18 réponses à ce sujet

[xassantex]

/edit

ok, i'm at level 5 soldier now, and wondering which powers i should favor as i get more squad points : keep leveling up AR , or disruptor so i can unock incendiary and start using that , or improve my health with combat mastery ?

 eventualy they'll all come up but at early stages which ones would be most helpful ?

than ks 

Modifié par xassantex, 04 juillet 2011 - 06:56 .

[ryoldschool]

Max ar, then passive. Use Jacob or grunt for squad incendiary until you can Max your own ammo powers.. there are some good guides in the sticky at the top of this forum that have great discussion about any class.

[nicethugbert]

If you want to max your paragon or renegade scores and beat all the checks then max your passive first.  Plus the passive has an always on damage boost.

I did that, then maxed squad warp, then maxed ARush. I figured I'd do more damage overall with a squad ammo then with maxed ARush. I didn't want squad ammo on other squadies because:
1) It's not their best power
2) Their passives give a damage boost.
3) My shep being a soldier, squad ammo is among his best powers.
4) It gives me more flexibility in who I can take along.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 04 juillet 2011 - 03:03 .

[xassantex]

thanks,
haha, two different opinions and with both valid arguments.

i'm on hardcore which is not giving me any problems so far, so maybe it doesn't really matter at this stage .

Modifié par xassantex, 04 juillet 2011 - 05:24 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

nicethugbert wrote...

If you want to max your paragon or renegade scores and beat all the checks then max your passive first.  Plus the passive has an always on damage boost.

You don't miss out on morality points by maxing your passive late. Its bonus is always retroactively applied to your standing total. Also, morality checks work mostly according to the ratio b/w Paragon & Renegade, so in most cases you will be able to pass the important checks when you reach them regardless.

Max ARush first, then Passive (or together, with ARush having priority), then Ammo Powers.

[nicethugbert]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

If you want to max your paragon or renegade scores and beat all the checks then max your passive first.  Plus the passive has an always on damage boost.

You don't miss out on morality points by maxing your passive late. Its bonus is always retroactively applied to your standing total. Also, morality checks work mostly according to the ratio b/w Paragon & Renegade, so in most cases you will be able to pass the important checks when you reach them regardless.

Max ARush first, then Passive (or together, with ARush having priority), then Ammo Powers.

First time I hear that the check involves the ratio between between Paragon and Renegade points.  I read the check was made between your relevent morality points and the total available for that moratily at the time the check was made.  If it was the ratio between paragon and renegade then I don't understand why I could not make the Paragon check for the Miranda vs. Jack fight and against Morith when I had low Renegade and max Paragon without the max paragon/renegade passive.

And,  the Miranda vs. Jack check can be available fairly early.

I've played Insanity mattock soldier with maxing passive first, then warp ammo, then ARush and it was far from impossible to play like this.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 04 juillet 2011 - 11:55 .

[ryoldschool]

As it is explained somewhere on the forums by a dev, the Paragon / Renegade check is based on how much paragon/renegade you have vs how much you could have received if you had completed all points in an area.

An "area" is like Illium, or Omega, Citadel, Tuchanka. I zipped through a playthrough once and omitted doing the extra tasks that give you points ( free the slave, take care of Partiarch, etc ). and then I did fail the Jack/Miranda check. So if you start working on an "area" you should make sure you complete all side items. Once you do this then you still might need to change your passive to a 100% boost instead of 70% boost. If you import an ME1 game you get a lot of extra points so that makes it a lot easier - I mainly had this problem when doing an ng+ game ( no paragon/renegade import bonus ) or starting an ME2 game with no import.

[xassantex]

i'd be interested in knowing what powers soldiers are using here , and at which level.
Care to post those ?
thanks

[nicethugbert]

Shock Trooper Max
Heightened ARush Max
Squad Disruptor Ammo Max
Squad Warp Ammo Max
Squad Incendiary Ammo Max
Concussive Shot 1

I didn't put any points into Incendiary Ammo or Concussive Shot until level 30 because I got tired of seeing the extra points flashing at me.

[xassantex]

and i see you completely left out cryo ammo, and i agree . There's always the avalanche if one feels it's important.

switching from sentinel to soldier works pretty well so far, but i still have the reflex of pushing a mouse button ( re-mapped) to engage tech armor and get i'm getting AR instead..HAHA. Talk of being brainwashed.

Modifié par xassantex, 05 juillet 2011 - 06:11 .

