1930 réponses à ce sujet

[Darc_Requiem]

What's with people continuing to say "who knows how Ash has changed over the years" when ME2 has her in heavy armor and occurs months before ME3.

ME2

[Tric]

Siansonea II wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Here's my take on these:

image here

*snip*

I love how everyone looks at something badass like Vega's outfit and goes "Derp".<_< This forum is full of hipsters.

If by "hipster" you mean "not a stereotypical 15-year-old male" then guilty as charged, I guess.

Seriously, anyone who thinks Vega's outfit is genuinely "badass"—*heavy sigh*

Isn't it then stereotyping when people judge a character based solemly on their looks?

Maybe we could wait a bit until we know how his personality is before "laying the hate" on him. Who knows, he might suprise you for the better.

[crimzontearz]

Darc_Requiem wrote...

What's with people continuing to say "who knows how Ash has changed over the years" when ME2 has her in heavy armor and occurs months before ME3.

ME2

this +1000000

[Candidate 88766]

Xeranx wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
-snip-

Please tell me how character growth is equivalent to a change in protective attire in combat situations.  Ashley states her dislike for Asari commando attire in combat in the first game. 

Ashley states she's an Alliance Marine.  "It's in my blood" being a defining comment if I ever heard one.  This is done in ME2.

Stating that we don't know how she's changed in 3 years, thereby completely ignoring the above evidence found in ME2, seems like a move to make your statement and label people however you want because you don't agree with them.  

If the time between ME2 and ME3 is a few months how do you think her change can be justified?  How do you justify a departure from what one considered practical and safe to use in combat to embracing something that goes against everything she's known for?

1st. 6 to 12 months has passed between the end of ME2 and the start of ME3, and the encounter on Horizon took place before that. Since then, she has become a Spectre - which she couldn't have been when she was on Horizon because, as you say, she was an Alliance marine then. Thats a pretty big change for someone to go through, and we have no idea what kind of Spectre she will become. A soldier wears massive armour because they are deployed to the front. They follow orders and generally just have to shoot at things. A Spectre approaches things in many ways - not just combat, but also with stealth and diplomacy. It may be that she has become a paragon-style Spectre, prepared to ask questions first and shoot only if required. She no longer has to follow orders, except from the Council. A Spectre can be delopyed long before any shooting is required, whereas a soldier is deployed when shooting is pretty much certain.

2nd. No only has there been enough time for her character to change, but she also witnessed her old Commander brought back from the dead, saw a colony under her superivision attacked and has been promoted to Spectre. Thats enough to change anyone a significant amount.

3rd. Not only has Bioware stated those aren't final, but we also don't know that the outfit she is wearing is her combat gear.

4th. I've already argued why factually accurate combat gear is not essential for the style of science-fiction Mass Effect is, but people seem to have glazed over that. I shouldn't have put that first paragraph in my original comment.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 04 juillet 2011 - 09:58 .

[TexasToast712]

 Allright, I give up on this thread. Iam just going to go do this now.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 04 juillet 2011 - 09:59 .

[Icinix]

Candidate 88766 wrote...
(snippered)
3rd. Not only has Bioware stated those aren't final, but we also don't know that the outfit she is wearing is her combat gear.

I'll quote this because I do believe this.

However - Character change (in a computer game of all places) shouldn't warrant a boob job.

Unless that game is Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball - then its acceptable - incidentally analytics also suggest most people played that game one handed.

Just because YOU CAN change a character and claim they've changed over time (story wise)- when that change appears to be for the service of getting people steamy - doesn't mean you SHOULD change a character.

[naledgeborn]

• Liara looks like some sort of warrior priestess.... definitely biting Samara's style
• Vega looks like he ate lead based paint chips as a child.
• Ashley looks like her style is bi-polar. She's stuck between thigh high boots/tinfoil miniskirt and battle armor.
• Kaidan is the only one that's different (badass) yet recognizable. 

[-Skorpious-]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
-snip-

Please tell me how character growth is equivalent to a change in protective attire in combat situations.  Ashley states her dislike for Asari commando attire in combat in the first game. 

Ashley states she's an Alliance Marine.  "It's in my blood" being a defining comment if I ever heard one.  This is done in ME2.

Stating that we don't know how she's changed in 3 years, thereby completely ignoring the above evidence found in ME2, seems like a move to make your statement and label people however you want because you don't agree with them.  

