597 réponses à ce sujet

[vanslyke85]

Majin Paul wrote...

They should give the option to see her unmasked, if she is a possible romance and you decide to romance her, maybe that's how you see her face, if you don't romance her, you don't see her face.

Exactly.  I may be wrong but I'm sure most of the people who chose her as an LI would like to see her face. 

[Jebel Krong]

Sylvianus wrote...
Exactly, it's Bioware to decide, not us. You finally understood.

* epic facepalm *

And you begin to be boring. Read. I do not care Tali, by cons the quarians are clearly a part of the background and if you're not smart enough to understand how it can be rewarding and interesting to learn more about them ( apprearance etc,  ), sorry for you.

Re-read everything , if you're unable to think yourself about that .

Tali  I am for to show her face however, it is not necessarily a requirement. Do you see the difference ? Do you see the subtlety? Can you understand or I must explain everything to you again ?

Everything, leads that Tali finally take the next step with her face. Due to the developement in M2, I say, show it. But I don't really care, but I understand all those who want.

evidently it is you who needs comprehension lessons, because you appear to have contradicted yourself. again. 

finding out about a species does not necessarily include seeing their faces, especially given the significant difficulties provided by aspects of their biology, surely that's easy enough for you to understand and has been evident for the last 2 games in the way BW have portrayed them.

[Sylvianus]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
Exactly, it's Bioware to decide, not us. You finally understood.

* epic facepalm *

And you begin to be boring. Read. I do not care Tali, by cons the quarians are clearly a part of the background and if you're not smart enough to understand how it can be rewarding and interesting to learn more about them ( apprearance etc,  ), sorry for you.

Re-read everything , if you're unable to think yourself about that .

Tali  I am for to show her face however, it is not necessarily a requirement. Do you see the difference ? Do you see the subtlety? Can you understand or I must explain everything to you again ?

Everything, leads that Tali finally take the next step with her face. Due to the developement in M2, I say, show it. But I don't really care, but I understand all those who want.

evidently it is you who needs comprehension lessons, because you appear to have contradicted yourself. again. 

finding out about a species does not necessarily include seeing their faces, especially given the significant difficulties provided by aspects of their biology, surely that's easy enough for you to understand and has been evident for the last 2 games in the way BW have portrayed them.

HAHAHAHA !

You're stupid, bro', really. . Where I contradict myself ?

I read your quotes, I see no contradiction.

When I say that everything leads Tali,to reveals her face, it is simply  a logic, not a will, a justification that lead to think she might reveal her face. A solid reason. I do not see how it is a requirement. I want because there is some logic behind. That's all.

If Tali is not shown, I do not care stupid boy, do you understand these words, I will not say : " BIOWARE Mass effect 3 will be ruined, I do want . "

And it is so obvious that we learn nothing about quarians that Bioware has thought to show them. yes indeed.

* Ironic. *

I think you speak for anything, you do not say anything interesting and desperate, you seek any point of  futile attack, without anything constructive to say on the subject.

You just tickle the other, no, keep your stupidity for you.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:05 .

[conrad winkles]

I would say this. Don't show Talis face becuase they might screw it up in some way and make Tali fans cry like crazy. Instead, show us what Quarians look like. Such as maybe a dead Quarian without a suit or something. It's just safer that way.

[xentar]

OK, a couple of thoughts.

1) About "Show generic quarians but not Tali". This is probably mostly suggested by people who don't care that much about Tali or those who do but want a compromise. Problem is, it won't exactly work for those who do care.
Since her appearance is so linked to the generic quarian appearance, people who don't want to see her face are unlikely to be able to hold on to their imaginations without some significant modifications necessary to maintain the racial integrity, and thus would be almost as disappointed as they would be if her own face is revealed.
As for those who do want her face to be revealed (especially people who romanced her and had their Shepards see her face), there is no particular reason not to show it. So, it would feel as a "meh..." semi-compromise at best.

