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[blazeking416]

In dragon age 2 towards the end when you choose between mages and templars. Who would you choose? Remember the repercuations of you choice.

I would choose the mages. There are many reason to choose siding templars and this simple choice can rock and change history itself, but the only reason I choose the mages is to prevent genocide in holocaust level in thedas. Choosing mages has some some negatives like what is like to happen. If mages did rise up it would weaken countries everywhere and riots, civil war and war between countries. Probably making governments and monarchies everywhere to change and loose in relevance. Mages with be more dominant and end results would be better human rights and magi rights too. Hundereds of thousand will probably die in this process but its nothing to millions you save and I personally let thousand of soldiers die for a million citizens. Anyways, Orlasis will probably invade become the dominant country and world power. Other races will invade human lands.

Now if you choose Templars, IT will probably will result in a **** like state and jews will be the mages result in a massive genocide. Aleast 30% of the world's population will die and femine will be increasingly common. Ferelden will become like a **** germany and strong country.  More will die and either hawke or somebody else be playing hilter role. A whole race will die if the arishok don't pervent this ffrom happen. Long drawn out war between the 4 races ( humans, elves, dwarves, quarni). Humans will likely pair with the dwarves and elves and quarni together.

know and imagining what will happen with your choice who would you choose? Or does this doesn't concern you and you only go by insticint? Tell me please. explain.

ps: I know i sort of explain it alot but hey ^.^ ima history and politics major! 

[Raygereio]

If you're giving me a real choice then I choose neither since both sides are short sighted and thus wrong.
.
To Orsino:
The cirlce is a necessary evil. Mages are inherently dangerous due to the threats of demonic possession and possible abuse of blood magic. Removing chantry influence from the circle will also mean the mages have lost a huge network athat could take immediate action once a child-mage was found out. Without that network and unless the mages want to setup another Tevinter and take direct control of the nation, newborn mages will have no place to go to learn how to control their powres and will likely be killed by angry mobs.

To Meredith:
The fact that the circle is needed, does not mean it's okay to physically and/or mentally abuse, or kill mages for the sole fact that they're mages, Instead of making the circle a prison from which everyone who has two braincells to rub to together will want to escape, one should be doing their best it as comfortable as possible.
Even if you have screwy morals, then murdering all the mages is a strategically idiotic move for two reasons. For one backing someone in a corner will drive that person to acts of desperation. When that person is a walking nuclear bomb, then that is likely to result in massive loss of lives. Secondly, the mages represent a powerfull strategic option. One no nation in the DA'verse can afford to loose given the existances of blights and two hostile nations who employ mages.

Modifié par Raygereio, 04 juillet 2011 - 06:50 .

[whykikyouwhy]

There are certainly many areas of the DA storyline that parallel or draw influence from our own history, and the writers have confirmed some of that. However, I try to not look at the games under that filter, although I am sure that I wind up doing that subconsciously.

I think that DA2 presents you with some reasons to side with either camp, and plenty of reasons not to. Having a family member who may potentially side with one group, or who will be, by birth, part of another, is meant to be part of the internal struggle - it sweetens the deal, so to speak. Do you take stance A and turn your back on family, or do you take stance B and embrace their convictions? Same goes with the romance options.

I don't know that we can anticipate what will happen either way post DA2 - I mean, it's all speculation, especially if we make conscious parallels to history. For me, I have sided with the mages in my playthroughs thus far. It felt right as a player, and for my characters. The mages were being overtly oppressed, controlled, beat down, etc. Unlike in DA:O's Fereldan, where there seemed to be more acceptance of mages (or perhaps the story did not lend itself to displaying their true treatment as openly as DA2), Kirkwall has a strong anti-mage undercurrent, even if it's just a level of wariness and fear. Much of that comes from Meredith, but there are other influences. A whole domino effect of events, etc that have led to citizens who treat mages as "the other."

So, having Bethany as a mage, and feeling very much that the mages had an actual plight, my Hawke(s) sided with them. The Anders angle...I won't get into. Ideally, there should have been an ability to balance things - get the templars in check and the Circle into something more humane, but that wouldn't be as dramatic or moving as having two very profound extremes and the ultimate chaos from the schism.