If the time between ME2 and ME3 is a few months how do you think her change can be justified?  How do you justify a departure from what one considered practical and safe to use in combat to embracing something that goes against everything she's known for?

1st. 6 to 12 months has passed between the end of ME2 and the start of ME3, and the encounter on Horizon took place before that. Since then, she has become a Spectre - which she couldn't have been when she was on Horizon because, as you say, she was an Alliance marine then. Thats a pretty big change for someone to go through, and we have no idea what kind of Spectre she will become. A soldier wears massive armour because they are deployed to the front. They follow orders and generally just have to shoot at things. A Spectre approaches things in many ways - not just combat, but also with stealth and diplomacy. It may be that she has become a paragon-style Spectre, prepared to ask questions first and shoot only if required. She no longer has to follow orders, except from the Council. A Spectre can be delopyed long before any shooting is required, whereas a soldier is deployed when shooting is pretty much certain.

Example of known Spectres -
Saren
Nihlus
Tela Vasir
Commander Shepard

Notice a pattern? 

*edit* This forum has issues with links, but I'm sure you can google the names for yourself. 

Candidate 88766 wrote...

2nd. No only has there been enough time for her character to change, but she also witnessed her old Commander brought back from the dead, saw a colony under her superivision attacked and has been promoted to Spectre. Thats enough to change anyone a significant amount.

Yeah, but if it caused her to enter combat situations with high-heels and a v-neck then it means she is completely stupid and not "changed". 

Candidate 88766 wrote...

3rd. Not only has Bioware stated those aren't final, but we also don't know that the outfit she is wearing is her combat gear.

Hopefully its her casual suit, but until Bioware shows otherwise, I can only expect this will be her final combat attire. 

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 04 juillet 2011 - 10:07 .

[Candidate 88766]

Icinix wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
(snippered)
3rd. Not only has Bioware stated those aren't final, but we also don't know that the outfit she is wearing is her combat gear.

I'll quote this because I do believe this.

However - Character change (in a computer game of all places) shouldn't warrant a boob job.

Unless that game is Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball - then its acceptable - incidentally analytics also suggest most people played that game one handed.

Just because YOU CAN change a character and claim they've changed over time (story wise)- when that change appears to be for the service of getting people steamy - doesn't mean you SHOULD change a character.

In the romance scene Ash had larger breasts than she did when she was suited up. I assumed it was just because the armour was fairly constrictive in that region.

[Apollo Starflare]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Apollo Starflare wrote...

Miranda having the outfit she wears makes perfect sense given her character, although admittedly taken to an extreme. The cinematography is where the real blame lies for me, as it unnecessarily drew attention to it repeatedly when the point had already been made several times previously.

I thought it made very little sense given her character to wear it all the time.  She certainly isn't above using her looks to get what she wants, but she also expresses the fact she's essentially ashamed of it and her "gifts" are a constant reminder of her cruelly selfish father.  

Delayed reponse is delayed, anyway:

I agree it made little sense that she wears it all the time, but alas such was the limitations of the game for whatever reason. I believe that outfit pack belatedly corrected the issue, but that only asks the question why it wasn't in there from the start.

Whilst everything you say is true, it's also very much something she hides about herself with only people who get to know her well finding that out. Other than that I got the impression she uses her 'perfection' as a tool (as you say), and that this would extend to what she wore - making full use of the 'tool'. Be it to get what she wants or just to best fulfil her role within Cerberus. Sure she wasn't proud of her genetically designed good looks but she had no qualms about using them, and it seemed to fit with the persona she had cultivated even within her Cell (incredibly attractive ice queen) for me.

It's debatable certainly, and really her character should be intelligent enough otherwise to know not to wear such an outfit in combat situations, but my point was more that it could be explained from an in universe perspective (and not completely out of nowhere); rather than that it was the only reading of it.

[Candidate 88766]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Example of known Spectres -
Saren
Nihlus
Tela Vasir
Commander Shepard

Notice a pattern? 

Not including Shepard, they are all renegade - prepared to shoot first and ask questions later. Of course they wore more armour - the situaitons they'd put themselves in meant they'd get shot at a lot.

Saren - I don't need to explain.
Nihlus - was chased by Samara, whose job it is to hunt the 'unjust', and only escapes by creating a situation where an innocent could have died.
Tela Vasir - helped blow up a building of innocents, or at the very least worked alongside the people that did that.

Ash may yet turn out to be a more diplomatic Spectre. Her outfit seems more like the Cerberus Officer's outfit than anything else, and I always thought that looked pretty proffessional.