2)If people at Bioware are really adamant about making what quarians look like a personal preference, they might as well go for the "Build you own quarian" face generator. Ridiculous as it is in both the very idea and cost of implementation, this would ultimately set this notion in stone and technically wouldn't disappoint either group since the "masked" option should be the easiest one to implement. Then, even if they come up with something in the future it would not be anything more than just another implementation.

As for me, I would prefer to have generic quarians shown to everyone and Tali to those who romanced her, as soon as possible (perhaps, even before ME3 is released), no prereqisites necessary (all of those have been met a long time ago).

Modifié par xentar, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:30 .

[XavierHollywood]

I tend to lean towards not showing it myself. The added mystery is quite nice.

Maybe for some dramatic effect tho (and to meet a sort of middle ground between those who do and dont want to see it), how about during a critical mission there is a point where your squad is taking a severe beating and Tali's face plate is actually cracked, or half of it gets blown off. That way you get a tease of what she looks like, enough to probably assume what the rest looks like, but without them having to directly show her face in its entirety.

[Jebel Krong]

Sylvianus wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Tali  I am for to show her face however, it is not necessarily a requirement. 

Everything, leads that Tali finally take the next step with her face. 

HAHAHAHA !

You're stupid, bro', really. . Where I contradict myself ?

I read your quotes, I see no contradiction.

quoted (bolded) again, for the hard of reading. seriously i've gone easy because i get that english ain't your first language, but really. 

[Beerfish]

xentar wrote...

OK, a couple of thoughts.

1) About "Show generic quarians but not Tali". This is probably mostly suggested by people who don't care that much about Tali or those who do but want a compromise. Problem is, it won't exactly work for those who do care.
Since her appearance is so linked to the generic quarian appearance, people who don't want to see her face are unlikely to be able to hold on to their imaginations without some significant modifications necessary to maintain the racial integrity, and thus would be almost as disappointed as they would be if her own face is revealed.
As for those who do want her face to be revealed (especially people who romanced her and had their Shepards see her face), there is no particular reason not to show it. So, it would feel as a "meh..." semi-compromise at best.

Not really correct.  As a person that does care about Tali I still see the option of not showing her face because there is a 100% certainty that if her face is shown half the people that like Tali will go beserk about how bad she looks while the other half will be happy about how she looks and there will be the tons of trolling types that will blast her looks just because whe is a popular character. 
Her face being linked to the generic quarian appearance will be no more of a problem than if you showed any human face.  With the generic face people can get an idea of what her face style might look like but still be able to substitute their own ideas of exactly how she looks.

Hey, I have no problem with her face being revealed but it is guaranteed that half the people will hate it.

[billybobjones]

just show her face.

the recent facebook poll, which 22,000 people voted in, shows that an overwhelming percentage of people want to see her face. so if they DON'T show it, the will ****** off as many people would be disappointed by what her face looks like.

I don't understand why this is difficult for Bioware.They shouldn't try to think about what the fans "want" her face to look like, they should just create her face based on what makes sense in-universe and go from there.

and I hate the "everyone has their own picture of her in their head" argument. I don't. I literally have no conception about what her face looks like. Her face is her helmet to me until I am shown otherwise.

[billybobjones]

sorry, double post

Modifié par Metroidbum, 08 juillet 2011 - 03:05 .

[Satsuma]

Let me translate for you, Jebel.

"I am for Tali showing her face, although it is not literally a requirement. However, everything from a writing standpoint with the various plotlines unfolding in Mass Effect 3 would allow for her to have an actual emotional moment where she could reveal her face to you. It's still not required, but it would make as much, if not more sense then hiding it. I am not contradicting myself."

I added the "I'm not contradicting myself" part for you, to really make it obvious.

