64 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

blazeking416 wrote...
Now if you choose Templars, IT will probably will result in a **** like state and jews will be the mages result in a massive genocide. Aleast 30% of the world's population will die and femine will be increasingly common. Ferelden will become like a **** germany and strong country.  More will die and either hawke or somebody else be playing hilter role. A whole race will die if the arishok don't pervent this ffrom happen. Long drawn out war between the 4 races ( humans, elves, dwarves, quarni). Humans will likely pair with the dwarves and elves and quarni together.

Am I missing something?  Even if all the Circles are annulled, how in the heck does that equate to 30% of the population?

I think you missed the fact that the mage-templar war happens no matter who you side with.

[Macropodmum]

Rifneno wrote...

[Ever spent a day with a 3 year old? It gets less funny each time.   .

Sadly so very true

Rifneno wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd be able to kill Bethany if they didn't force Hawke to let Meredith do it.

I'll really never understand what makes people want to RP a monster...

After 4 years of study and a psychology degree as well I still have no answer for that (no offense meant)

Modifié par Macropodmum, 05 juillet 2011 - 07:17 .

[Ryzaki]

You don't have to be a monster to kill your sibling Riferno. 

To let Meredith do it on the other hand...just bleh. There's no class in that scene. 

As for why it's a game. It's interesting to do things I wouldn't normally do in RL. I don't understand people who act all sensitive like the pixels are actual people. They're toys to me. No more no less.  
They might make me cry or laugh but it's no different than an entertaining trick. Thus why the comparisons to actual suffering and genocide will always boggle me. (well not the comparisons but how utterly upset some people get.) That said I did overreact to the choice of selling out Fenris though I'm slowly detaching that from my own experiences and looking at it somewhat logically. 

 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 juillet 2011 - 07:30 .

[GodWood]

I actually quite liked Leliana and Wynne in DA:O and yet I killed both of them

Why you ask?

DRAMA!

[Foolsfolly]

Ryzaki wrote...

You don't have to be a monster to kill your sibling Riferno. 

As for why it's a game. It's interesting to do things I wouldn't normally do in RL. I don't understand people who act all sensitive like the pixels are actual people. They're toys. No more no less. 

Exactly, the American Civil War is often referred to stateside as the war of brother against brother. The act of killing your sibling can be a very emotional and moving story...if properly told.

Now, slaughtering Bethany as she's defenseless, innocent, and surrendering...well, I'm pretty sure that's a war crime in real life.

[Ryzaki]

Foolsfolly wrote...
Exactly, the American Civil War is often referred to stateside as the war of brother against brother. The act of killing your sibling can be a very emotional and moving story...if properly told.

Now, slaughtering Bethany as she's defenseless, innocent, and surrendering...well, I'm pretty sure that's a war crime in real life.

 

It really can. It's my fav kind of tale. Right before best friends having to turn on one another. 

That though...it is pretty difficult to do. It would be a lot easier if she was angry and lashing out. But she just...accepts it. 

The only thing that makes that undoable for me even with her surrender is the skeezy way Meredith kicks her off her sword. No respect for her opponent at all. Disgusting. I mean that just tapdanced all over my tolerance line. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 juillet 2011 - 07:34 .

[Raygereio]

Rifneno wrote...

Raygere wrote...
If you're giving me a real choice then I choose neither since both sides are short sighted and thus wrong.

Orsino is not every mage, and Meredith is not every templar.

Erm, that's sort of the point of my post. All we got to choose from are the two extreme viewpoints.
Also, I originally should have said Anders instead of Orsino, since the latter isn't the extremist opposite Meredith.

Modifié par Raygereio, 05 juillet 2011 - 07:38 .

[megski]

Macropodmum wrote...


Some of them certainly deserved punishment for sure and I think you are right, I don't believe this would have influenced the rest of Thedas (unless Merideths influence was to spread).  I think that what happened in Kirkwall was the result of too much oppression and suffering, most people will accept a certain amount of oppression (take a look at what your local government deems fair for you) but when it becomes tyrannical then a revolt is always the result (many cases through history i.e Marie Antoinette, Idi Amin, Hitler) because the people cannot be pressed any further.  Had Meredith been removed early in the picture and there were no rogue templar making innocent mages tranquil then I doubt very much it would have ended the same...

