150 réponses à ce sujet

[HogarthHughes 3]

I don't hate them, and I understand their lack of faith in Shepard. What I don't like, about the Alliance or the Council, is that they've failed to discover the Reapers and be proactive about it. Its a sad day in the Mass Effect universe when the only group with the means to prepare for and knowledge of the Reapers is a xenophobic human supremacist organization led by a megalomaniac. The evidence is in more than one place, why didn't the Council or at least the Alliance ever find the derelict Reaper? Cerberus has money, but they still don't have nearly the resources of either the Council or the Alliance. The one Alliance project that acknowledges the Reaper threat (Object Rho) is so highly classified that most if not all of Alliance command (aside from Hackett and Anderson) still don't believe Shepard.

To me, the precedence for incompetence and sloth on part of BOTH the Alliance and the Council is more dangerous to innocent lives than TIMs ruthlessness, xenophobia, and ambition could ever be. Of course Cerberus then decides to side with the reapers come ME3 :/. Interesting turn of events, the one faction powerful enough to do something about the Reapers that actually knows they exist ends up joining them. Makes me think of what that Volus on the Citadel says if you kill his two Krogan guards: "Why do I even bother?"

Ah well it'll all work out in ME3 one way or another, just my 2 cents on the OPs question.

[Repearized Miranda]

 What is with the "hate" threads? UGH!!

Seriously, the Council are proudly arrogant and can't see the forest for the trees. I don't take issue with them individually, but the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Kind of like well them + the Alliance whom both despise Cerberus. I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

[Medhia Nox]

@HogarthHughes 3: But the Council does appoint Specters... gives them vast resources and immunity to do whatever the hell they please.

The Council DID find the Reapers (through Shepard) - the misunderstanding would be Shepards perception of what the Council ought to do afterward. The Council says: "Solve the problem."

This is like going to any vastly powerful group in fiction and asking them to magic away the problems.

If you want Shepard to matter at all - the story has to revolve around him/her solving the issue.

[HogarthHughes 3]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@HogarthHughes 3: But the Council does appoint Specters... gives them vast resources and immunity to do whatever the hell they please.

The Council DID find the Reapers (through Shepard) - the misunderstanding would be Shepards perception of what the Council ought to do afterward. The Council says: "Solve the problem."

This is like going to any vastly powerful group in fiction and asking them to magic away the problems.

If you want Shepard to matter at all - the story has to revolve around him/her solving the issue.

Vast resources?  The Alliance gave Shepard his ship and the staff on it, not the Council.  Unless you're referring to a different Spectre maybe, Saren had quite a few resources built up but I thought that was due more to financial success over the years rather than the Councils doing.  True they do give Spectres quite a bit of freedom, but that isn't enough when it comes to a whole fleet of mecha-cthulhu robot ships coming to wipe out all sentient life.  I wouldn't expect that they "Solve the problem" of the Reapers with a magic wand.  The best they can really do is prepare, but it doesn't seem like they even know (or want to know for that matter) they exist.  Shepard could still be the ridiculously effective killing machine hero of the day with the Council and/or the Alliance taking action against the Reapers and/or their servants. (kinda like what Cerberus does before and during ME2)

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 03 juillet 2011 - 05:10 .

[Raiil]

I dislike the Council because I dislike politicians in general. And yes, I do feel Shepard has earned a little trust in the matter. I'm not mad that they didn't fall to their knees slathering Shepard in praise and taking everything as WoG. I am mad that there appears to have been little to no investigation, and after Shepard was right, repeatedly, they don't take the time to try verifying a trusted agent's claims.

That being said, I like the asari councilor. She seems reasonable.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I don't hate them I have alot of respect for them even though they don't listen to me. They are the four most powerful people in the galaxy every decision they make will affect millions if not billions of lives. The fact they don't believe in the Reapers based on shotty evidence isn't suprising to me and I don't blame them for not wanting to tell the galaxy "ZOMG giant evil warships are coming to eat us!!."

In ME1 they were more than happy to appologise to Shepard when they found out they were wrong and allowed Shepard to decide who the first human council member was going to be that's pretty good for politicians. Once they see the Reapers they will admit they are wrong and give Shepard the support he needs and that's all I care about and all I can ask them to do. Sure I'm going to make fun of the Turian councilor but once I do the 'Ah, yes Reapers." thing to him I'll be more than happy to save them and rally the galaxy.


I am a Paragon Shepard!!!

[Saberchic]

ladyvader wrote...
To have issues with the Council, you must also have issue with the Alliance.  Neither of them believe Shepard. 

Sorry, didn't see this post. The forum has been a bit wonky lately (at least on my end).

