483 réponses à ce sujet

[MonkeyKaboom]

Siansonea II wrote...
Hmmm, I think even Dead Kaidan outranks Prisoner Shepard, the former Alliance hero turned Cerberus lackey.

Except that Shep hasn't been stripped of rank and isn't in prison.  And since he was acting as a spectre outside of both Citadel and thus Alliance jurisdiction there is nothing he can be charged of.

[Siansonea]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Furthermore, Shep retains his rank even through death. According to military custom once and officer always an officer. Rank is retained both in retirement and death.

Pish and tosh. The Alliance never found a body, he was MIA, and presumed dead. It's obvious he faked his own death, though, since two years later he's rockin' a Cerberus logo on his ship. Yeah, Shepard, you can't go freelancing for Cerberus, while allowing the Alliance to think you were dead for two years, and expect to get your old job back by snapping your fingers. Sorry pal, I know you did a bang-up job with that nasty business on the Citadel a couple of years ago, but two years of working for Cerberus is a bitter pill indeed.

[Siansonea]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Hmmm, I think even Dead Kaidan outranks Prisoner Shepard, the former Alliance hero turned Cerberus lackey.

Except that Shep hasn't been stripped of rank and isn't in prison.  And since he was acting as a spectre outside of both Citadel and thus Alliance jurisdiction there is nothing he can be charged of.

Yeah, Hackett and Anderson seem willing to play ball with Shepard, but I wonder, will Mikhailovich? Will the other admirals? How many of them were good friends with Kahoku? How many of them are going to just shrug their shoulders because Shepard decided to sleep with the enemy for two years?

Modifié par Siansonea II, 06 juillet 2011 - 04:29 .

[Raiil]

Siansonea II wrote...

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Hmmm, I think even Dead Kaidan outranks Prisoner Shepard, the former Alliance hero turned Cerberus lackey.

Except that Shep hasn't been stripped of rank and isn't in prison.  And since he was acting as a spectre outside of both Citadel and thus Alliance jurisdiction there is nothing he can be charged of.

Yeah, Hackett and Anderson seem willing to play ball with Shepard, but I wonder, will Mikhailovich? Will the other admirals? How many of them were good friends with Kahoku? How many of them are going to just shrug their shoulders because Shepard decided to sleep with the enemy for two years?

Well, most political/revenge-orientated issues are going to be blown out the airlock as soon as the Reapers hit, and Shepard's going to look mightly justified for bedding with Cerberus since it turns out they (Shepard, not Cerberus) were right all along.

Shepard can be stripped of rank, yes, but then what? If you (editorial you) want an 'okay, now what?' scenario, the Normandy is flown and operated by a pilot and an AI who are wholly and totally loyal to Shepard, not the Alliance, and Shepard has at least three people firmly in their camp- any survivors from the SM and Liara. If Shepard rejects Alliance authority- and seeing as they were considered KIA and never officially reinstated into the military, they can pull this card- and leaves, stealing Alliance property is not going to top the 's--t we're arresting you for' list. (Not saying the Alliance is going to accept the 'you have no authority over me' response, just stating it as a possibility for a Shepard to state.) Being a human =/= being under Alliance authority, seeing as people colonise the Terminus systems just to get out from under the Alliance thumb.

[MonkeyKaboom]

Siansonea II wrote...

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Hmmm, I think even Dead Kaidan outranks Prisoner Shepard, the former Alliance hero turned Cerberus lackey.

Except that Shep hasn't been stripped of rank and isn't in prison.  And since he was acting as a spectre outside of both Citadel and thus Alliance jurisdiction there is nothing he can be charged of.

Yeah, Hackett and Anderson seem willing to play ball with Shepard, but I wonder, will Mikhailovich? Will the other admirals? How many of them were good friends with Kahoku? How many of them are going to just shrug their shoulders because Shepard decided to sleep with the enemy for two years?

Anderson by nature of his position holds more power than any single alliance member period.  Furthermore, I wasn't aware being a dead and rotting piece of salami on a medical table for 2 years constituted treason.  The events that happened afterward were sanctioned by Representative Anderson, the highest appointed human in counsel space.  But I'm sure that won't stop you from spamming shep hate on every thread you seem to enter.  Why do you play a character you role play hate so much?

