didn't reach it but didn't fall short either. Dragon Age: origins and 2 are just two different things and neither evoked a 'OMGWTFBBQ' feeling.

[richleroow]

Hmmm I feel pretty good actually. I have accepted that dragon age i dying for me and i don't really care what comes next in later games. I might buy a story dlc that takes place after the main story but as far as i'm conserned the DA universe ended after witch hunt.

[Cyberarmy]

Augoeides wrote...

I didn't think Origins set the bar that high anyway, it had some wonderful stories in its narrative and the whole thing played out like a good old fashioned fantasy with a potential melancholy twist, especially at the end. It didn't however blow me away, I wasn't sitting there thinking "OMVBUDBUJABHDBK THIS IS AWESOME", the experience didn't leave me shaking all over with awesome.

These aren't random projections either, I have played games that have left me in absolute shock because they were that good. Persona 3 left me shaking, had me dreaming about it, was an obsession for me. Critically different game but it was possible to evoke these things from me.

Dragon Age 2 didn't touch the bar, didn't grab hold of it, didn't reach it but didn't fall short either. Dragon Age: origins and 2 are just two different things and neither evoked a 'OMGWTFBBQ' feeling.

Origins didnt set any bar, it only get closer to the bar that BG, PS.Torment, İcewind Dale set for CRPGs.

DA2 while being not a bad game, its not getting any nearer to that bar as Origins.

Edit : İm ashamed for forgetting to mention Fallout 1-2 in my first line .

Modifié par Cyberarmy, 11 juillet 2011 - 09:02 .

[Chromie]

Cyberarmy wrote...Origins didnt set any bar, it only get closer to the bar that BG, PS.Torment, İcewind Dale set for CRPGs.

DA2 while being not a bad game, its not getting any nearer to that bar as Origins.

I feel the same way.

Origins didn't do anything new that wasn't already done. It has a very cliche story, bad politics, black and white decisions and decisions don't really impact the story. It's a good game though. It has some of what we like from old crpgs.

DA2 though took a lot of what we liked and for stupid reasons. No Isometric view because they want us looking at the ceilings of those buildings?

[LPPrince]

Augoeides wrote...

I only have expectations of dramatic finales that specifically promised content (Mass Effect 3) or Megaten games. I had no major expectations from DA2, except that I would play it and for all its ups and downs (and every game has them, sometimes in different ratios) I would enjoy it. I played DA2 and enjoyed it, didn't finish it, life got busy and also wanted to make a new import from Origins which was complicated by, you guessed it busy life BUT DA2 was fun, I was having fun. I had a hope for Sexy Fenris on MHawke action but its absence wouldn't have ruined things and I didn't 'expect' it.

Seems to me people are so caught up in their idealized fantasies about games that they will only ever be disappointed.

Recycled maps? Who cares, they serve their purpose, they give sufficient atmosphere. Painfully repetitive? Grow a pair.

Exploding bodies? Over the top? Yes. Good for a giggle? Sometimes. Gamebreaking? Hardly.

Lack of the illusion of choice? Sometimes. Absolute lack of choice? Nope. Choices leading to the same outcome in some situations? it's called realism.

Those're the major gripes I get from people and I share some of them in part but they were outweighed by the fact the game wasn't unplayable, it was very playable and enjoyable.

People need to get over their idealism badly. If you think DA2 is unplayable let me snap your disc in half: THAT's unplayable.

I'd also quote your post after this one, but I'll just use this one for both comments-

1. Idealized Fantasies- Actually, I'd say expectations, which are perfectly fine to have seeing as we saw the birth of a new franchise and expected more of the same from its sequel.

2. Recycled Maps- I care. A lot of people care. It takes me out of the game when in my first playthrough I know I've seen a place before. Hell, there's the plotline of "Hey, I've been here before" in the blood mage quest line that involves your mother. I wondered why Hawke never says He/She's been there before a THOUSAND OTHER TIMES. When two completely "different" places look exactly the same except for some crudely closed passageways, that screams lame. And yeah, they were painfully repetitive. I'd love for someone to play through the game and count how many times a level/map was repeated, but I can't sit here and want them to go through the hell of trying.