[nicethugbert]

I left out cryo because it works only when defenses are down but warp and disruptor both take down defenses plus damage the appropriate target. Between the two of them, all targets and defenses are covered. Everything in insanity mode has extra defenses.

But, I could have used disruptor more often then I did because it jams weapons.

Some people really like cryo dispite the need to strip defenses first. They say that it make a deference anyway if you put it on your squad. I don't know. Maybe there is a YouTube vid making their case

Modifié par nicethugbert, 05 juillet 2011 - 10:25 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

nicethugbert wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

If you want to max your paragon or renegade scores and beat all the checks then max your passive first. Plus the passive has an always on damage boost.

You don't miss out on morality points by maxing your passive late. Its bonus is always retroactively applied to your standing total. Also, morality checks work mostly according to the ratio b/w Paragon & Renegade, so in most cases you will be able to pass the important checks when you reach them regardless.

Max ARush first, then Passive (or together, with ARush having priority), then Ammo Powers.

First time I hear that the check involves the ratio between between Paragon and Renegade points. I read the check was made between your relevent morality points and the total available for that moratily at the time the check was made. If it was the ratio between paragon and renegade then I don't understand why I could not make the Paragon check for the Miranda vs. Jack fight and against Morith when I had low Renegade and max Paragon without the max paragon/renegade passive.

And, the Miranda vs. Jack check can be available fairly early.

I've played Insanity mattock soldier with maxing passive first, then warp ammo, then ARush and it was far from impossible to play like this.

The morality system is mentioned in the stickied posts regarding loyaly missions and the SM and such. It's been waayyy too long since I've read them, so I can't give you an exact post. I can tell you that Pacifien wrote the post.

ME2 Insanity is as hard as ME2 gets, but it's still not too hard. You could do a whole playthrough w/o ARush if you wish, but the gameplay difference that levelling ARush first makes is so obvious that it's a no-brainer to recommend it it first as a best choice. Obviously passives are huge in this game too, which is why ME2 vets generally recommend maxing this early as well.

Squad Cryo Ammo is like early ARush in that it makes a very obvious, very visible difference in the game. On Veteran and below, using it will mean very desolate levels, as enemies will be cc'd very quickly. On Hardcore and above, your game tactics change and shooting becomes more about stripping defences and opening for combos than just straight up killing. Even in this case, Squad Cryo makes a drastic difference, as anyone you'd strip basically becomes cc'd and debuffed for a long time. This differs from Warp Ammo, which loses effectiveness as enemies scale up thoughout the game, and it differs from Incindiary Ammo, which can only cc organics and also suffers the same diminishing bonus as Warp. OTOH, Disruptor Ammo always pwns synthetics though, and is somewhat useful on organics for its cc effects. However, Cryo cc's and debuffs everything equally.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 05 juillet 2011 - 10:25 .

[kstarler]

My personal preference for leveling Soldier is to max ARush, Passive, Inferno Ammo, Squad Cryo, and then whatever else takes my fancy, in that order. Of course, I've always used level 60 ME1 imports, so I've never had a problem making a Paragon/Renegade check, depending on the path I was taking through the game. Your experience may be different depending on whether you are importing or not. Incidentally, a level 60 import can max ARush before Freedom's Progress (level 6 by the end of Lazarus Station). Without a high level ME1 import, your leveling preference may change.

[xassantex]

kstarler wrote...

My personal preference for leveling Soldier is to max ARush, Passive, Inferno Ammo, Squad Cryo, and then whatever else takes my fancy, in that order. Of course, I've always used level 60 ME1 imports, so I've never had a problem making a Paragon/Renegade check, depending on the path I was taking through the game. Your experience may be different depending on whether you are importing or not. Incidentally, a level 60 import can max ARush before Freedom's Progress (level 6 by the end of Lazarus Station). Without a high level ME1 import, your leveling preference may change.

thanks, interesting, so you like cryo ammo ?

i don't import characters anymore . 
I came to ME2 last March without ever having played ME1 , which i'm doing right now also . ( and damn i find it confusing ) .
So i reach level 30 , but start from scratch on each play through. I find it more challenging - having to do with less and  climbing the power ladder.
but that's right now, i could change my mind on the next playthrough..lol.

Right now i have :
AR - 3
Passive - 2
Disruptor - 2
Incendiary - 2
Stasis - 1 
Cryo - 0
Concussive - 1.

i still have to do Jack and Grunt before Horizon kicks in . 
Might do Project OVerlord before Grunt though just to get more power before Horizon, might allow me to max out AR or increase ammo. 
I do love Stasis as bonus power, it buys me time.
 