I was just left so confused when the events at the end of the game unfolded.  I was really hurt by Anders, after that I was certain there was no one to trust.  If Bethany wasn't as sweet as she was, I believe I would have sided with the templars every time.  I knew there was at least ONE mage that wasn't bad.  I think that Meredith's paranoia was to blame, along with all of the other issues going on.  From the get-go I compared the circle in Kirkwall to the one in Ferelden.  Something was definitely wrong.  That still doesn't excuse the actions of some of the mages though.  I do think you're right, there wouldn't have been an issue if the corrupted had been removed.  I will point out too, a first enchanter with a backbone would have helped.  I felt like Orsino was a victim too, until the end with the whole knowing about the horrible blood magic frankenstein crap.  After that I was like, 'damn, bethany REALLY IS the only decent mage around.'.  

As for the role-playing a monster thing, I'm not sure about that either.  The first rpg I ever played was KOTOR, my husband and me played it together at our first place.  I was a sith up until Jolie, then I couldn't do the evil deeds anymore.  He however, continues to be an evil doosh.  My love interests never fair well in these games, poor Alistair:unsure:.  Its all right though, Carth got away.  It was soooo funny watching him chase Carth down the beach to no avail.  I still rub that in his face.  Good ol' bioware.  (I hope some one has played kotor, haha).  

[Ryzaki]

Ha! Carth.

The irony for all the male players that hated him was you could only kill him as a DS female who romanced him XD.

[Raygereio]

Ryzaki wrote...
The irony for all the male players that hated him was you could only kill him as a DS female who romanced him XD.

I have to say I was rather please that I could kill him in Mass Effect 1. With a nuke no less.

Edit. That was unfair of me. The characters of Carth and Kaiden aren't really similar. It's just the VA that's the same.

Modifié par Raygereio, 05 juillet 2011 - 07:43 .

[megski]

Raygereio wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
The irony for all the male players that hated him was you could only kill him as a DS female who romanced him XD.

I have to say I was rather please that I could kill him in Mass Effect 1. With a nuke no less.

Edit. That was unfair of me. The characters of Carth and Kaiden aren't really similar. It's just the VA that's the same.

Really?!  He's playing through me1 right now for the first time...I'm never going to hear the end of it!<_<

edit: I'm a dummy!

Modifié par megski, 05 juillet 2011 - 10:41 .

[Macropodmum]

megski wrote...

  After that I was like, 'damn, bethany REALLY IS the only decent mage around.'.  

Lol. actually I passed some on the way to the gallows that were not using blood magic to defend themselves so I'm guessing there are more than just Bethany

megski wrote...

As for the role-playing a monster thing, I'm not sure about that either.  The first rpg I ever played was KOTOR, my husband and me played it together at our first place.  I was a sith up until Jolie, then I couldn't do the evil deeds anymore.  He however, continues to be an evil doosh. 

Lol sounds like us, my husband plays and mods Fallout but he played it though about 4 or 5 times first, on one of his playthroughs I believe he decided to side with the slavers, something I could never have brought myself to do

[Ryzaki]

Raygereio wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
The irony for all the male players that hated him was you could only kill him as a DS female who romanced him XD.

I have to say I was rather please that I could kill him in Mass Effect 1. With a nuke no less.

Edit. That was unfair of me. The characters of Carth and Kaiden aren't really similar. It's just the VA that's the same.

 

Nice edit.  

Carth and Kaidan aren't similar at all. Kaidan's far more boring for one thing. 

So nope only my female darth Revan can end Carth's life.  

As for fallout. I can't side with the Legion because they're sexist. It's not the slavery, the rampant murder. Nope. The sheer sexism is what makes me wanna kick them in the face .

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 juillet 2011 - 07:47 .

[Rifneno]

Macropodmum wrote...

After 4 years of study and a psychology degree as well I still have no answer for that (no offense meant)

Look at it this way, you're still miles ahead of most psychology students because you know you don't have the answer for everything after watching two episodes of Maury.

Ryzaki wrote...

You don't have to be a monster to kill your sibling Riferno.

Yes, you DO have to be a monster to murder Bethany. And frankly, it's fairly concerning that you don't realize that. It's one thing to RP an evil character, it's another to not get that the character is evil.

