325 réponses à ce sujet

[GodWood]

Ainmarh wrote...

InviolateNK wrote...
Inclusion of the kid who died in the gameplay demo for E3 was already over the top

I take it you consider the Dead Island trailer an outrageous scandal then?

That trailer was probably the greatest videogame trailer I have ever seen.

Whoever hasn't seen it go watch it now.

[TheKillerAngel]

DO THE WORDS POLITICAL SHITSTORM MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU?

[Ainmarh]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

Ainmarh wrote...

InviolateNK wrote...

Inclusion of the kid who died in the gameplay demo for E3 was already over the top

I take it you consider the Dead Island trailer an outrageous scandal then?

But that trailer was serious about the loss of that family. It was effective, it worked. That kid in the vent thing was pointless and trite.

I'd argue that showing the kid dying was a very accurate way of portraying the casualties of war. I mean, the adults are never the only ones being killed.

GodWood wrote...

That trailer was probably the greatest videogame trailer I have ever seen.

And for this, Sire, you rock.

Modifié par Ainmarh, 04 juillet 2011 - 10:49 .

[Vengeful Nature]

Ainmarh wrote...

Vengeful Nature wrote...

Ainmarh wrote...

InviolateNK wrote...

Inclusion of the kid who died in the gameplay demo for E3 was already over the top

I take it you consider the Dead Island trailer an outrageous scandal then?

But that trailer was serious about the loss of that family. It was effective, it worked. That kid in the vent thing was pointless and trite.

I'd argue that showing the kid dying was a very accurate way of portraying the casualties of war. I mean, the adults are never the only ones being killed.

Do you see the kid die? IIRC, he just vanishes back into the vent. Or did I miss something?

[Ainmarh]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

Do you see the kid die? IIRC, he just vanishes back into the vent. Or did I miss something?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't his evacuation shuttle shot by a Reaper? Pretty certain somebody said that somewhere.

Modifié par Ainmarh, 04 juillet 2011 - 11:14 .

[krzimmer]

GodWood wrote...

krzimmer wrote...

There can't be a double standard when it comes to moral issues such as this in movies and video games because the standards are different for both mediums, and that's the way it should be. 

Concerning movies, violence against children exists, yes, but even so, usually  it is only used when the context of the story and setting permit it.  "Enemy At the Gates" is a movie centered around historical events during WWII and is meant to make us aware of stuff that actually happened in our history.  A lot of the stuff you see in that movie actually happened.  Child soldiers, that actually happended back then (and is still a major problem in the world today, just watch "Blood Diamand").  You don't see much violence against children in fictional movies, and if
you do, they often have very real-world-like settings so that we understand that crap like this happens in the real world all the time.   

When it comes to video games, its a totaly different story.  First of all, children PLAY video games, even the worst of the mature rated ones these days.  I'd like to think that parents try to keep their children away from mature rated games, but we all know that, for the most part, this isn't really true.  I think most of us have been cussed out on Call of Duty of Halo online by some twelve year old at some point in time, I know I have.  Video games are interactive media and it makes it that much more personal for the player.  Sure, video games such as Mass Effect have tragic things happen in them.  It's a fictional story in a fictional universe in the future.  It's supposed to be fun and dramatic even involve tragic and even slightly disturbing elements, but there are moral boundaries that shouldn't be crossed, Violence against children being one of them.

Children are precious and innocent, and depictions of violence against them in any medium is somthing that is supposed to be REVOLTING in nature.  Something that people are shocked to see, and it should be, because it is morally wrong. It is something that shouldn't happen in our world. but does.  It is an ugly real world issue that needs to be dealt with; so don't bring it into video games, the purpose of which is our ENTERTAINMENT: that's the key word, because that's what video games are all about in the end, pure entertainment.  I don't want an issue like child violence to be used to satisfy my entertainment.  I find that revolting! Anyone who seriously says that they WANT to see this kind of thing in a video game has issues, and should take a deep introspective look at themselves. 

That's is my opinion anyway, take it or leave it.

No offense intended but IMO people like you are holding the games industry back.

No offense taken, but I strongly disagree.

So I'm holding the gaming intustry back because I am standing on my moral convictions that child violence should not be involved in an interactive entertainment experience......  Okay.

"People like me" are not at all trying to "hold the gaming industry back," in fact I encourage and am excited about the advancement of the medium.  That being said, I do believe there are moral concerns to take into consideration regarding certain themes and whether they should be manifested in video games.  The video game medium is perfectly capable of blossoming while following simple moral guidlines as to what is acceptable and what isn't in an interactive entertainment experience.  I believe this stance is perfectly reasonable.

One other thing. How can you draw such a conclusion about me based off of a SINGLE post I made about one of my moral convictions: "People like you are holding the gaming industry back."  What? Dude, All I was doing was stating what I beliefs. Geeze man, be carefull about lumping people into groups like that when you don't even know them.