EDIT - having looked at the image again, she does appear to be wearing heels and that is a bit much if that is her combat gear. Everything else is acceptable though.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 04 juillet 2011 - 10:09 .

[Icinix]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
(snippered)
3rd. Not only has Bioware stated those aren't final, but we also don't know that the outfit she is wearing is her combat gear.

I'll quote this because I do believe this.

However - Character change (in a computer game of all places) shouldn't warrant a boob job.

Unless that game is Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball - then its acceptable - incidentally analytics also suggest most people played that game one handed.

Just because YOU CAN change a character and claim they've changed over time (story wise)- when that change appears to be for the service of getting people steamy - doesn't mean you SHOULD change a character.

In the romance scene Ash had larger breasts than she did when she was suited up. I assumed it was just because the armour was fairly constrictive in that region.

I think that was more because they just used the same body for Liara and Ash in the sex scene.

Also, when shes just in the tee around the shop - her breasts are the same as when in her armour. Regardless - its a big change. Particularly if the zip up rubber shes wearing has any sort of semblence to a wet suit. Those things tuck in boobies like its going out of fashion.

[Candidate 88766]

Icinix wrote...

I think that was more because they just used the same body for Liara and Ash in the sex scene.

Also, when shes just in the tee around the shop - her breasts are the same as when in her armour. Regardless - its a big change. Particularly if the zip up rubber shes wearing has any sort of semblence to a wet suit. Those things tuck in boobies like its going out of fashion.

Every female character wore that zip up suit under their armour. Even male shepard has something like that under his armour.

[-Skorpious-]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Example of known Spectres -
Saren
Nihlus
Tela Vasir
Commander Shepard

Notice a pattern? 

Not including Shepard, they are all renegade - prepared to shoot first and ask questions later. Of course they wore more armour - the situaitons they'd put themselves in meant they'd get shot at a lot.

Saren - I don't need to explain.
Nihlus - was chased by Samara, whose job it is to hunt the 'unjust', and only escapes by creating a situation where an innocent could have died.
Tela Vasir - helped blow up a building of innocents, or at the very least worked alongside the people that did that.

Ash may yet turn out to be a more diplomatic Spectre. Her outfit seems more like the Cerberus Officer's outfit than anything else, and I always thought that looked pretty proffessional.


EDIT - having looked at the image again, she does appear to be wearing heels and that is a bit much if that is her combat gear. Everything else is acceptable though.

Nobody can argue that Kaidan is more of a paragon than Ashley - nobody. Yet, he has the common sense to wear proper armor. 

Anyways, I'll say it again - wearing high-heels and exposing your chest as a soldier (i.e spectre) does not make you more diplomatic - it makes you look unpractical and completely rediculous.

[Eromenos]

crusher1990 wrote...

I was browsing this portuguse forum and I found this pic. Not sure If it was posted here yet.

http://i1093.photobu...umes_1920-1.jpg

Edit:
N7 Pistol
N7 SMG
N7 Shotgun
N7 Sniper Rifle

Found higher res pics of N7 weapon pack.

A lot of us loved ME1 for its 80s-style of scifi exploration...but I, for one, wasn't asking them to put in nasty femullets and headbands, or shoulder-pads on wimmin. Gods. Space opera please, not soap opera.

This is even worse than Miranda and Samara combined. A female Marine grunt wearing a catsuit, high-heels, loose hair, and showing off cleavage. Ah, but shoulder-pads make it "ok" like they did for Samara. Oh wait, they didn't.

Kaidan's head looks pasted-on. 

ETA: And a skirt, too? Fail.

Modifié par Eromenos, 04 juillet 2011 - 10:20 .

[Icinix]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

I think that was more because they just used the same body for Liara and Ash in the sex scene.

Also, when shes just in the tee around the shop - her breasts are the same as when in her armour. Regardless - its a big change. Particularly if the zip up rubber shes wearing has any sort of semblence to a wet suit. Those things tuck in boobies like its going out of fashion.

Every female character wore that zip up suit under their armour. Even male shepard has something like that under his armour.

Yep. All the more reason to proove her boobs are now bigger.

My argument is about the change to character for the sake of appealing to a selection of audience for the sake of appealing to them.

I don't care about a character if they change - as long as its for the right reasons. A boob job has no sense apart from an appeal factor to a demographic of gamers.

