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[DWH1982]

HTTP 404 wrote...

  what if 50,000 years had passed and the reapers appear and there is still no one on the Citadel?

.

The Reapers always leave at least one of their own in the galaxy to monitor events, remember?  That's why Soverign was still in the Milky Way.

Soverign's mission was likely to monitor the state of the galaxy, and report back to the rest of the Reapers as to whether or not the galaxy is really in a state ready for invasion every 50,000 years. If the 50,000 years mark is reached and there aren't any major space faring civs, Soverign (or whoever has "scouting" duty this time) probably just reports back not to bother with it.

Also, on the Asari life span - I don't understand why everyone always assumes that Asari always lived for 1000 years.

Human beings can live up to 150 years in the Mass Effect uinverse.  Did humans always live up to 150?  No... they can make it that far only because of advanced technology.

I suspect that Asari didn't live to 1000 in their pre-space flight era.  At one point, when they had very primative tech, they probably lived significantly less than 1000 years.

[HawkerFury]

ill leave one comment on this I HATE HUSSKS! and i HATED the dead reaper the only good thing was that there was no twin lazer shilded bugger, or was there?

[Tommy6860]

sbvera13 wrote...

It's plausible to me if you include the non-spacefaring life that the Reapers jsut ignore. For every advanced civ, there may be 100 or 100,000 proto-civs on an unexplored planet somewhere. So a new species doesn't have to develop every 50k years, they just have to go from stone age to space age in 50k years.  Who knows... maybe in a million years Pyjaks will be the top race

That doesn't fit ME canon though. According to the last annihilation, the Protheans were the only advanced race and they were spread acrossed the entire galaxy; that's a huge expansion on any stretch of the imagination. Yet, 50K years later, we have a dozen or so very advanced civs colonizing and living throghout the galaxy. Using the Prothean example, no species is going to develop fast enough to make that kind of galactic permeation, unless we include suspending the unbelievable. It's safe to say the Reaper race sets up viable star systems with relays (ala placing the Charon Relay near Pluto that led to Arcturus' relays) on the predication that a future lifeform within said system will eventualy evolve and advance to their needs. Your claim about civs existing while not as adavnced can be very plausible, but not the timelines to develop.

[Homey C-Dawg]

HTTP 404 wrote...

it always bothers me that it was every 50,000 years. For eternal living machines, thats a short time imo.

Me too actually. I've always thought Bioware should have made it more like a million years between cycles.

[DWH1982]

Tommy6860 wrote...

sbvera13 wrote...

It's plausible to me if you include the non-spacefaring life that the Reapers jsut ignore. For every advanced civ, there may be 100 or 100,000 proto-civs on an unexplored planet somewhere. So a new species doesn't have to develop every 50k years, they just have to go from stone age to space age in 50k years.  Who knows... maybe in a million years Pyjaks will be the top race

That doesn't fit ME canon though. According to the last annihilation, the Protheans were the only advanced race and they were spread acrossed the entire galaxy; that's a huge expansion on any stretch of the imagination. Yet, 50K years later, we have a dozen or so very advanced civs colonizing and living throghout the galaxy. Using the Prothean example, no species is going to develop fast enough to make that kind of galactic permeation, unless we include suspending the unbelievable. It's safe to say the Reaper race sets up viable star systems with relays (ala placing the Charon Relay near Pluto that led to Arcturus' relays) on the predication that a future lifeform within said system will eventualy evolve and advance to their needs. Your claim about civs existing while not as adavnced can be very plausible, but not the timelines to develop.

So, the Reapers set up new relays every time they invade?

Wouldn't that conflict with the whole CDN articles on the findings that the mass relay systems are older then the Protheans? You know - the articles that tied in with Arrival?

[marshalleck]

DWH1982 wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

sbvera13 wrote...

It's plausible to me if you include the non-spacefaring life that the Reapers jsut ignore. For every advanced civ, there may be 100 or 100,000 proto-civs on an unexplored planet somewhere. So a new species doesn't have to develop every 50k years, they just have to go from stone age to space age in 50k years.  Who knows... maybe in a million years Pyjaks will be the top race

That doesn't fit ME canon though. According to the last annihilation, the Protheans were the only advanced race and they were spread acrossed the entire galaxy; that's a huge expansion on any stretch of the imagination. Yet, 50K years later, we have a dozen or so very advanced civs colonizing and living throghout the galaxy. Using the Prothean example, no species is going to develop fast enough to make that kind of galactic permeation, unless we include suspending the unbelievable. It's safe to say the Reaper race sets up viable star systems with relays (ala placing the Charon Relay near Pluto that led to Arcturus' relays) on the predication that a future lifeform within said system will eventualy evolve and advance to their needs. Your claim about civs existing while not as adavnced can be very plausible, but not the timelines to develop.