As for why "everything, leads that Tali finally take the next step" here's some of my guesses:

-It being the climax of the Trilogy,

-the culmination of her relationship with Shepard in the final game,

-the fact that other mysteries like even that of the Reapers being resolved,

-the fact that there are a statistical majority of players that WANT to see her face at the same time when Bioware prides itself on listening to what its' fans would like to see in its' games,

-the fact that the plot of the War between the Quarians and the Geth will come to a close here, which is tied directly to the fact that Quarians need to wear suits in the first place

-that there is a distinct possibility the Quarians will be returning to Rannoch and thus removing the need for their suits by the time Mass Effect 4 is being made.

-that the "mystery" of the Quarians is in-and-of-itself disliked by those like myself simply because it is only an enigma from the perspective of the player, and not for that of the rest of the Mass Effect universe, (and especially even the Main Character that is supposed to be our avatar in the case of a Tali romanced Shepard.)

I'm just saying, it douldn't feel like a simple 50/50 choice to me for if they decided to hide Tali and the other Quarian's faces (and in-general appearance) altogether. When you weigh the pros and cons, I feel like the balance is tipped greatly in favor of a reveal when the greatest advantage to keeping the enigma is that... we still will be able to fantasize about Tali looking however we want her to look.

I'm a Talimancer, but I'm also a big boy. I don't need a personal fantasy Tali to like the character. I feel that my little brain won't strain under the pressure of whatever crushing reality Tali's face would present to me.

Mostly, I believe that the advantages of revealing the Quarians now will allow for great story-telling opportunities in the future as Bioware pushes it's world and its' timeline beyond the war with the Reapers in future entries.

Quarians can still be written as needing suits even if we've seen what they look like.

Quarians can NEVER be written as not-needing suits in-game if we never, ever see what they look like. If the race is to have a shot at the future and the regrowth of their people, a reveal is an inevitability. Why not do it now, with a character we (most of us, anyway...) have come to know and love, at the culmination of her story-arc? Where the reveal would really have an impact on us?

Modifié par Satsuma, 08 juillet 2011 - 03:16 .

[xentar]

must have accidentally pressed "quote" instead of "edit"...

Modifié par xentar, 08 juillet 2011 - 03:25 .

[xentar]

Beerfish wrote...

Not really correct.  As a person that does care about Tali I still see the option of not showing her face because there is a 100% certainty that if her face is shown half the people that like Tali will go beserk about how bad she looks while the other half will be happy about how she looks and there will be the tons of trolling types that will blast her looks just because whe is a popular character. 
Her face being linked to the generic quarian appearance will be no more of a problem than if you showed any human face.  With the generic face people can get an idea of what her face style might look like but still be able to substitute their own ideas of exactly how she looks.

Hey, I have no problem with her face being revealed but it is guaranteed that half the people will hate it.

Well, showing generic quarians would "ruin the mystery" and thus disappoint a hefty share of those who don't want to see her. As for the comparison with human faces, it's indeed valid and I had thought about it before posting... and came to the (inevitably subjective) conclusion that after "the mystery is ruined" the reason for not showing her face becomes kinda obsolete and hiding it seems like a feeble recovery attempt.

Also, keep in mind that your average human face is not unattractive.

Modifié par xentar, 08 juillet 2011 - 03:16 .

[Jebel Krong]

[quote]Satsuma wrote...

Let me translate for you, Jebel.

"I am for Tali showing her face, although it is not literally a requirement. However, everything from a writing standpoint with the various plotlines unfolding in Mass Effect 3 would allow for her to have an actual emotional moment where she could reveal her face to you. It's still not required, but it would make as much, if not more sense then hiding it. I am not contradicting myself."[/quote]

already covered in ME2, and they didn't need to actually show her face to do it...

[quote]Satsuma wrote...
I added the "I'm not contradicting myself" part for you, to really make it obvious.

As for why "everything, leads that Tali finally take the next step" here's some of my guesses:

-It being the climax of the Trilogy, [/quote]

so?
[quote]Satsuma wrote...
-the culmination of her relationship with Shepard in the final game, [/quote]
again, 'culminated' already = uncompelling argument for...

[quote]Satsuma wrote...
-the fact that other mysteries like even that of the Reapers being resolved, [/quote]

and that has to do with Tali's face because...?