Modifié par xassantex, 06 juillet 2011 - 03:32 .

[kstarler]

Yes, I find Cryo Ammo useful. It's the best offensive ability against husks, and like Stasis, can buy the Soldier time when needed.

As others have mentioned, you can actually skip leveling Incendiary Ammo until you've leveled ARush and the Passive, because you have two squad mates (Jacob and Grunt) that can provided Squad Icendiary Ammo as needed. Having at least one point in Cryo Ammo by the time you reach Horizon is useful, as it really is great against Husks. Both the Vindicator and Mattock have a great proc rate, so you can generally see enemies freeze with a lot more consistency than with the Avenger/Revenant, even with only one point in the power.

Alternatively, Neural Shock and Slam will insta-kill unprotected Husks, and both have very short cool downs. Improved Flashbang Grenade (if you have Stolen Memories) can kill groups of both protected (sometimes) and unprotected Husks consistently, but is on a longer cool down, has a learning curve, and requires 10 points into the power.

EDIT: By the way, the video linked isn't the best demonstration of how to use Cryo Ammo, (or even play a Soldier) and the build is a little gimped. It was thrown together as a rebuttal to a group of folks on the forum that were complaining that the Soldier was weak against Husks, and mentioned that mission in particular. However, I think it does get the point across as to how effective Cryo Ammo can be.

Modifié par kstarler, 06 juillet 2011 - 03:46 .

[xassantex]

i just followed your advice and did advanced training to cancel out my bonus points. I noew have one point on cryo ammo and one on stasis .
going to recruit grunt now, then i 'll retrain again and opt for neural shock or slam. and face Horizon next. ( guess i'll take kasumi with me and use her neural shock as well. ).

thanks for the advice.

[ryoldschool]

(1) Cryo Ammo.  I did a study about a year ago in Reaper IFF.  It showed ( to me anyway ) that squad cryo ammo is better than squad AP ammo, at least on that mission.  I tried combinations of four squadmates with either squad cryo ammo or squad AP ammo.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/4573364

(2) Pacificen's thread on The Persuasion System in ME2:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/2907273

Key point to this thread:

Kim Stolz wrote...

crapmonster13 wrote...
Maybe I was just lucky, but its hard to imagine that people actually actively going the paragon route and have over 90% still have trouble resolving these disputes.

Actually that's very believable.Since so many people want the explanation of how this works I'll tell you. Don't read any further if you don't want it spoiled. There are potential paragon and renegade points throughout the game. When the user arrives in an area (ie: Omega) the game registers every single paragon or renegade decision that can be made and increases the difficulty of the persuade system based on these potential points. If the user collects all of these points (either paragon OR renegade) they break even they can almost never get ahead of the system, you can only keep apace. If the user misses these oppotunities to collect all of the points the game still keeps these points you missed so the player will actually fall behind. If the player falls behind it is very difficult and almost impossible to catch back up because everywhere you go more potential points are being mounted against you and making the persuasions more difficult. So when you arrive at the most difficult persuasions in the game where you are already at a disadvantage due to the difficulty of the persuade and these potential points that you missed stack up to make it even more difficult and then you try to paragon persuade jack and miranda which makes it even more difficult(it's easier to renegade persuade those two and paragon persuade legion and tali) you are going to fail it; not because it's a bug but because the system was made that way.

What I think a lot of people aren't realizing is that when you import an ME1 save you get a pretty major bonus to the paragon or renegade scale which makes the persuades incredibly easy. then you start an ME2 newgame + and you are working from a clean slate.

Hopefully that explains it well enough for  you. I've talked to the people who made this system and decided on the bonus for starting a newgame+ and the odds of this being changed or made easier are very, very low. If you're confused by the explanation I gave or need some clarification please feel free to PM me. Thanks.

Modifié par ryoldschool, 06 juillet 2011 - 12:57 .

[xassantex]

i gave up on the persuasion thing a while back. the only one i ever fail is miranda and i don't care.
i did Zaeed's mission early , chose to save the miners and still kept his loyalty , i wan't even trying it just happened. Guess i was ahead of the game with points.

[skuko]

i have never had a single problem with persuation in ME2, but then again i only played a ME1 imported paragon character. gonna start a new game one of these days from scratch and go renegade all the way to see whats what.