Actually, I do have some issues with the Alliance.

Some of my Shepards can understand and are still very much pro-Alliance though they are frustrated. My other Sheps are disillusioned with the Alliance but will work with them if they are going to take on the reaper threat.

I love Hackett, but he made me nervous with his comment in Arrival. I think we might have lost his support. He won't look at the report and he didn't want to see Shep in person after Shep's actions. It made me think he's trying to distance himself. Therefore, I thought his "I know you did the right thing" speech was just lip service.

[ladyvader]

bleetman wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

Their actions have shown me that they are too complacent. They would rather stick their heads in the sand than face reality. This shows me they are looking out for themselves instead of the for the good of the galaxy.

Which, incidentally, isn't just something they do regarding the Reapers. It's seemingly their default.

Human colonies are under attack? Don't bother looking into it.
Saren's gone rogue? Don't bother looking into it.
Human colonies are under attack again? Don't bother looking into it.

I'm sensing a pattern here.

I suggest you click on Emily Wong's News while on the Citadel.  The Council will not get involved in what they view is a strictly human matter.  Not the Saren issue, but the colony issue.  Being part of the Council means that humanity is able to take care of their own problems.  Anderson agrees.  Anderson is the Counciler in my game.  Also, the colonies that are getting hit in ME2 are in the Terminus Systems and the Council  has no authority there.  

About Saren.  Why would they believe Shepard over their top Spectre?  Once Shepard got info on him, the Council removed his Spectre status.  What more do you expect from them?  To believe something that is a vison in Shepard's head.  Can't prove that unless Liara does a meld with each member of the Council or the asari Councilor does it.  Again, what do you expect the Council to do?


 A few here are not taking into account that humanity is considered a bully by many species.  That does not help any.  The turian is annoying and I want to throw those air quotes of his back in his face by saying, "Ah, yes, Reapers, I just defeated them."  Air quotes and all.

Even the Alliance is burying everything Shepard did/said.  They are not ready.  Hackett says that. 

[S.A.K]

Nodscouter wrote...

I'm a fan of the council actually.

Fan of the council?

[ladyvader]

Saberchic wrote...

ladyvader wrote...
To have issues with the Council, you must also have issue with the Alliance.  Neither of them believe Shepard. 

Sorry, didn't see this post. The forum has been a bit wonky lately (at least on my end).

Actually, I do have some issues with the Alliance.

Some of my Shepards can understand and are still very much pro-Alliance though they are frustrated. My other Sheps are disillusioned with the Alliance but will work with them if they are going to take on the reaper threat.

I love Hackett, but he made me nervous with his comment in Arrival. I think we might have lost his support. He won't look at the report and he didn't want to see Shep in person after Shep's actions. It made me think he's trying to distance himself. Therefore, I thought his "I know you did the right thing" speech was just lip service.

If Hackett didn't want to see Shepard in person why was the debrief in the med bay.  He gave back the data pad, but that doesn't mean Shepard can't give that to the Alliance during the trial/hearing/whatever they want to call it.

Like you, I have many Shepards and they are all different.  All of them saved the Council, because Shepard knows that humanity needs to get along with other species.  Humanity can not do it alone, which is what TIM wants and none of my Shepards(imports anyway) gave him the collector base.  My ME2 default Shepard did, but that is because I wanted to see how that was going to work.  Now it starting to seem that will bite Shepard in the behind.

[bleetman]

ladyvader wrote...

I suggest you click on Emily Wong's News while on the Citadel.  The Council will not get involved in what they view is a strictly human matter.

Meaning that because only humans are being hit, they're going to sit on their hands and do squat about it, yes. As Udina says in the first game, "the council would step in if the Geth attacked a Turian colony!"

I happen to agree with that sentiment. It's a 'human problem'? What the bloody heck does that mean, anyway? They can either claim to be the head of a galatic organisation borne of racial co-operation, or they can drag their feet when one of the races they impose their control over runs into problems. They can't do both.

ladyvader wrote...

About Saren.  Why would they believe Shepard over their top Spectre?

They shouldn't. They didn't. But they did launch an entirely fruitless, pointless investigation organised by C-sec, who don't have access to anything remotely connected to Saren or what he's been up to since becoming a spectre, and put it on a hilariously short time limit. Garrus hadn't even finished his investigation before they demanded his report, and then dismissed it because "C-sec turned up no evidence". Gee, what a shocker.

Modifié par bleetman, 03 juillet 2011 - 07:15 .

[BatmanPWNS]

I don't hate them I think they are very reasonable and Shepard really doesn't have much evidence to prove anything about the Reapers.