[darthnick427]

No kaiden doesn't out rank you. You are Lieutenant Comander Shepard. He is staff commander. You totally outrank him. Lieutenant Commander is one promotion shy of captian

[Lukertin]

darthnick427 wrote...

No kaiden doesn't out rank you. You are Lieutenant Comander Shepard. He is staff commander. You totally outrank him. Lieutenant Commander is one promotion shy of captian

rofl not in ME

[Siansonea]

Valentia X wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Hmmm, I think even Dead Kaidan outranks Prisoner Shepard, the former Alliance hero turned Cerberus lackey.

Except that Shep hasn't been stripped of rank and isn't in prison.  And since he was acting as a spectre outside of both Citadel and thus Alliance jurisdiction there is nothing he can be charged of.

Yeah, Hackett and Anderson seem willing to play ball with Shepard, but I wonder, will Mikhailovich? Will the other admirals? How many of them were good friends with Kahoku? How many of them are going to just shrug their shoulders because Shepard decided to sleep with the enemy for two years?

Well, most political/revenge-orientated issues are going to be blown out the airlock as soon as the Reapers hit, and Shepard's going to look mightly justified for bedding with Cerberus since it turns out they (Shepard, not Cerberus) were right all along.

Shepard can be stripped of rank, yes, but then what? If you (editorial you) want an 'okay, now what?' scenario, the Normandy is flown and operated by a pilot and an AI who are wholly and totally loyal to Shepard, not the Alliance, and Shepard has at least three people firmly in their camp- any survivors from the SM and Liara. If Shepard rejects Alliance authority- and seeing as they were considered KIA and never officially reinstated into the military, they can pull this card- and leaves, stealing Alliance property is not going to top the 's--t we're arresting you for' list. (Not saying the Alliance is going to accept the 'you have no authority over me' response, just stating it as a possibility for a Shepard to state.) Being a human =/= being under Alliance authority, seeing as people colonise the Terminus systems just to get out from under the Alliance thumb.

Well, after the Reapers hit, all hell breaks loose, and it's a whole new ball game.

But until then, Shepard has a lot to answer for. From the point of view of the Alliance, Shepard is a massive disappointment. This tool was groomed to be a Spectre, successfully became a Spectre, successfully foiled a geth attack on the Citadel, then faked his death to work for Cerberus. He didn't become a farmer on some Terminus colony, no, he chucked all his Alliance ties to work for the same people who had killed Admiral Kahoku, among many many MANY other horrible things. So, yeah, Kaidan "outranking" Shepard is a really moot point before the Reaper attack, since, well, Shepard will be lucky if the Alliance doesn't throw him in a brig or something.

After the Reaper attack, well, that's a horse of a different color. Suddenly Shepard gets to have his "I told you so" moment. And the Alliance, realizing the handbasket they're in, will send Shepard off in the Normandy SR2, along with Joker, Chakwas, Kaishley, and whomever else. I'm sure Garrus and Tali were in Shepard's pockets the whole time anyway, and Liara will show up presently. Then the game can get started, and Kaidan and Shepard can head-butt each other over the meaningless distinction of rank when the entire galaxy is falling apart around them.

[MonkeyKaboom]

Siansonea II wrote...
This tool was groomed to be a Spectre, successfully became a Spectre, successfully foiled a geth attack on the Citadel, then faked his death to work for Cerberus.

What game are you playing again?

[Siansonea]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Yeah, Hackett and Anderson seem willing to play ball with Shepard, but I wonder, will Mikhailovich? Will the other admirals? How many of them were good friends with Kahoku? How many of them are going to just shrug their shoulders because Shepard decided to sleep with the enemy for two years?

Anderson by nature of his position holds more power than any single alliance member period.  Furthermore, I wasn't aware being a dead and rotting piece of salami on a medical table for 2 years constituted treason.

A likely story, Shepard. This tribunal will not entertain ridiculous tales of death and resurrection. Are you Space Jesus now Shepard? What nuggets of wisdom did you bring back from the Great Beyond?

The events that happened afterward were sanctioned by Representative Anderson, the highest appointed human in counsel space.  But I'm sure that won't stop you from spamming shep hate on every thread you seem to enter.  Why do you play a character you role play hate so much?

Hmmm, Shepard doesn't ever HAVE to talk to Anderson at all. Shepard doesn't ever HAVE to visit the Citadel at all. Shepard doesn't HAVE to do much of anything, except what the Illusive Man tells him.