I don't mean any offense either, this is just something I feel strongly about.

Cheers.

Modifié par krzimmer, 04 juillet 2011 - 12:01 .

[SAE100]

The Turians will do it someway. I mean, they do it right know, because, if I remember right every turian has to serve in the military when he grows 15 years old.
If done right I think it could be good integrated into the game, as a paragon/renegade-Decision.
Recruit everyone who can wield a gun --> Renegade, you have a lot more "soldier"
Recruit everyone 18 years and older --> Neutral, you get a good number of "soldiers"
Recruit only whos older than 18 years and volunteers --> Paragon your increase in "soldiers" is small

I think in the right context, that could be great, if done right.

[Zkyire]

krzimmer wrote...

No offense intended but IMO people like you are holding the games industry back.
No offense taken, but I strongly disagree.

So I'm holding the gaming intustry back because I am standing on my moral convictions that child violence should not be involved in an interactive entertainment experience......  Okay.

"People like me" are not at all trying to "hold the gaming industry back," in fact I encourage and am excited about the advancement of the medium.  That being said, I do believe there are moral concerns to take into consideration regarding certain themes and whether they should be manifested in video games.  The video game medium is perfectly capable of blossoming while following simple moral guidlines as to what is acceptable and what isn't in an interactive entertainment experience.  I believe this stance is perfectly reasonable.

One other thing. How can you draw such a conclusion about me based off of a SINGLE post I made about one of my moral convictions: "People like you are holding the gaming industry back."  What? Dude, All I was doing was stating what I beliefs. Geeze man, be carefull about lumping people into groups like that when you don't even know them.

I don't mean any offense either, this is just something I feel strongly about.

Cheers.

Well yes. What moral concerns?

The children aren't real.

The guns they're holding aren't real.

The bullets they're shooting aren't real.

The people being hit by said bullets aren't real.

No child is in any way, shape, or form being harmed.

They're all virtual characters doing virtual things. In the same way shooting adults in virtual games doesn't harm anyone because said adults aren't real. No outcry over that.

So tell me, where's the "moral" concern?

Modifié par IEatWhatIPoo, 04 juillet 2011 - 12:48 .

[HawkerFury]

well if there is still a front of such (spaceships and ground attacks) then no but if the reapers take over planets then bloody YES! hay the reapers are out to kill every one out so if they take over palnets it will not be peacefull ocupation! it will be RUN THE HELL TO THE HILLS NO TO THE CAVES NO TO THE SCARY FOREST! and in a reaper ocupation a mother will not be able to cover her children against a nasty reaper, if a kid can hold a gun and shoot then he sould do it because the alternative is to join the ranks of the junior hussks force ment to make shep cry and thus make his tears fill up his scope and miss thus beeing KILLED AGAIN BY GOD DAMN HUSSKS!.

[The Tookah]

Given Reapers are out to destroy every civilization in the galaxy, I think child soldiers make perfect sense. No, I don't want to see kiddies blown to bits either. But this franchise IS labeled "Mature". Isn't Earthborn Shepard supposed to have been in a gaang? Adolescents are quite capable of violence. I find it quite plausible they would grab up weapons from fallen soldiers to try to defend themselves. I am sure the ranks would accept recruits as young as 15 if they could hold a gun or carry supplies. We would see them in the combat arena where ever a group is under attack. We would see them being trained to help. We would see them sniping from ruins trying to stay alive.

[dreman9999]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

Ainmarh wrote...

InviolateNK wrote...

Inclusion of the kid who died in the gameplay demo for E3 was already over the top

I take it you consider the Dead Island trailer an outrageous scandal then?

But that trailer was serious about the loss of that family. It was effective, it worked. That kid in the vent thing was pointless and trite.

How was it pointless and trite? This is a war which the enemy want to kill every person regardless of age. It just show how extreme the event is.

Modifié par dreman9999, 04 juillet 2011 - 01:46 .

[TheKillerAngel]

New FOX headline: "Video game promotes raping and killing children."

[SalsaDMA]

The reapers aren't going to refrain from harming children anyways. Part of what they do is actively hunting children down and killing them.

So yes, I could certainly see the plausibility of somebody handing children arms. Not doing so would be downright silly, especially given the history humanity have of using such resources when desperation strikes.

And I agree on the dead island trailer. It's close to art and alot better than the average gametrailer ever hopes to aspire to in setting the mood.

[Macross]

If child soldiers are in it or not really depends on what Bioware are going for. If they are going for a truly dark and gritty feel (the true dark and gritty not just more bloodshed and gore) and are attempting to show the true horrors of war, especially against a nearly invincible force, than Child Soldiers are the best way to show this. As adults we are used to seeing other adults butchered and killed with out much reaction to it.