[quote]Satsuma wrote...
-the fact that there are a statistical majority of players that WANT to see her face at the same time when Bioware prides itself on listening to what its' fans would like to see in its' games, [/quote]

i'd love to see your data on that - the large majority of people who played the game probably don't give a fig about Tali, let alone her face. 'fans' here =/= general audience, and BW has done quite enough 'fanservice' already in this series.

[quote]Satsuma wrote...
-the fact that the plot of the War between the Quarians and the Geth will come to a close here, which is tied directly to the fact that Quarians need to wear suits in the first place[/quote]

i'm not seeing the reason for showing her face again?

[quote]Satsuma wrote...
-that there is a distinct possibility the Quarians will be returning to Rannoch and thus removing the need for their suits by the time Mass Effect 4 is being made.[/quote]

then it would be logical to show said faces at that time, no?

[quote]Satsuma wrote...
-that the "mystery" of the Quarians is in-and-of-itself disliked by those like myself simply because it is only an enigma from the perspective of the player, and not for that of the rest of the Mass Effect universe, (and especially even the Main Character that is supposed to be our avatar in the case of a Tali romanced Shepard.)[/quote]

not really - seeing a quarian without a suit must go back generation upon generation - certainly it is unlikely any human except shepard has seen one. even so, linking that to a perceived audience desire is tenuous at best - again just as many people (including chris priestly) would rather they remain a mystery, at least for now. plenty of other species to see!

[quote]Satsuma wrote...
I'm just saying, it douldn't feel like a simple 50/50 choice to me for if they decided to hide Tali and the other Quarian's faces (and in-general appearance) altogether. When you weigh the pros and cons, I feel like the balance is tipped greatly in favor of a reveal when the greatest advantage to keeping the enigma is that... we still will be able to fantasize about Tali looking however we want her to look.[/quote]

now we're down to personal opinion again, which is no more valid or justification for than anyone else's against.

[quote]Satsuma wrote...
I'm a Talimancer, but I'm also a big boy. I don't need a personal fantasy Tali to like the character. I feel that my little brain won't strain under the pressure of whatever crushing reality Tali's face would present to me. [/quote]

maybe you won't but there are many who will when it doesn't live up to their personal expectations.

[quote]Satsuma wrote...
Mostly, I believe that the advantages of revealing the Quarians now will allow for great story-telling opportunities in the future as Bioware pushes it's world and its' timeline beyond the war with the Reapers in future entries.[/quote]

how? quarians are not the centre of the galaxy, their greatest impact is actually another race: the geth. the conflict between the two is of great interest, but that hardly applies to their physoical appearance outside the suits.

[quote]Satsuma wrote...
Quarians can still be written as needing suits even if we've seen what they look like.[/quote]

so?

[quote]Satsuma wrote...
Quarians can NEVER be written as not-needing suits in-game if we never, ever see what they look like. If the race is to have a shot at the future and the regrowth of their people, a reveal it is an inevitability. Why not do it now, with a character we (most of us, anyway...) have come to know and love, at the culmination of her story-arc? Where the reveal would really have an impact on us?
[/quote]

how so? tali already stated that generations would pass on rannoch (or another planet) before they could build up enough immunity to remove the suits permanently, even then they would likely be suited in pretty much all other environments for generations more. an sequel set in the future could be set after this time, without difficulty.

[xentar]

Jebel Krong wrote...

i'm not seeing the reason for showing her face again?

Let's put it this way: there are multiple reasons to show her face (discussed previously many times) and only one reason not to...

[snowfox522]

xentar wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

i'm not seeing the reason for showing her face again?

Let's put it this way: there are multiple reasons to show her face (discussed previously many times) and only one reason not to...

Yes this^^

[hotdogbsg]

xentar wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

i'm not seeing the reason for showing her face again?

Let's put it this way: there are multiple reasons to show her face (discussed previously many times) and only one reason not to...