So, the Reapers set up new relays every time they invade?

Wouldn't that conflict with the whole CDN articles on the findings that the mass relay systems are older then the Protheans? You know - the articles that tied in with Arrival?

How would it? Building a new relay in some random star system doesn't make all the other pre-existing relays suddenly new again. Just like in a city, you can have buildings that are 5 years old right next to a building that is 100.

I don't know how you could even begin to ask this sort of question.

[HTTP 404]

DWH1982 wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

  what if 50,000 years had passed and the reapers appear and there is still no one on the Citadel?

.

The Reapers always leave at least one of their own in the galaxy to monitor events, remember?  That's why Soverign was still in the Milky Way.

Soverign's mission was likely to monitor the state of the galaxy, and report back to the rest of the Reapers as to whether or not the galaxy is really in a state ready for invasion every 50,000 years. If the 50,000 years mark is reached and there aren't any major space faring civs, Soverign (or whoever has "scouting" duty this time) probably just reports back not to bother with it.

Also, on the Asari life span - I don't understand why everyone always assumes that Asari always lived for 1000 years.

Human beings can live up to 150 years in the Mass Effect uinverse.  Did humans always live up to 150?  No... they can make it that far only because of advanced technology.

I suspect that Asari didn't live to 1000 in their pre-space flight era.  At one point, when they had very primative tech, they probably lived significantly less than 1000 years.

the sovereign part sounds true to me.  Which makes it possible for the reapers to possibly skip a cycle.

the asari on the other hand, even with medical tech its a 1000 years!  thats over 6 times the length of the human 150.  even when you cut it down to 650 years that would still make a species that take longer to evolve to get to that state due to longetivity of lifespan.  Mutations/evolution occurs faster in species with shorter lifespan/greater reporductive rates.  It would take the Asari over 10000 years to improve on their evolution as 1500 years for humans.

[Blacklash93]

Bluko wrote...

The real question is: Why did the Reapers leave one of their dead lying around?

Seems like a bad way to tip people off about your existence, which the Reapers try very hard to avoid doing.

Given how thorough the Reapers are described to be when it comes to wiping all trace of their existance off the map, it's especially implausible that they would just leave one of thier own out in the open to find. It's uncharacteristically lazy of them. 

The Reapers wouldn't want any possibility of their technology falling into the hands of the civilization they're supposed to harvest. Which is exactly what Shepard did to gain access to the collector base (with the IFF).

[sbvera13]

Given the -ahem- astronomical odds involved in any scenario, the idea that jsut this once, only 1 race made it to spacefaring status in a cycle is not that far fetched. Also (and this is my preferred theory) the protheans my just be total jerks and killed everyone else in their way. We don't know enough about them, it's entirely possible and would make a great twist after having been revered for so long.

[DWH1982]

marshalleck wrote...

How would it? Building a new relay in some random star system doesn't make all the other pre-existing relays suddenly new again. Just like in a city, you can have buildings that are 5 years old right next to a building that is 100.

I don't know how you could even begin to ask this sort of question.

Interesting. If you go back and read the first CDN article on the age of the Mass relays (from Jan 24th, 2011) the wording would seem to confirm that maybe the Reapers place new Mass relays every time they roll through

CDN wrote...

Historians and astronomers alike are abuzz tonight over a new paper published by Dr. Amanda Kenson of the University of Arcturus. Her team claims that by testing the dust trapped in the gravity wells around a mass relay, and comparing its composition to that of dust clouds in the same system, scientists can create a timeline of when the relay passed through the dust. Her conclusion? “Only a small fraction of the mass effect relays date back 50,000 years,” she writes, “The majority are far older, indicating they were created by a species predating even the Protheans.”

Thus, the implication would seem to be that there are a small number of mass relays that DO, in fact, date back to the Protheans - or perhaps the last Reaper invasion.

[Tommy6860]

DWH1982 wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

sbvera13 wrote...