Thus why the comparisons to actual suffering and genocide will always boggle me. (well not the comparisons but how utterly upset some people get.)

That... that's kind of the entire point of an RPG.

Raygereio wrote...

Erm, that's sort of the point of my post. All we got to choose from are the two extreme viewpoints.
Also, I originally should have said Anders instead of Orsino, since the latter isn't the extremist opposite Meredith.

That's still not the choice we get in game. We don't get "fight to set the mages free or fight to keep the dangerous elements safely away from the defenseless citizens." We get "defend a group of people being butchered for something they didn't do or help commit small scale genocide."

megski wrote...

I will point out too, a first enchanter with a backbone would have helped. I felt like Orsino was a victim too, until the end with the whole knowing about the horrible blood magic frankenstein crap.

People blame Orsino for too much. Yes, he didn't report Quentin once he found out what a lunatic he was. A lot of people wouldn't have. He said he didn't do it because he knew Meredith would use it as an excuse to bring the hammer down on the Circle. And he was right. That parasite was looking for any excuse she could to further her abuse and even flat out murder them all; if things didn't eventually blow up (no pun intended) anyway it's quite possible that Orsino would've actually *saved* a great many lives by letting Quentin go. Likewise, people say he was to blame for not letting Meredith search the mage's quarters unchecked. I say they're not taking a look at the whole picture. Karl was made tranquil for writing a letter saying "this place sucks." Samson was kicked out of the templars and left to die a slow, cruel death of lyrium withdrawal because he was delivering a letter from a mage to his old sweetheart on the outside. It's a shame the templars don't bring the hammer down on, say, rape like they do on postal service. But see, that kind of thing is why Orsino objected. People are worse than killed for the minorest offenses. He'd be betraying the mages in his care if he didn't at least argue against the search.

Raygereio wrote...

I have to say I was rather please that I could kill him in Mass Effect 1. With a nuke no less.

Edit. That was unfair of me. The characters of Carth and Kaiden aren't really similar. It's just the VA that's the same.

Fenris ruined Balthier.

[Macropodmum]

Rifneno wrote...

Macropodmum wrote...

After 4 years of study and a psychology degree as well I still have no answer for that (no offense meant)

Look at it this way, you're still miles ahead of most psychology students because you know you don't have the answer for everything after watching two episodes of Maury.  

Lol yes, I probably should have mentioned however that I have already spent half a lifetime figuring out what makes people tic

Rifneno wrote...

megski wrote...

I will point out too, a first enchanter with a backbone would have helped. I felt like Orsino was a victim too, until the end with the whole knowing about the horrible blood magic frankenstein crap.

People blame Orsino for too much. Yes, he didn't report Quentin once he found out what a lunatic he was. A lot of people wouldn't have. He said he didn't do it because he knew Meredith would use it as an excuse to bring the hammer down on the Circle. And he was right. That parasite was looking for any excuse she could to further her abuse and even flat out murder them all; if things didn't eventually blow up (no pun intended) anyway it's quite possible that Orsino would've actually *saved* a great many lives by letting Quentin go. Likewise, people say he was to blame for not letting Meredith search the mage's quarters unchecked. I say they're not taking a look at the whole picture. Karl was made tranquil for writing a letter saying "this place sucks." Samson was kicked out of the templars and left to die a slow, cruel death of lyrium withdrawal because he was delivering a letter from a mage to his old sweetheart on the outside. It's a shame the templars don't bring the hammer down on, say, rape like they do on postal service. But see, that kind of thing is why Orsino objected. People are worse than killed for the minorest offenses. He'd be betraying the mages in his care if he didn't at least argue against the search.

I really liked Orsino and I think he did what anyone trying to protect their charges would do in his place, it was a crying shame they made him turn to blood magic.  I still think this whole uprising business (what was it? Chantries ablaze everywhere?)  along with the dissapearances of both warden and champion has something to do with an upcoming installment.

[megski]

Macropodmum wrote...

megski wrote...

  After that I was like, 'damn, bethany REALLY IS the only decent mage around.'.  

Lol. actually I passed some on the way to the gallows that were not using blood magic to defend themselves so I'm guessing there are more than just Bethany

megski wrote...