Damn, what a simple yet it more or less sums all this up.

Nice one

[Valcutio]

Make her cute and people will be happy. I'm in favor of seeing her face.

[Satsuma]

[quote]Jebel Krong wrote...


already covered in ME2, and they didn't need to actually show her face to do it...

[/quote]

And that was a failure. Yes, they didn't need to- but they should have.

[quote]Jebel Krong wrote...

so?

[/quote]

Well, there won't be any more opportunities to reveal Tali after the end of the trilogy. It'd be now or never...

[quote]Jebel Krong wrote...

again, 'culminated' already = uncompelling argument for...

[/quote]

They fell short of revealing Tali in her romance last game. We're arguing about opinions here, but for me that was not a good thing. If they, as Casey Hudson has said, intend to bring a fitting conclusion to all of the romances for returning players, that would need to include a face-reveal for me.

[quote]and that has to do with Tali's face because...?[/quote]

If Tali's face being a mystery isn't relevant, then they should reveal her face. If Tali's face being a mystery IS relevant, then why at the end of this trilogy as they show us the answers to many relevant mysters building up over the past games, would they not resolve this one? Again, the only pro for hiding Tali is preserving the personal fantasies for over-sensitive fans, because normal fans will not freak out or be pissed off at Tali's face... they might have their own image up her to that point but it will not incite anger to see what she really looks like. There's nothing wrong with having your own image of Tali, but being rather protective of it in the face of everything else is... well, wierd.


[quote] 

i'd love to see your data on that - the large majority of people who played the game probably don't give a fig about Tali, let alone her face. 'fans' here =/= general audience, and BW has done quite enough 'fanservice' already in this series. [/quote]

Fans not just here, but also on Deviant-Art, Facebook, Twitter responses to Biofeed, Kotaku and 1up communities... you see the same trend everywhere you ask around.

[quote]

i'm not seeing the reason for showing her face again?

[/quote]

Well the reason in this case would be Tali revealing what she (and other Quarians) looks like would be symbolic of the Quarians transcending the need for their suits in the future, not necessarily from a storyline perspective but definitely a player/developer related one, because they will have then committed to the possibility of portraying them without suits in the future.

Otherwise, one way or another Bioware will have to continue to skirt the issue and keep the Quarians in their suits indefinitely. This is prohibitive to the freedom of the writers, to take the race in new directions aside from what we've seen now.

[quote]

then it would be logical to show said faces at that time, no?

[/quote]

I mean that the event of the Quarians retaking Rannoch will occur and be resolved DURING Mass Effect 3. Post Mass Effect 3, the process could already be underway and FINISHED by the time the next Mass Effect entry happens. I see the ME verse moving forward in leaps and bounds closer of centuries after this, and not 1 year later when the galactic community is in a state of reconstruction and also unity still present due to the Reaper conflict. Then we could begin seeing the long-term effects of our decisions about the various inter-reactions and cultures of these alien races, and not just the short term.

[quote]

not really - seeing a quarian without a suit must go back generation upon generation - certainly it is unlikely any human except shepard has seen one. even so, linking that to a perceived audience desire is tenuous at best - again just as many people (including chris priestly) would rather they remain a mystery, at least for now. plenty of other species to see! 

[/quote]

[quote] Cerberus Daily News wrote...

9/02/2010 "Spectacle Abounds at the Galactic Video Music Awards"