[Macropodmum]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

 For me, I have sided with the mages in my playthroughs thus far. It felt right as a player, and for my characters. The mages were being overtly oppressed, controlled, beat down, etc. Unlike in DA:O's Fereldan, where there seemed to be more acceptance of mages (or perhaps the story did not lend itself to displaying their true treatment as openly as DA2), Kirkwall has a strong anti-mage undercurrent, even if it's just a level of wariness and fear.

I have to agree, I also sided with the mages due to the fact that they were so poorly and unjustly treated that even templars themselves realised it was wrong.  That said I not long finished my first playthrough and I am still reeling from what Anders did, I feel that he just made the plight of the mages even worse and he certainly wasn't the Anders I had grown to love in awakenings.  Honestly I think there were so many gut wrenching decisions throughout the game and whether or not they changed the course of history or not probably pales in comparison to how making some of those choices affected the player....

[Icy Magebane]

A lot of assumptions and exaggerations in the OP. This is easily one of the most ridiculous threads I've read supporting mage freedom, as both scenarios are just biased fanfic. There is absolutely no logical way to conclude that the Right of Annulment in Kirkwall would lead to mass starvation, etc... 30% of the world's population dies just like that? Whereas the elimination of restrictions on mages leads to a global utopia... Mages rule Tevinter and nothing we've heard about it suggests that there's a higher standard of human rights. Slavery is legal there, in fact, and it is not uncommon for magisters to use slaves for blood magic rituals. Note that I am not saying that this would happen again, but simply discarding current events and coming up with wild fantasies like this is absurd.

This idea is barely worth the time I'm taking to criticize it. I don't even mind if you support the mages, but try to present a more logical argument next time...

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 04 juillet 2011 - 01:51 .

[LobselVith8]

My Hawke sided with the mages - Meredith made it clear that she was invoking the Right of Annulment because of what Anders did. The Circle mages weren't responsible for the actions of one apostate.

Does choice really matter, though? The problem is that choice doesn't really matter in the narrative of Dragon Age 2. Both the mage and the templar ending had virtually the same outcome: mages rebel, and templars rebel. Hawke always disappears in three years. Even the narrative had the same outcome, with none of the choices changing Kirkwall if you made one particular choice instead of the other. All three Starkhaven Circle mages were mad: Decimus was always insane, Quentin was always insane, Grace was always insane. There were always sadistic templars. The good templar, Ser Thrask, is always killed in an asinine way because The Plot Dictates, no matter what choice Hawke makes in "Act of Mercy" and regardless of who he sided with at the beginning of Act III.

It's doubtful we'll even have a choice to determine if mages or templars will win the war, because I don't see the developers spending the time to accomodate both choices for every sequel. It'll be another decision that's forced on us.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 04 juillet 2011 - 02:09 .

[Macropodmum]

LobselVith8 wrote...

My Hawke sided with the mages - Meredith made it clear that she was invoking the Right of Annulment because of what Anders did. The Circle mages weren't responsible for the actions of one apostate.

Does choice really matter, though? The problem is that choice doesn't really matter in the narrative of Dragon Age 2. Both the mage and the templar ending had virtually the same outcome: mages rebel, and templars rebel. Hawke always disappears in three years. Even the narrative had the same outcome, with none of the choices changing Kirkwall if you made one particular choice instead of the other. All three Starkhaven Circle mages were mad: Decimus was always insane, Quentin was always insane, Grace was always insane. There were always sadistic templars. The good templar, Ser Thrask, is always killed in an asinine way because The Plot Dictates, no matter what choice Hawke makes in "Act of Mercy" and regardless of who he sided with at the beginning of Act III.

It's doubtful we'll even have a choice to determine if mages or templars will win the war, because I don't see the developers spending the time to accomodate both choices for every sequel. It'll be another decision that's forced on us.

And as much as I enjoyed DA2 I think that this was it's biggest let down, the ending was always going to happen the way it does and our actions seem pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.  I suspect maybe this may have something to do with the plot of DA3 (and EA holding the purse strings) but it seems to be a far cry from the influence of our decisions in Origins

[TEWR]

Raygereio wrote...

If you're giving me a real choice then I choose neither since both sides are short sighted and thus wrong.
.
To Orsino:
The cirlce is a necessary evil. Mages are inherently dangerous due to the threats of demonic possession and possible abuse of blood magic. Removing chantry influence from the circle will also mean the mages have lost a huge network athat could take immediate action once a child-mage was found out. Without that network and unless the mages want to setup another Tevinter and take direct control of the nation, newborn mages will have no place to go to learn how to control their powres and will likely be killed by angry mobs.