3. Exploding bodies- Agree with you here, although I do wish there was less exploding bodies and more "fall where they stand". For realism purposes. Otherwise it gets ridiculous that every arrow I shoot blows someone up.

4. Lack of illusion of choice- Sometimes, but the illusion IS there. Thing is, our choices mean squat and all lead to the same place.

5. Absolute lack of choice- Read previous response.

6. Choices leading to the same place- Realism? Maybe. But I only want so much realism in my game before it gets annoying. I play Dragon Age for epic stories and branching paths through them, not for a disjointed story that ends up exactly the same no matter what I choose to do. Marketing and what we got was different.

And as for the post you made after the quoted one, I think the issue lies in that.

The original game didn't WOW you. It didn't blow your mind or make you think it was an incredible experience.

A lot of the people with gripes on DA2 were huge DAO fans. The passionate ones. Those who loved it.

DAO was the start of a new franchise. It set the tone, the bar, and what we expect out of the rest of the DA games.

We expected DA2 to be like DAO. Not entirely, as sequels always shift and change a few things around, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. Similarities must be present.

Thing is, DA2 was WAY too different from DAO. They took out a lot of the praised things people loved about DAO and exchanged them for things which weren't nearly as favorable or well received(not in all cases though as some changes were good changes). Thing is, people need to make clear of what those things are.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally, I feel DA2's art style is vastly inferior to DAO's and wish the original's style came back for just about everything(not Qunari, DA2 got that right). But that's just one example.

Point is, if the original game didn't strike a chord for you, you're not going to feel as passionate about the series as say me or any of the others who did.

Understand where people are coming from. I understand where you're coming from, and I respect your opinions. I also hope people understand why you're saying what you're saying.

But just note that there are people who are pissed that these changes happened.

You don't change a series vastly in the second game when the first was ridiculously successful unless there's extreme circumstances that require it.

This might've been better received if it was DA4 or 5, but not 2. This came WAY too soon. And that thought is shared by many, not necessarily yourself or your peers who feel the same way you do(which I'll say again is just fine).

But there you go, that's about all I've got to say for now.

PS- Finish the game when you have the chance. That'll give you a better grasp of the situation, it'll let you talk about the entire game, and then no one can say, "Opinion is invalid because you didn't finish". People do that sometimes.

Modifié par LPPrince, 11 juillet 2011 - 03:24 .

[graavigala85]

 Still have the same feelings, the game itself is ok, but it is far from good, its a nice little piece to play if you dont want to strain your brains with anything... the recycled areas, the too tight corridors, the sloppy story and crappy ending are too huge things to be forgotten on this one.
There is nothing more than a complete re-make that would fix this crapfest of a game

[KennethAFTopp]

JohnEpler wrote...

RussianSpy27 wrote...

John, your opinion is duly noted. However, as a fan of DA:O for its literary strength (and a huge fan of David Gaider's novels), I have to say that in my hubmle opinion, codex is brilliant and should not be decreased in any way. As much as I love DG's novels on my kindle, seeing some of the story and DAO lore in written form within the game itself is very important for me. It makes me feel as if I, the role playing hero, am actually picking up that scroll or a book about a part of Fereldan's history and that is a unique experience. 

Moreover, out of all the criticism the development team has recieved from critics and users about DA2, do you really believe that improving DA expansions/sequels includes decreased codex? 

I'm respectfully appauled at how out of all criticism posts, this suggestion actually recieves notable attention and agreement. As if the development team is thinking "hmmm so we got a B for DA2 from the community & critics and A for DA:O...what can we do? OH LOOK this guy feels presenting story in written codex form is weak...bingo!!!!


~RS

I think you're grossly misrepresenting what I said. I feel the Codex is best used when it's giving the player ancilliary information that they might not otherwise have access to - things like flavour, in-character essays, that sort of thing. However, sometimes, we lean on the Codex a little too hard to tell you things that would be stronger if they were shown through the world and through gameplay. I don't feel that's a particular controversial position to take - I'm not saying 'less reading is always better!', but, well, I feel that since this is an interactive medium, wherever possible, let's let you discover things through interactivity. A good example that's been brought up is the Enigma of Kirkwall - as it stands, it's entirely Codex-based. It might have been stronger if we'd shown signs of the Veil being thinner at Kirkwall, and little hints through gameplay and in-engine stuff that says 'hey, here's this important fact about Kirkwall' because, well, it -is- important information.