The Galactic Video Music Awards kicked off tonight with dazzling numbers from Eff Tee El, Bootyherax, and Blue Giants. In what will undoubtedly be called the entrance of the year, Eff donned a cowboy hat and reinforced codpiece to ride a low-powered biotic singularity onstage. As for the awards, Best New Artist went to Domino Masque, Best Choreography went to Skinsuit's "Mix It," and the coveted Video of the Year went to Varrencage for their anthem "Let It Up, Let It Out." A moment of silence for deceased singer Lady Sweat preceded her band's performance of "Where You Gone?" with the soulful vocals provided by VI-vian Wonder. [/color]But the most memorable antic of the night was dubbed the "Quarian Kiss": Lita'Orn nar Idenna stripped off her mask when she won Best VI-Directed Video and gave presenter Illesa T'Nasty a big wet kiss. Lita's representatives say she is expected to make a full recovery.”
[/quote]
No, it's not impossible in the modern day to see Quarians without their suits. Grunt definitely seems to know what they look like, too. It's not common knowledge to everyday humans, I suppose I could give you that- but it's certainly not a mystery and a damn shame to treat it like one for those of us that are interested, and I'm certainly more invested in learning more about the Quarians then any new race Bioware could introduce more in ME3, even the Raloi, the "Beings of Light" that the volus discovered records of, or the Yahg.

[quote]

now we're down to personal opinion again, which is no more valid or justification for than anyone else's against.

[/quote]

Yeah, there's definitely strong opinions here strewn throughout both side's arguements- I'd chalk that up to Bioware having great writers and fans that love to hate each other.

[quote]

maybe you won't but there are many who will when it doesn't live up to their personal expectations.

[/quote]

That's some nice hypocrisy. Maybe it's also hypocritical of myself to say this, but where are you getting your statistics on "many." How do you know that "many" will have severe enough reactions to toe around for Bioware to toe around this issue as they have? How do you know that many won't instead be pleasantly surprised? Or how many will be "indifferent" because most players "don't care one way or another about Tali" so it won't be that bad anyway?

[quote]
how? quarians are not the centre of the galaxy, their greatest impact is actually another race: the geth. the conflict between the two is of great interest, but that hardly applies to their physoical appearance outside the suits. [/quote]

Well, you have to connect in-game story to out-of-game reasons for the story. The reason we dont' know what Quarians look like is because of the suits. But then, in-game the reason the Quarians wear suits is because of their exile from their own planet by the Geth, and their inability to reconcile their differences with them.

It could therefore be symbolic of the Quarians and the Geth resolving their differences if their co-existence lead to a way in which the Quarians could live without suits, such as being allowed their homeworld back peacefully or what-have-you. By extension,  the  current enigma of the Quarians themselves is in my opinion rooted deep within the whole story of the conflit between the two.

[quote]so?[/quote]

It shows that Bioware can still write the Quarians as gradually losing their suits as you detail in the next quote even if they show them. It would not be a hindering factor to their storytelling.

[quote]

how so? tali already stated that generations would pass on rannoch (or another planet) before they could build up enough immunity to remove the suits permanently, even then they would likely be suited in pretty much all other environments for generations more. an sequel set in the future could be set after this time, without difficulty.

[/quote]

That would be putting the reveal of they mystery off to a later date. This is not just a possibility, but an inevitability if they fail to reveal the Quarians in ME3. It WILL happen, even if it doesn't have to be now- it can be down the road. This is totally correct.

It would also be a completely missed opportunity by Bioware to make an emotional impact on it's fanbase as we know they love to. Bioware is always looking for ways to make the fans feel strongly about the storylines they're witnessing, and to reveal what Quarians look like in some other game rather than now, when we're emotionally invested in Tali herself would be, like I said, an awfully missed opportunity. Although Bioware could just as easily build us up for an emotional reveal of another Quarian in a future trilogy of games, I'm sure.

My point is not that Bioware MUST reveal Tali. It's just that I think they should, that I hope they do, and that these are just some of the reasons I could quickly brain-storm up for the thread.

Modifié par Satsuma, 08 juillet 2011 - 04:12 .

[IamSithari]

Make her look like a female unmaked darth vader salamder and call it f-ing day.

[IamSithari]

As long as the design team follow a dextro DNA evolutionary route when making her id be for it as long she matches with her home planets modeling for creating its life forms then go it.

[ChuckNorris18]

She's kind of... Dead..... in my canon play through.

[streamlock]

I'm of the opinion that they just don't unmask her at this point. Just my 2 cents.