However children are a different thing because the true face of war is always seen on the children, those that get hurt (or killed) shows how war destroys innocence. When only adults are shown, war can be glorified and made out to be heroic event. If you involve children in it, even just one, it becomes a thing of absolute horror (which it is and which it, in my opinion, is how it should always be portrayed). Shying away from showing children is shying away from the reality of it. Child soldiers exist and if we are desperately fighting a war like the one in ME3 that our soldiers will keep on the getting younger and younger. This is a horrible thing, that is true, but it's also the truth about war and simply just mentioning this goes a long way to show what war really is.

Of course, the modern media and many gamers aren't mature enough or ready for something like this to intrude upon something that is still seen as being primarily made for children (despite the fact that gaming is now more along the lines of cinema in that the majority are directed at young adults or adults) and as such as massive blacklash would occur if children were portrayed on the battlefield dying.

However, the simple knowledge that children are/being forced to fight is enough to add a very deep layer of hopelessness and dread and to the true portrayal of war. And you can give this simple knowledge by showing one or two children being seen in battle gear and holding a gun in the non-combat playable areas on Earth or/and having a character mention (if you want to go for real darkness, only have it as a side comment or throw away line where the sheer matter of factness will have a far greater emotional impact than a much more angry or dramantic statement of it) that children are fighting and dying on Earth. It adds an extra layer of dread and urgency and realism to the idea that war is a hell.

Modifié par Macross, 04 juillet 2011 - 01:56 .

[sound wave88]

it be just like Red Dawn

[ReallyRue]

I doubt BW would do this, but in reality I could see it happening if organics had suffered immense casualties and were running out of soldiers.

[Saberchic]

No, no, no!

This will inevitably lead to ... "so now that children are in the game, Shep should have one!"

No children soldiers.
No adopting kids.
No femShep that is preggers for half the game.

Seriously, no kid is going to be able to fight a flippin' reaper.  This is a seriously horrible idea.

edit: spelling

Modifié par Saberchic, 04 juillet 2011 - 02:30 .

[slimgrin]

No way in hell is this happening, but I'd hold BIoware in high regard if they did. It's not as if it doesn't happen in real life.

On the related topic of children dying in games, sure that's been done. There's a sidequest in Divine Divinity where it's impossible to save a young boy from a vampire. ( it was for me anyway) The boy gets slain right in front your character.

Modifié par slimgrin, 04 juillet 2011 - 02:36 .

[krzimmer]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

krzimmer wrote...

No offense intended but IMO people like you are holding the games industry back.
No offense taken, but I strongly disagree.

So I'm holding the gaming intustry back because I am standing on my moral convictions that child violence should not be involved in an interactive entertainment experience......  Okay.

"People like me" are not at all trying to "hold the gaming industry back," in fact I encourage and am excited about the advancement of the medium.  That being said, I do believe there are moral concerns to take into consideration regarding certain themes and whether they should be manifested in video games.  The video game medium is perfectly capable of blossoming while following simple moral guidlines as to what is acceptable and what isn't in an interactive entertainment experience.  I believe this stance is perfectly reasonable.

One other thing. How can you draw such a conclusion about me based off of a SINGLE post I made about one of my moral convictions: "People like you are holding the gaming industry back."  What? Dude, All I was doing was stating what I beliefs. Geeze man, be carefull about lumping people into groups like that when you don't even know them.

I don't mean any offense either, this is just something I feel strongly about.

Cheers.

Well yes. What moral concerns?

The children aren't real.

The guns they're holding aren't real.

The bullets they're shooting aren't real.

The people being hit by said bullets aren't real.

No child is in any way, shape, or form being harmed.

They're all virtual characters doing virtual things. In the same way shooting adults in virtual games doesn't harm anyone because said adults aren't real. No outcry over that.

So tell me, where's the "moral" concern?

OH! So if it's not REAL than it can't be wrong at all!  OKAY! Yeah that makes sense!  Now that we have established that, let's include rape, abuse, graphic torture and degenerative, dehumanizing kinds of things in video games.  After all, none of it is actually real, so WHO CARES!  You realize that that's essentially what you are saying right?.... See how for you get with that argument.

Seriously, the fact that they are fictional charactors has no relevance to what I am saying.  Children should have no place in war in the real world, and, on that principle, shouldn't be depicted at war in video games.  As I said before,  video games are an entertainment experience at their core, and I don't want to see children on the battlefield getting killed for the sake of my entertainment.

Now, in Mass Effect, I understand that the entire galaxy is at stake and no one is safe.  There will be lots of casualties and children will no doubt be among them.  I understand that.  Just don't literaly show kids getting killed, where we see it with our own eyes.  That's where the line should be drawn. 