And contrary to what some think, I'm certainly not opposed to reading. My degree is in English, so a certain love of literature and reading is inherent in that However, I also believe that games have certain strengths and abilities that are unique to the medium that we should, wherever possible, capitalize on. Again, I'm not saying 'no more Codex! Let's take out every bit of reading from the game!', because that's simply not something I feel would be productive. Nor would that decision be in any way made by me, regardless of my personal feelings. What I -am- saying, however, is that we can work on the confluence of gameplay and narrative - the two should work together, rather than existing in almost separate boxes. And part of that is going to be bringing more of the narrative into the game world, whether through ambient events or any of the other tools in our toolbox.

EDIT: Corrected 'showed' to 'shown'. I will now hang my head in shame, as I have dishonoured my ancestors.

to be honest, the Codex seemed incredibly uninteresting in DAII.

[Medhia Nox]

My opinion of the game remains the same - it's one of the poorer gaming experiences I've had.

But I moved on a long time ago - thankfully there are a ton of games out there.

[jennamarae]

I never really hated DA2, I just hate some of the changes they made and feel indifferent about others. So yeah, I feel the same about it now as I did when it was released. I can still remember the first time I played through DA:O because it made that big of an impression on me, and playing a female character with Alistair there at the end left me sitting in shock. It was completely unexpected and had me literally saying wtf? From that point forward I was hooked. I'm still playing it, and just started a new run through the other day.

With DA2, not so much. The only thing I remember from my first DA2 playthough was thinking "Why the hell is everything the same no matter where I go?" "Who are you people following me about and why can't I talk to you?" and "What the heck kind of moron pulls a stunt like that Anders?" I remember the end of my second run because it was at that point I realized that nothing I did really changed anything despite making complete opposite choices when possible from my first run. I tried to do more runs, but I just couldn't slog through it again. Half-way in I'd quit. Haven't touched the game in two months and don't see myself picking it up again any time soon.

Part of the problem, as I see it, is the complete lack of any focus for much of the game. I spent half the game trying to figure out what on earth my goal was supposed to be, and the other half wanting to toss my monitor when I'd see a mage come on the screen because I knew what was coming next. Never really did figure out what the plot was, unless it was "Mage bad. Qunari bad. Everyone bad!" And I don't mean that as a slight against the writers, I love Gaider's books. He and the rest of the writing team did excellent jobs in DA:O. But DA2 just seemed like a hodge-podge of ten different plot ideas mixed up with a blender and tossed on the page to see what came out. I think if the plot had been more defined and had been able to draw me in like the novels and DA:O did, I'd have liked the game a lot more. With the state of DA2 as it is though, it's always been kinda 'meh' for me.

To be honest, I don't have much hope for the series anymore. Everything that was really good in DA:O has been either removed completely or changed so much as to be unrecognizable. There's no real interaction with the followers. There's no running about to different areas (granted it never was truly exploration for the sake of it but there was always something hidden that you wouldn't find if you went straight from point A to point B in DA:O). There's no strong central theme until Act 3 (yes the theme in DAO was a bit cliched, but I loved it anyway and sometimes a new take on an old cliche turns into something great). There's no way to handle the fights tactically anymore, unless your definition of 'tactical' means "can't see anyone that isn't directly around you, can't zoom out far enough to target anyone that isn't directly around you, and must get whiplash when the camera moves with your rogue". And don't even get me started on their dialogue wheel of fun...

From what I've read from the developers, they like the changes and anyone who doesn't like them can stuff it, so there's no hope of any of those being fixed in any future games. It's their game, they can do what they want. But it does make me a bit sad that a series that started off with so much potential has lost all my interest with the second installment. And wow this post is much longer than I intended..

tl;dr - I feel the same as I always did about it. It's not the worst game ever, but many of the things I liked about DA:O are gone and DA2 simply doesn't measure up for me.

[Shadowbanner]

I've also taken a long break from these forums and feel exactly the same on DA2. Moreover, after having played in the interim other games I feel I was too bland on my criticisms for this game. Definitely no DLC for me.