To Meredith:
The fact that the circle is needed, does not mean it's okay to physically and/or mentally abuse, or kill mages for the sole fact that they're mages, Instead of making the circle a prison from which everyone who has two braincells to rub to together will want to escape, one should be doing their best it as comfortable as possible.
Even if you have screwy morals, then murdering all the mages is a strategically idiotic move for two reasons. For one backing someone in a corner will drive that person to acts of desperation. When that person is a walking nuclear bomb, then that is likely to result in massive loss of lives. Secondly, the mages represent a powerfull strategic option. One no nation in the DA'verse can afford to loose given the existances of blights and two hostile nations who employ mages.

Orsino never once argued to get rid of the Circle. He just wanted to get rid of Meredith.

[Raygereio]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Orsino never once argued to get rid of the Circle. He just wanted to get rid of Meredith.

Oh, right. Sorry. I'll be honest, the only real thing I remember about Orsino was his silly turn-into-a-fleshy-golem-trick. To Anders then.

[TEWR]

Raygereio wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Orsino never once argued to get rid of the Circle. He just wanted to get rid of Meredith.

Oh, right. Sorry. I'll be honest, the only real thing I remember about Orsino was his silly turn-into-a-fleshy-golem-trick. To Anders then.

I have yet to find any pro-mage person who enjoys his Harvestino transformation. I think every pro-mage player despises that scene.

[Macropodmum]

Raygereio wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Orsino never once argued to get rid of the Circle. He just wanted to get rid of Meredith.

Oh, right. Sorry. I'll be honest, the only real thing I remember about Orsino was his silly turn-into-a-fleshy-golem-trick. To Anders then.

To be honest I don't even think he really wanted Meredith gone, he just wanted to stop the persecution of mages within the circle because she saw a blood mage at every turn.  That said he didn't exactly prove her wrong when he turned to blood magic himself and turned on the very people who chose to stand and protect them, if he hadn't of done this he may have lived long enough to see that Meredith herself was insane. 

[Ryzaki]

Eh. I'm pro templar because my Hawke really doesn't want to fight a losing battle for a bunch of people he doesn't know. (As he sees it anyway). Bethany's either a warden or dead or he's a mage himself and doesn't feel like drawing unnecessary attention to his mageness. And no he's not a coward he just doesn't see the point in sticking his neck out for people who wouldn't do the same for him. 

Meredith then threatens him and yeah...decision made. 

Hawke's not my Shepard able to blow things up and be the perfect hero. He can't do the Shepard Shuffle. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 juillet 2011 - 05:50 .

[GodWood]

blazeking416 wrote...
Now if you choose Templars, IT will probably will result in a **** like state and jews will be the mages result in a massive genocide.

Why?

Aleast 30% of the world's population will die and femine will be increasingly common.

Why?

Ferelden will become like a **** germany and strong country.

 Why?

More will die and either hawke or somebody else be playing hilter role.

Why?

A whole race will die if the arishok don't pervent this ffrom happen.

Why would a whole race die and why would the Arishok be the one to prevent it? 

Long drawn out war between the 4 races ( humans, elves, dwarves, quarni).

Why?

Humans will likely pair with the dwarves and elves and quarni together.

Why?

What is your reasoning for these .... conclusions?

Modifié par GodWood, 05 juillet 2011 - 05:49 .

[Macropodmum]

Ryzaki wrote...

 Bethany's either a warden or dead  

She was neither in my game, she was at the circle when this all went down and fought beside me in the final battle, and there was no way was I going to allow mass murder on innocent people including my only sister

[TEWR]

@Godwood: I lol'd at all the 'Why?'s

[Ryzaki]

Macropodmum wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

 Bethany's either a warden or dead  

She was neither in my game, she was at the circle when this all went down and fought beside me in the final battle, and there was no way was I going to allow mass murder on innocent people including my only sister

 

Yeah I was talking about my Hawke's reasoning and situation. I know others peoples Hawkes are different. 

I'd be able to kill Bethany if they didn't force Hawke to let Meredith do it. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 juillet 2011 - 06:18 .

[Macropodmum]

Ryzaki wrote...

[I'd be able to kill Bethany if they didn't force Hawke to let Meredith do it. 

So glad you are not my sibling

[Ryzaki]

Macropodmum wrote...
So glad you are not my sibling

 

It's a game. And siblings kill each other all the time. 