And dude, of course there is no outcry over shooting adults in video games.  Adults are supposed to be the ones fighting wars, that's the way it should be.  It's not reasonable to gripe about that.  Children getting shot - that's on a compeletely different level.

[SalsaDMA]

Saberchic wrote...

No, no, no!

This will inevitably lead to ... "so now that children are in the game, Shep should have one!"

No children soldiers.
No adopting kids.
No femShep that is preggers for half the game.

Seriously, no kid is going to be able to fight a flippin' reaper.  This is a seriously horrible idea.

edit: spelling

A kid in the future can use a low recoil weapon just as well as a kids can today. Or are you claiming that school shootouts, gang shootouts, children soldiers aren't possible today?

This isn't the middle age where you need a sturdy arm to be able to drive a piece of metal through someones liver to be able to kill them. You just need to pull the trigger on a weapon, and with husks of various kinds running amok on attacked worlds it would be natural for children to try and defend themselves too. Sure, depending on the circumstances you see them in their morale or qualifications may not be the best. But they can still squeeze a trigger from time to time, and the sum of those squeezed triggers might just be what saves the day in the end.

The alternative of complete annihilation certainly doesn't sound enticing enough for people to go: "oh... We better not give children any weapons, in case some arcaelogists in the distant future find evidence that we used children soldiers before we got wiped out and disaproves of it."

[Bail_Darilar]

I can only imagine krogans doing as much but since thier race is so infertile...

[SalsaDMA]

krzimmer wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

krzimmer wrote...

No offense intended but IMO people like you are holding the games industry back.
No offense taken, but I strongly disagree.

So I'm holding the gaming intustry back because I am standing on my moral convictions that child violence should not be involved in an interactive entertainment experience......  Okay.

"People like me" are not at all trying to "hold the gaming industry back," in fact I encourage and am excited about the advancement of the medium.  That being said, I do believe there are moral concerns to take into consideration regarding certain themes and whether they should be manifested in video games.  The video game medium is perfectly capable of blossoming while following simple moral guidlines as to what is acceptable and what isn't in an interactive entertainment experience.  I believe this stance is perfectly reasonable.

One other thing. How can you draw such a conclusion about me based off of a SINGLE post I made about one of my moral convictions: "People like you are holding the gaming industry back."  What? Dude, All I was doing was stating what I beliefs. Geeze man, be carefull about lumping people into groups like that when you don't even know them.

I don't mean any offense either, this is just something I feel strongly about.

Cheers.

Well yes. What moral concerns?

The children aren't real.

The guns they're holding aren't real.

The bullets they're shooting aren't real.

The people being hit by said bullets aren't real.

No child is in any way, shape, or form being harmed.

They're all virtual characters doing virtual things. In the same way shooting adults in virtual games doesn't harm anyone because said adults aren't real. No outcry over that.

So tell me, where's the "moral" concern?

OH! So if it's not REAL than it can't be wrong at all!  OKAY! Yeah that makes sense!  Now that we have established that, let's include rape, abuse, graphic torture and degenerative, dehumanizing kinds of things in video games.  After all, none of it is actually real, so WHO CARES!  You realize that that's essentially what you are saying right?.... See how for you get with that argument.

Seriously, the fact that they are fictional charactors has no relevance to what I am saying.  Children should have no place in war in the real world, and, on that principle, shouldn't be depicted at war in video games.  As I said before,  video games are an entertainment experience at their core, and I don't want to see children on the battlefield getting killed for the sake of my entertainment.

Now, in Mass Effect, I understand that the entire galaxy is at stake and no one is safe.  There will be lots of casualties and children will no doubt be among them.  I understand that.  Just don't literaly show kids getting killed, where we see it with our own eyes.  That's where the line should be drawn. 

And dude, of course there is no outcry over shooting adults in video games.  Adults are supposed to be the ones fighting wars, that's the way it should be.  It's not reasonable to gripe about that.  Children getting shot - that's on a compeletely different level.

I find it odd you are having such a discussion about a media that has already established violence and murder as enough of an everyday thing to happen that nobody even shrugs about it...

I mean, I take it you don't condone shooting other people, or stab them with long pieces of metal. Yet you have no qualms about such things in games. Your logic seems more than a little bit off to me when you have qualms about depicting some things but hav eno issues with depicting and even engaging in other equally objectionally events (such as stabbing/shooting/kicking/burning/whatever other people to death).

Edit: And just for kicks... What is your take on Vorcha? After all, they have an average lifespan of only 20 years, and you murder them happily enough in ME2 by the scores when you find them. Not to mentino that they have an established history of 'child abuse' where they abuse each other so as to make use of their unique physiology to make their bodies adapt better to hostile events.

Modifié par SalsaDMA, 04 juillet 2011 - 02:54 .