[erynnar]

jennamarae wrote...

I never really hated DA2, I just hate some of the changes they made and feel indifferent about others. So yeah, I feel the same about it now as I did when it was released. I can still remember the first time I played through DA:O because it made that big of an impression on me, and playing a female character with Alistair there at the end left me sitting in shock. It was completely unexpected and had me literally saying wtf? From that point forward I was hooked. I'm still playing it, and just started a new run through the other day.

With DA2, not so much. The only thing I remember from my first DA2 playthough was thinking "Why the hell is everything the same no matter where I go?" "Who are you people following me about and why can't I talk to you?" and "What the heck kind of moron pulls a stunt like that Anders?" I remember the end of my second run because it was at that point I realized that nothing I did really changed anything despite making complete opposite choices when possible from my first run. I tried to do more runs, but I just couldn't slog through it again. Half-way in I'd quit. Haven't touched the game in two months and don't see myself picking it up again any time soon.

Part of the problem, as I see it, is the complete lack of any focus for much of the game. I spent half the game trying to figure out what on earth my goal was supposed to be, and the other half wanting to toss my monitor when I'd see a mage come on the screen because I knew what was coming next. Never really did figure out what the plot was, unless it was "Mage bad. Qunari bad. Everyone bad!" And I don't mean that as a slight against the writers, I love Gaider's books. He and the rest of the writing team did excellent jobs in DA:O. But DA2 just seemed like a hodge-podge of ten different plot ideas mixed up with a blender and tossed on the page to see what came out. I think if the plot had been more defined and had been able to draw me in like the novels and DA:O did, I'd have liked the game a lot more. With the state of DA2 as it is though, it's always been kinda 'meh' for me.

To be honest, I don't have much hope for the series anymore. Everything that was really good in DA:O has been either removed completely or changed so much as to be unrecognizable. There's no real interaction with the followers. There's no running about to different areas (granted it never was truly exploration for the sake of it but there was always something hidden that you wouldn't find if you went straight from point A to point B in DA:O). There's no strong central theme until Act 3 (yes the theme in DAO was a bit cliched, but I loved it anyway and sometimes a new take on an old cliche turns into something great). There's no way to handle the fights tactically anymore, unless your definition of 'tactical' means "can't see anyone that isn't directly around you, can't zoom out far enough to target anyone that isn't directly around you, and must get whiplash when the camera moves with your rogue". And don't even get me started on their dialogue wheel of fun...

From what I've read from the developers, they like the changes and anyone who doesn't like them can stuff it, so there's no hope of any of those being fixed in any future games. It's their game, they can do what they want. But it does make me a bit sad that a series that started off with so much potential has lost all my interest with the second installment. And wow this post is much longer than I intended..

tl;dr - I feel the same as I always did about it. It's not the worst game ever, but many of the things I liked about DA:O are gone and DA2 simply doesn't measure up for me.

Very well said. And sums up how I felt about  it for the most part ( I confess to my guilty pleasure in the mage and rogue animations--I love martial arts--they were just a little too fast).  I still hold out hope. I will wait to see what others say about the DLC.

[Augoeides]

@LPPrince:

Some fair points there and obviously I have different concerns in some areas to other plays. I'll likely make a return to this thread at some and offer a more comprehensive and enlightened (by playtime) assessment. See y'all then. Tatty-byes!

[Phaedros]

They killed my favourite game.. still!

[Saintthanksgiving]

sometimes I wake up in a cold sweat... screaming.... and crying.... those are the nights I dream of DA2.

My only hope is that some day the dreams stop... and I can find acceptance.

[erynnar]

LPPrince wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

I only have expectations of dramatic finales that specifically promised content (Mass Effect 3) or Megaten games. I had no major expectations from DA2, except that I would play it and for all its ups and downs (and every game has them, sometimes in different ratios) I would enjoy it. I played DA2 and enjoyed it, didn't finish it, life got busy and also wanted to make a new import from Origins which was complicated by, you guessed it busy life BUT DA2 was fun, I was having fun. I had a hope for Sexy Fenris on MHawke action but its absence wouldn't have ruined things and I didn't 'expect' it.