[AngelicMachinery]

Icinix wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

I think that was more because they just used the same body for Liara and Ash in the sex scene.

Also, when shes just in the tee around the shop - her breasts are the same as when in her armour. Regardless - its a big change. Particularly if the zip up rubber shes wearing has any sort of semblence to a wet suit. Those things tuck in boobies like its going out of fashion.

Every female character wore that zip up suit under their armour. Even male shepard has something like that under his armour.

Yep. All the more reason to proove her boobs are now bigger.

My argument is about the change to character for the sake of appealing to a selection of audience for the sake of appealing to them.

I don't care about a character if they change - as long as its for the right reasons. A boob job has no sense apart from an appeal factor to a demographic of gamers.

A boob job can mean more than that,  but,  I don't really see Ashley to be the type to seek out that particular brand of enhancement.  She seemed pretty confident in whom she was.

[Hathur]

If that's what Vega looks like in the final game, he's getting put on the short bus permanently in my playthroughs.... Both his face and armor look absurd.

He has a massive case of Gears of War "My boots are 8x wider than my actual feet" ... Kaidan is wearing reasonable looking boots.... Vega looks like a GoW reject.

Also, what is he? A teenager? That hairdo... dear god... he's supposedly an alliance soldier... the hell is wrong with him...

Modifié par Hathur, 04 juillet 2011 - 10:23 .

[Cerai13]

Yeah, to me the new appearance for Ash appears to be the equivalent of a tasteful uniform. Something very much suited for a Lieutenant or ranking officer. Assuming her outfit reflects her rank as an officer (Lt), having her out on the front lines IMMEDIATELY as a soldier class is highly unlikely from an alliance perspective. She is no longer a peon who is disposable, though I am sure she would love to be there kicking ****. She may have even adjusted her fighting style to better suit that of a officer and spectre (infiltrator?) further legitimizing the design changes. What all "Ashley = Soldier" purists should be asking for is a good reason for her change in appearance through dialogue. What if she dislikes the outfit they gave her? There could be a whole ton of little details to make sense of a simple change in style. At any rate, armor may be her "loyalty" mission type unlock in ME3, these extras are just for cool guys who got the collectors edition!

[Someone With Mass]

Cerai13 wrote...

Yeah, to me the new appearance for Ash appears to be the equivalent of a tasteful uniform. Something very much suited for a Lieutenant or ranking officer. Assuming her outfit reflects her rank as an officer (Lt), having her out on the front lines IMMEDIATELY as a soldier class is highly unlikely from an alliance perspective. She is no longer a peon who is disposable, though I am sure she would love to be there kicking ****. She may have even adjusted her fighting style to better suit that of a officer and spectre (infiltrator?) further legitimizing the design changes. What all "Ashley = Soldier" purists should be asking for is a good reason for her change in appearance through dialogue. What if she dislikes the outfit they gave her? There could be a whole ton of little details to make sense of a simple change in style. At any rate, armor may be her "loyalty" mission type unlock in ME3, these extras are just for cool guys who got the collectors edition!

Shepard is a Commander, and he's wearing armor.

It's like saying: I'm the CEO of this company, so I don't have to wear safety gear on the construction sites.

It's just stupid. 

[Icinix]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

I think that was more because they just used the same body for Liara and Ash in the sex scene.

Also, when shes just in the tee around the shop - her breasts are the same as when in her armour. Regardless - its a big change. Particularly if the zip up rubber shes wearing has any sort of semblence to a wet suit. Those things tuck in boobies like its going out of fashion.

Every female character wore that zip up suit under their armour. Even male shepard has something like that under his armour.

Yep. All the more reason to proove her boobs are now bigger.

My argument is about the change to character for the sake of appealing to a selection of audience for the sake of appealing to them.

I don't care about a character if they change - as long as its for the right reasons. A boob job has no sense apart from an appeal factor to a demographic of gamers.

A boob job can mean more than that,  but,  I don't really see Ashley to be the type to seek out that particular brand of enhancement.  She seemed pretty confident in whom she was.

Exactly. Its a character that that particular change flies in the face of everything that character stands for.  Meaning its not a change for a story element, or character development, its a chnge for the sake of appeal to a select audience.  Which is where my issue with it lies.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Soap MacTavish!

-Polite

[Xeranx]

@Candidate 88766


1) Despite being made a Spectre Shepard is told that they still represent the Alliance.  Why would that not be the case considering we know that Anderson, Hackett, and Udina were the ones to put Shepard's name forward for possible selection?  Shepard him/herself didn't opt to become a Spectre.