It's plausible to me if you include the non-spacefaring life that the Reapers jsut ignore. For every advanced civ, there may be 100 or 100,000 proto-civs on an unexplored planet somewhere. So a new species doesn't have to develop every 50k years, they just have to go from stone age to space age in 50k years.  Who knows... maybe in a million years Pyjaks will be the top race

That doesn't fit ME canon though. According to the last annihilation, the Protheans were the only advanced race and they were spread acrossed the entire galaxy; that's a huge expansion on any stretch of the imagination. Yet, 50K years later, we have a dozen or so very advanced civs colonizing and living throghout the galaxy. Using the Prothean example, no species is going to develop fast enough to make that kind of galactic permeation, unless we include suspending the unbelievable. It's safe to say the Reaper race sets up viable star systems with relays (ala placing the Charon Relay near Pluto that led to Arcturus' relays) on the predication that a future lifeform within said system will eventualy evolve and advance to their needs. Your claim about civs existing while not as adavnced can be very plausible, but not the timelines to develop.

So, the Reapers set up new relays every time they invade?

Wouldn't that conflict with the whole CDN articles on the findings that the mass relay systems are older then the Protheans? You know - the articles that tied in with Arrival?

No, I did not say that, only that they may (note, it is conjecture on my part using logic) set them up when they see the possibility of a civ developing along the lines to their needs. Think of the human (Alliance) discovery of Reaper technology on Mars. Keep in mind, they (the Reapers) do build the relays leaving them for discovery. It is canon that the relays, the Citadel, are older than any civilization that can be recorded by any advanced species, obviously, outside of the Reapers, as was posited by Liara when she stated these mass extinction happened many times before the one that wiped out the Protheans; Vigil even confirms this.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 04 juillet 2011 - 05:02 .

[DWH1982]

The Mars tech was Prothean, not Reaper. Unless I missed sometihng, that much seems fairly certain - the game even seems to indicate that the Protheans studied humans.

I thin the rest of this theory, that the Reapers could be setting up relays in systems that seem to promise the development of intelligent life, to be plausable and interesting.

[marshalleck]

The Mars base is Prothean, yes. It had data files stored in Prothean languages concerning the monitoring and study of early humans on Earth. Presumably the origin of the files was confirmed via comparison to other Prothean relics once humanity became introduced to the galactic community at large, all of whom have their own Prothean discoveries littered about.

[HTTP 404]

DWH1982 wrote...

The Mars tech was Prothean, not Reaper. Unless I missed sometihng, that much seems fairly certain - the game even seems to indicate that the Protheans studied humans.

I thin the rest of this theory, that the Reapers could be setting up relays in systems that seem to promise the development of intelligent life, to be plausable and interesting.

you also have to remember, that before me1, every old tech was called prothean even if it was reaper.  I know the protheans studied the humans on earth but I think the tech was planted by the reapers on mars to put humans on track with the other races and with reaper plans.

[Tommy6860]

DWH1982 wrote...

The Mars tech was Prothean, not Reaper. Unless I missed sometihng, that much seems fairly certain - the game even seems to indicate that the Protheans studied humans.

I thin the rest of this theory, that the Reapers could be setting up relays in systems that seem to promise the development of intelligent life, to be plausable and interesting.

No, it was not Prothean, it was only understood (assumed) as such through contemporary archaeology, since the Protheans were the only known advanced species that could be somewhat studied, even then, Prothean artifacts were rare.. The beacons and some other tech stuff were their inventions though, but not the Mass Relay technology that helped the Alliance expand outside our its own star system. Everything the Protheans made based their technolgy on that of the Reapers, as did the civs before them.

Youtube it. Listen to Sovereign on Virmire then Listen to Vigil on Ilos. The technology was planted so that civs would advance along the lines the Reapers wanted them to advance.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 04 juillet 2011 - 05:40 .

[LTiberious]

sbvera13 wrote...

"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space." -THHGTG, Douglas Adams.

Really, it's not that big a stretch to imagine that 740 civ's missed it. After all, the odds of finding it at all are (get ready for it)... astronomical.

Grav anomalies should have lured someone

[sbvera13]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Youtube it. Listen to Sovereign on Virmire then Listen to Vigil on Ilos. The technology was planted so that civs would advance along the lines the Reapers wanted them to advance.

Regarding the relays and the citadel, yes, Sovereign directly addressed those two.  I think the ruins on Mars were actually Prothean though, considering the "vision" you get from a Prothean relic on Eletenia about a Prothean survey team studying Cro-Magnon roughly 50k years ago.  It pretty much explicity states that Mars was a research base to observe Earth.

Not to say the Reapers didn't seed technology cache's everywhere... it's quite likely they would.  But Mars in particular is identified in-game as being Prothean.