Would make a great amount of drama. Sadly Meredith kills all drama and just gives me rage. 

[megski]

Macropodmum wrote...
And as much as I enjoyed DA2 I think that this was it's biggest let down, the ending was always going to happen the way it does and our actions seem pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.  

This pretty much sums up the way I feel.  

I usually side with the mages, because for some reason I feel like its the right thing to do.  However, with the things that I saw in the game, and mages turning on me that I had helped, I don't necessarily think that a majority of them didn't deserve punishment.  I don't think its right to think of the happenings in Kirkwall as something that could influence the rest of Thedas, everything in Kirkwall was just, well, a fiasco really.  

I do think that the rules should be rewritten for mages.  I was really bummed out in Origins when Wynne talked about a son she never got to see again.  That broke my heart, very sad.  

[Macropodmum]

megski wrote...

Macropodmum wrote...
And as much as I enjoyed DA2 I think that this was it's biggest let down, the ending was always going to happen the way it does and our actions seem pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.  

This pretty much sums up the way I feel.  

I usually side with the mages, because for some reason I feel like its the right thing to do.  However, with the things that I saw in the game, and mages turning on me that I had helped, I don't necessarily think that a majority of them didn't deserve punishment.  I don't think its right to think of the happenings in Kirkwall as something that could influence the rest of Thedas, everything in Kirkwall was just, well, a fiasco really.  

I do think that the rules should be rewritten for mages.  I was really bummed out in Origins when Wynne talked about a son she never got to see again.  That broke my heart, very sad.  

Some of them certainly deserved punishment for sure and I think you are right, I don't believe this would have influenced the rest of Thedas (unless Merideths influence was to spread).  I think that what happened in Kirkwall was the result of too much oppression and suffering, most people will accept a certain amount of oppression (take a look at what your local government deems fair for you) but when it becomes tyrannical then a revolt is always the result (many cases through history i.e Marie Antoinette, Idi Amin, Hitler) because the people cannot be pressed any further.  Had Meredith been removed early in the picture and there were no rogue templar making innocent mages tranquil then I doubt very much it would have ended the same...

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think what stands out to me about the final choice was that it wasn't necessarily a compelte representation of the larger Mage-Templar conflict. My first Hawke supported the mages against Meredith without hesitation but probably would prefer to support Templars in a larger scale rebellion if forced to choose. Just because someone believes that the Circle shouldn't be killed for an outsiders' actions doesn't necessarily mean they think all mages should be free.

[Zjarcal]

Macropodmum wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

[I'd be able to kill Bethany if they didn't force Hawke to let Meredith do it. 

So glad you are not my sibling

Tell me about it. I'm sure someone also probably laments not being able to kill Leandra by themselves.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 05 juillet 2011 - 06:54 .

[GodWood]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
@Godwood: I lol'd at all the 'Why?'s

You're welcome

[Rifneno]

blazeking416 wrote...

In dragon age 2 towards the end when you choose between mages and templars. Who would you choose? Remember the repercuations of you choice.

Mages. Adamantly.

Raygereio wrote...

If you're giving me a real choice then I choose neither since both sides are short sighted and thus wrong.

Orsino is not every mage, and Meredith is not every templar.

Macropodmum wrote...

To be honest I don't even think he really wanted Meredith gone, he just wanted to stop the persecution of mages within the circle because she saw a blood mage at every turn. That said he didn't exactly prove her wrong when he turned to blood magic himself and turned on the very people who chose to stand and protect them, if he hadn't of done this he may have lived long enough to see that Meredith herself was insane.

His harvester thing made perfect sense on the templar ending. But the problem is, they wanted everything to end up the same no matter which side you pick. So Orsino has to go crazy for no reason in the mage ending and Cullen has to be BFFs with a hardcore anti-templar Hawke.

Dragon Age 2: The Prologue.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

@Godwood: I lol'd at all the 'Why?'s

Ever spent a day with a 3 year old? It gets less funny each time.

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd be able to kill Bethany if they didn't force Hawke to let Meredith do it.

I'll really never understand what makes people want to RP a monster...

[TEWR]

Ever spent a day with a 3 year old? It gets less funny each time.

lol no I know. I've spent a lot more than just a day with 3 year olds. My little brother who's 7 is really bad when he just goes "Mum. Mum. Mum. Mum." most of the day.