Beside the developer need us to hate on somebody for everything that happens to Shepard.

[ladyvader]

bleetman wrote...

ladyvader wrote...

I suggest you click on Emily Wong's News while on the Citadel.  The Council will not get involved in what they view is a strictly human matter.

Meaning that because only humans are being hit, they're going to sit on their hands and do squat about it, yes. As Udina says in the first game, "the council would step in if the Geth attacked a Turian colony!"

I happen to agree with that sentiment. It's a 'human problem'? What the bloody heck does that mean, anyway? They can either claim to be the head of a galatic organisation borne of racial co-operation, or they can drag their feet when one of the races they impose their control over runs into problems. They can't do both.

The turians wouldn't run to the Council for help.  They would take care of their own business.  They seem to like to bomb everything(comment from Erinya in ME2).  I might have to replay that scene, but I don't remember any of the Council members saying they would step in.  Like I said, listen to Emily Wong's news reports on the Citadel.  The comment was Council member species need to be able to handle their own problems.  The human councilor agrees, but asks for more resourses.  

[bleetman]

ladyvader wrote...

The turians wouldn't run to the Council for help.  They would take care of their own business.  They seem to like to bomb everything(comment from Erinya in ME2).  I might have to replay that scene, but I don't remember any of the Council members saying they would step in.  Like I said, listen to Emily Wong's news reports on the Citadel.  The comment was Council member species need to be able to handle their own problems.  The human councilor agrees, but asks for more resourses.  

Of course they would. They're the ones who have the majority of the fleets. They're actually in a position to help themselves.

Again, this is a council composed of three races who represent an entire galaxy, and invoke legal and military regulation of every last one of them. They quite literally restrict how many military ships a species is allowed, and where they can settle colonies. They don't get to ignore matters when one of them starts running into problems, or tell them to 'handle it themselves'. You don't tie someone's hands then throw them to the wolves.

Modifié par bleetman, 03 juillet 2011 - 07:17 .

[ladyvader]

bleetman wrote...

ladyvader wrote...

The turians wouldn't run to the Council for help.  They would take care of their own business.  They seem to like to bomb everything(comment from Erinya in ME2).  I might have to replay that scene, but I don't remember any of the Council members saying they would step in.  Like I said, listen to Emily Wong's news reports on the Citadel.  The comment was Council member species need to be able to handle their own problems.  The human councilor agrees, but asks for more resourses.  

Of course they would. They're the ones who have the majority of the fleets. They're actually in a position to help themselves.

Again, this is a council composed of three races who represent an entire galaxy, and invoke legal and military regulation of every last one of them. They quite literally restrict how many military ships a species is allowed, and where they can settle colonies. They don't get to ignore matters when one of them starts running into problems, or tell them to 'handle it themselves'. You don't get to tie someone's hands then throw them to the wolves.

That, I am afraid is done all the time.  That politics for you.  Either deal with that concept or not.  But that is a simple fact.

[Iakus]

I was indifferent to the Council right up until "Ah, yes, 'Reapers'"

[bleetman]

ladyvader wrote...

That, I am afraid is done all the time.  That politics for you.  Either deal with that concept or not.  But that is a simple fact.

Uh, quite. Oddly enough, the fact that it happens is not a valid argument in its own defense. Unless I'm not allowed to strongly dislike something for operating the way it does, simply because it operates the way it does and I should just get over it, in which case I honestly just don't know how I'm meant to respond to that.

Modifié par bleetman, 03 juillet 2011 - 07:25 .

[seirhart]

I do not hate the alien council, as a matter of fact out of everyone else shepard trusts the council far more than any others. He is willing to overlook the council's ignorance and save them in the end.

On the issue of trust this is how me and my shepard's see it

1.) Alien Council and the 3 races that go with it
2.) Anderson
3.) Quarians
4.) Geth
5.) Admiral Hackett

[Siansonea]

Because people have problems with authority, and don't like being told what to do. And the Council doesn't fall all over themselves telling you—I mean Shepard—how awesome you are—er, how awesome Shepard is. So naturally they suck!!!!!<_<

Modifié par Siansonea II, 03 juillet 2011 - 07:28 .

[Zjarcal]

Eh, the Council is useless. You could bring them up to chat with Sovereign or Harbinger and they would go "oh, that's no Reaper, stop being silly Shepard".

Letting them die was an absolute blast.

[Blitzkrieg0811]

Because even the Asari councilor is unable to grasp reality concerning the Reaper threat. Forgeting for just a moment that they were personally violated by Sovereign (a Reaper vanguard who obviously wasn't just a Geth flagship), they also refused to believe any of the proof Shepard has found on his missions.