[Sgt Stryker]

LTiberious wrote...

sbvera13 wrote...

"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space." -THHGTG, Douglas Adams.

Really, it's not that big a stretch to imagine that 740 civ's missed it. After all, the odds of finding it at all are (get ready for it)... astronomical.

Grav anomalies should have lured someone

What "grav anomalies"? Is there anything in ME lore that says that Reapers cause unusual gravitational effects around themselves? I don't recall anything of the sort in the Codex or anywhere else in the games.

[LTiberious]

Okay, lets go this way.

Spaceship in the future - is something like a expensive car. (lets say futuristic lamborghini)
There are trillions of folk in the galaxy.
There are billions of "cars" in the galaxy.
In every civ there should be lots of people interested in exploring galaxies. For profits.

Grav anomalies can be caused by EEzo...So someone is looking for eezo and finds a "OMGWTF BIG SHIP THINGY".

Thats the thing.

[Di-Hydrogen-Monoxide]

What I have never understood is this belief that the Reapers "reap" every 50,000 years. The game says that the Reapers destroy civilisations at the peak of their existence. This peak could come at any time.

Yes, the Protheans were destroyed 50,000 years ago but there is nothing to say that they weren't the first civilisation to evolve for say a million years.

[Balek-Vriege]

HTTP 404 wrote...

it always bothers me that it was every 50,000 years. For eternal living machines, thats a short time imo.

look at long living Species like the Asari who live to be 1000 years old. how long does it take for species that live that long to evolve? The math for this biology does not add up. The asari had to have been in advanced age closer to our 2011 civilaztion during the last reaper invasion. Perhaps the reapers passed them by? I refuse to believe they developed space faring and colonized half the galaxy in two Asari Generations

also another point was that the Citadel wasn't found until 48,000 years or so after the protheans?  what if 50,000 years had passed and the reapers appear and there is still no one on the Citadel?

so yah, the math makes me question the realism of the lore. but I try not to think about it.

It's possible they were passed by.  Human's would have been passed by as well, if the Rachni invasion marked the time just after Sovereign tried to activate the Citadel Relay (around 1CE/AD).  If the Protheans hadn't messed with Keeper DNA, Humans may have came across an empty galaxy.  Although it's likely in that situation the Turians may have just evaded the Reapers (or they would have made First Contact with them...bad move), making them the de facto rulers of the universe for a time.

Di-Hydrogen-Monoxide wrote...

What I have never understood is this belief that the Reapers "reap" every 50,000 years. The game says that the Reapers destroy civilisations at the peak of their existence. This peak could come at any time.

Yes, the Protheans were destroyed 50,000 years ago but there is nothing to say that they weren't the first civilisation to evolve for say a million years.

I agree.  Realistically it could be 50, 000 years, 500, 000 years, 5 million years, 5000 years or even 500 years.  What happens when you reap a galaxy, return to dark space and another race pops up and starts building a Galactic Civilation like 50 years after?  What happens when Civilizations destroys themselves or just fail to make the element zero leap for a long time?  The only way this makes sense is if the Reapers actually check all their unexplored relays and wipe of any civilations which are too close to Galactic travel for that time.  I could also see them "planting" technology via Sovereign to help races along.

Edit:

LTiberious wrote...

Okay, lets go this way.

Spaceship in the future - is something like a expensive car. (lets say futuristic lamborghini)
There are trillions of folk in the galaxy.
There are billions of "cars" in the galaxy.
In every civ there should be lots of people interested in exploring galaxies. For profits.

Grav anomalies can be caused by EEzo...So someone is looking for eezo and finds a "OMGWTF BIG SHIP THINGY".

Thats the thing.

Very plausible, but I think the brown dwarf was in a system far from the relay and someone would have to travel through Deep Space to get there.  That's a long ways to go looking for an anomaly, near a very inhospitable Brown Dwarf just for some Eezo.  The only reason TIM found it was because he calculated the Reaper's trajectory and the Brown Dwarf was a long the path.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 05 juillet 2011 - 02:08 .

[Siansonea]

740 Reaper Cycles ≠ 740 Galactic Civilizations.

Just because the Reapers show up like clockwork, doesn't mean that there is ALWAYS a galactic civilization to Reap. Not everyone is going to find the Citadel. Many species probably nuke themselves into oblivion before even venturing very far offworld (this may well be real-world humanity's fate, after all). And just because it was 50,000 years since the LAST Reaping, doesn't mean that it has ALWAYS been that length of time between cycles.