As a Spectre Shepard still has guidelines to follow.  Shepard isn't a pirate.  He/She does not operate along the lines of Lord Darius, Wasea, or Tarik.  He/She still answers to someone as referenced in ME with the reports and how the Council stripped Saren of his Spectre status.

You're again, ignoring what Ashley said regarding Asari commando armor.  You're waving away parts of her personality to give way to a person that doesn't represent pragmatism the way she's depicted in the alternate shot in the OP.  A soldier does not do away with the very things that made them secure if they want to continue living.  Ashley's pragmatic.  If she needs to wear her garb in the alternate shot for an op then she will, but she will not choose that over armor if the option is available.  What you're stating here is that we should believe Ashley abandons sense or that Bioware made her abandon sense.  

Being a Spectre should not automatically cause her to be reprogrammed into thinking that less protection equals better protection.

2) The events on Horizon may be enough to alter someone, but it should not alter a person to a point that they abandon any sense they have. 

3) It's a re-color of what we saw in E3.  A now closed thread had people who disagreed with others like myself calling us sexist because Ashley is supposed to be wearing what we've been shown in E3.  Yet we were talking about how practical she was and expecting her to maintain that.  If that was to be her courtroom attire I would have liked it, but I would give it a pass.  That it looks like this is something that she'll be wearing in combat I can't just sit here and not voice my concern over the issue.  Especially when her creator is no longer a part of Bioware and some of her comments in ME2 seem to show her going backward in characterization rather than actually growing.  Of course I'm referring to her "not fond of aliens" comment which is completely contrary to what she said in the first game whether you romanced her or not.

4) Of course people will glaze over that because combat attire was established in the first game and it seems everyone else follows practicality in combat in ME2...Just not on your side.  

ME2 was not the first in the series hence the '2' in the title.  It came second.  Practicality was key in ME and judging by L'Etoile's blog he fought to have it included in the game.  There weren't half-face breath masks used in caustic environments.  I wouldn't hear Wrex talk about how a planet's environment stings him while parts of Ashley or Liara are exposed like exists in ME2.  Take Grunt and Jack to (I forget the name of the planet) and Grunt will say something about the air and how it stings him.  No one else with exposed skin will say anything.

Modifié par Xeranx, 04 juillet 2011 - 10:37 .

[Cerai13]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Cerai13 wrote...

Yeah, to me the new appearance for Ash appears to be the equivalent of a tasteful uniform. Something very much suited for a Lieutenant or ranking officer. Assuming her outfit reflects her rank as an officer (Lt), having her out on the front lines IMMEDIATELY as a soldier class is highly unlikely from an alliance perspective. She is no longer a peon who is disposable, though I am sure she would love to be there kicking ****. She may have even adjusted her fighting style to better suit that of a officer and spectre (infiltrator?) further legitimizing the design changes. What all "Ashley = Soldier" purists should be asking for is a good reason for her change in appearance through dialogue. What if she dislikes the outfit they gave her? There could be a whole ton of little details to make sense of a simple change in style. At any rate, armor may be her "loyalty" mission type unlock in ME3, these extras are just for cool guys who got the collectors edition!

Shepard is a Commander, and he's wearing armor.

It's like saying: I'm the CEO of this company, so I don't have to wear safety gear on the construction sites.

It's just stupid. 

Still, I am pretty sure the CEO doesn't wear hardhats in his personal office. Clothing has to be situationally appropriate (and pants appropriate fo that matter!) and the point is we all know Ash, would not opt for this armor in a fight. She may however be wearing it, when a fight breaks out. It is reasonable to see her in this uniform, just a bit odd for shepard to insist she wear it

[Finis Valorum]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

4th. I've already argued why factually accurate combat gear is not essential for the style of science-fiction Mass Effect is, but people seem to have glazed over that. I shouldn't have put that first paragraph in my original comment.

Yet Commander Shepard even when played as a Paragon Adept must from ME@ onwards wear the heavyest armour possible in game. I've got nothing against factually inacurate combat gear however if all my squadmates get to look nice and sexy I don't want to have to dress like a tank. So Ideally I'd like to have the option for every character to either have them in somewhat factually accurate combat armour or in combat casual including Shepard. It's supposed to be a role playing game I'm sick of my Adepts and Sentinels having to look like walking tanks or Mecha while everyone else seems to be able to do fine in a catsuit.