Seems to me people are so caught up in their idealized fantasies about games that they will only ever be disappointed.

Recycled maps? Who cares, they serve their purpose, they give sufficient atmosphere. Painfully repetitive? Grow a pair.

Exploding bodies? Over the top? Yes. Good for a giggle? Sometimes. Gamebreaking? Hardly.

Lack of the illusion of choice? Sometimes. Absolute lack of choice? Nope. Choices leading to the same outcome in some situations? it's called realism.

Those're the major gripes I get from people and I share some of them in part but they were outweighed by the fact the game wasn't unplayable, it was very playable and enjoyable.

People need to get over their idealism badly. If you think DA2 is unplayable let me snap your disc in half: THAT's unplayable.

I'd also quote your post after this one, but I'll just use this one for both comments-

1. Idealized Fantasies- Actually, I'd say expectations, which are perfectly fine to have seeing as we saw the birth of a new franchise and expected more of the same from its sequel.

2. Recycled Maps- I care. A lot of people care. It takes me out of the game when in my first playthrough I know I've seen a place before. Hell, there's the plotline of "Hey, I've been here before" in the blood mage quest line that involves your mother. I wondered why Hawke never says He/She's been there before a THOUSAND OTHER TIMES. When two completely "different" places look exactly the same except for some crudely closed passageways, that screams lame. And yeah, they were painfully repetitive. I'd love for someone to play through the game and count how many times a level/map was repeated, but I can't sit here and want them to go through the hell of trying.

3. Exploding bodies- Agree with you here, although I do wish there was less exploding bodies and more "fall where they stand". For realism purposes. Otherwise it gets ridiculous that every arrow I shoot blows someone up.

4. Lack of illusion of choice- Sometimes, but the illusion IS there. Thing is, our choices mean squat and all lead to the same place.

5. Absolute lack of choice- Read previous response.

6. Choices leading to the same place- Realism? Maybe. But I only want so much realism in my game before it gets annoying. I play Dragon Age for epic stories and branching paths through them, not for a disjointed story that ends up exactly the same no matter what I choose to do. Marketing and what we got was different.

And as for the post you made after the quoted one, I think the issue lies in that.

The original game didn't WOW you. It didn't blow your mind or make you think it was an incredible experience.

A lot of the people with gripes on DA2 were huge DAO fans. The passionate ones. Those who loved it.

DAO was the start of a new franchise. It set the tone, the bar, and what we expect out of the rest of the DA games.

We expected DA2 to be like DAO. Not entirely, as sequels always shift and change a few things around, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. Similarities must be present.

Thing is, DA2 was WAY too different from DAO. They took out a lot of the praised things people loved about DAO and exchanged them for things which weren't nearly as favorable or well received(not in all cases though as some changes were good changes). Thing is, people need to make clear of what those things are.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally, I feel DA2's art style is vastly inferior to DAO's and wish the original's style came back for just about everything(not Qunari, DA2 got that right). But that's just one example.

Point is, if the original game didn't strike a chord for you, you're not going to feel as passionate about the series as say me or any of the others who did.

Understand where people are coming from. I understand where you're coming from, and I respect your opinions. I also hope people understand why you're saying what you're saying.

But just note that there are people who are pissed that these changes happened.

You don't change a series vastly in the second game when the first was ridiculously successful unless there's extreme circumstances that require it.

This might've been better received if it was DA4 or 5, but not 2. This came WAY too soon. And that thought is shared by many, not necessarily yourself or your peers who feel the same way you do(which I'll say again is just fine).

But there you go, that's about all I've got to say for now.

PS- Finish the game when you have the chance. That'll give you a better grasp of the situation, it'll let you talk about the entire game, and then no one can say, "Opinion is invalid because you didn't finish". People do that sometimes.

QFT, LLPrince you are one magnificent bastard. Seriously, your posts are a joy to read.

[stewie1974]

Aside from the recycled dungeons..... ((lets face it bioware, showing people the same map over and over and over dosn't inspire people to replay them, can we agree that recycling the maps wasn't inovative or revolutionary and agree it was laaaaaahzeh)) I like the game...

Aside from the reuse of maps... everything else... well it's a matter of opinion.