As for the role-playing a monster thing, I'm not sure about that either.  The first rpg I ever played was KOTOR, my husband and me played it together at our first place.  I was a sith up until Jolie, then I couldn't do the evil deeds anymore.  He however, continues to be an evil doosh. 

Lol sounds like us, my husband plays and mods Fallout but he played it though about 4 or 5 times first, on one of his playthroughs I believe he decided to side with the slavers, something I could never have brought myself to do

Haha, I think I was distraught my first time through the gallows.  We tried playing fable 3 together.  We got married in the game, he made me live in a caravan then sold it while our baby was in it.  i divorced him haha.  

[Sylvius the Mad]

blazeking416 wrote...

In dragon age 2 towards the end when you choose between mages and templars. Who would you choose? Remember the repercuations of you choice.

There's your problem right there.

When making the decision, you can't know what the repercussions of your choice will be.  That's foreknowledge.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Macropodmum wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd be able to kill Bethany if they didn't force Hawke to let Meredith do it.

I'll really never understand what makes people want to RP a monster...

After 4 years of study and a psychology degree as well I still have no answer for that (no offense meant)

Why do you assume they are monsters at all?

Is it so hard to imagine that a person's perspective and experiences might be so different from yours as to produce choices which you could never make, but seems perfectly reasonable and defensible to him?

[Rifneno]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Why do you assume they are monsters at all?

Is it so hard to imagine that a person's perspective and experiences might be so different from yours as to produce choices which you could never make, but seems perfectly reasonable and defensible to him?

Because murdering a loyal and loving sibling in cold blood is an evil thing to do. End of story. No amount of "we grew up differently" justifies such an act.

[Ryzaki]

Right. Riferno you and I aren't gonna agree.  Like always. 

One doesn't have to be a monster to kill Bethany in my view. You may think differently but well *shrugs* that's your perogative. 

As for the point of an RPG (or indeed any game). Huh. I always thought the point was to have fun not point fingers at other people for their choice of what they did in a fictional realm and try to tell them what kind of character they're playing. Silly me I suppose. 

That said what's evil obviously varies from person to person. Plenty of people here think that Anders' actions were evil. Some think they were good. Others neutral. 

Very few things are unjustifiable in my eyes. Some things need damn good reasoning but that doesn't make it unjustified. 

But this'll go nowhere so I'll agree to disagree. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 juillet 2011 - 11:49 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Rifneno wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Why do you assume they are monsters at all?

Is it so hard to imagine that a person's perspective and experiences might be so different from yours as to produce choices which you could never make, but seems perfectly reasonable and defensible to him?

Because murdering a loyal and loving sibling in cold blood is an evil thing to do. End of story. No amount of "we grew up differently" justifies such an act.

That certainly answers my question.

Do you ever play characters who differ meaningfully from you?

[Rifneno]

Ryzaki wrote...

Right. Riferno you and I aren't gonna agree. Like always.

One doesn't have to be a monster to kill Bethany in my view. You may think differently but well *shrugs* that's your perogative.

As for the point of an RPG (or indeed any game). Huh. I always thought the point was to have fun not point fingers at other people for their choice of what they did in a fictional realm. Silly me I suppose.

I love how you keep defending the decision, then complain you're being judged for it. Obviously, again I stress obviously, the issue wasn't that you did something evil in a game it's that you don't seem to realize it was evil. If I went up to my nephew playing Grand Theft Auto and expressed horror when he gunned down a cop, he'd just snicker and say "I know, right?" and keep playing. He understands that isn't okay to do and that it's just a game. This doesn't seem to be the case with you murdering Bethany.

That said what's evil obviously varies from person to person. Plenty of people here think that Anders' actions were evil. Some think they were good. Others neutral.

Right and wrong don't vary from person to person. Perception of right and wrong varies. Massive difference. Right and wrong is not an opinion, it's a fact. Many people are just plain wrong. Maybe I am, I can only take my best analysis of a situation and make a judgment call like anyone else. But if I am, it's not because the very concept of ethics is malleable, it's because I made a mistake.

[Rifneno]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

That certainly answers my question.

Do you ever play characters who differ meaningfully from you?

Rarely. I tried it a few times and just didn't care for it.