And I don't hate Shepard, I hate Cerberus. Or, more specifically, I hate that Paragon Shepard is duped into doing Cerberus' bidding so easily, in spite of all the awful things we know about Cerberus, many of which Shepard witnessed first-hand. Shepard was a huge idiot to work for Cerberus without exhausting every other possibility FIRST, but Shepard just says "oh, okay" after TIM makes his suave pitch. But because he's the Player Character, everybody expects the Alliance to just take him back with open arms, like nothing happened. <_<

[Lord Coake]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
This tool was groomed to be a Spectre, successfully became a Spectre, successfully foiled a geth attack on the Citadel, then faked his death to work for Cerberus.

What game are you playing again?

Devils Advocate.

[Siansonea]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
This tool was groomed to be a Spectre, successfully became a Spectre, successfully foiled a geth attack on the Citadel, then faked his death to work for Cerberus.

What game are you playing again?

I'm not playing a game, I'm an Alliance Admiral, who's evaluating Shepard's status in the Alliance. You are being very metagame in your thinking, but from the point of view of the Alliance, everything Shepard says sounds like B.S. But you can't put yourself in their place, you think people are supposed to make decisions based on things they couldn't possibly know about, simply because YOU know about them. It don't work like that, pal.

[Ryzaki]

Honestly I'll be so happy if the alliance treats Shep like crap and then at the end of ME3 Shep can expose all their dirty secrets and have them be a galaxy wide social pariah. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 juillet 2011 - 04:56 .

[Siansonea]

Lord Coake wrote...

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
This tool was groomed to be a Spectre, successfully became a Spectre, successfully foiled a geth attack on the Citadel, then faked his death to work for Cerberus.

What game are you playing again?

Devils Advocate.

Good one! Much better than my answer.

[Lord Coake]

Siansonea II wrote...

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Yeah, Hackett and Anderson seem willing to play ball with Shepard, but I wonder, will Mikhailovich? Will the other admirals? How many of them were good friends with Kahoku? How many of them are going to just shrug their shoulders because Shepard decided to sleep with the enemy for two years?

Anderson by nature of his position holds more power than any single alliance member period.  Furthermore, I wasn't aware being a dead and rotting piece of salami on a medical table for 2 years constituted treason.

A likely story, Shepard. This tribunal will not entertain ridiculous tales of death and resurrection. Are you Space Jesus now Shepard? What nuggets of wisdom did you bring back from the Great Beyond?

The events that happened afterward were sanctioned by Representative Anderson, the highest appointed human in counsel space.  But I'm sure that won't stop you from spamming shep hate on every thread you seem to enter.  Why do you play a character you role play hate so much?

Hmmm, Shepard doesn't ever HAVE to talk to Anderson at all. Shepard doesn't ever HAVE to visit the Citadel at all. Shepard doesn't HAVE to do much of anything, except what the Illusive Man tells him.

And I don't hate Shepard, I hate Cerberus. Or, more specifically, I hate that Paragon Shepard is duped into doing Cerberus' bidding so easily, in spite of all the awful things we know about Cerberus, many of which Shepard witnessed first-hand. Shepard was a huge idiot to work for Cerberus without exhausting every other possibility FIRST, but Shepard just says "oh, okay" after TIM makes his suave pitch. But because he's the Player Character, everybody expects the Alliance to just take him back with open arms, like nothing happened. <_<

That's more slapdash railroading from the writers than anything else.  Same goes for not having any "**** off Cerberus" situation or dislog at all until the end of ME2.

[Lord Coake]

Siansonea II wrote...

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
This tool was groomed to be a Spectre, successfully became a Spectre, successfully foiled a geth attack on the Citadel, then faked his death to work for Cerberus.

What game are you playing again?

I'm not playing a game, I'm an Alliance Admiral, who's evaluating Shepard's status in the Alliance. You are being very metagame in your thinking, but from the point of view of the Alliance, everything Shepard says sounds like B.S. But you can't put yourself in their place, you think people are supposed to make decisions based on things they couldn't possibly know about, simply because YOU know about them. It don't work like that, pal.

One big ace in Shepard's hand would be to simply volunteer for a very deep penetration medical scan.  And if one is playing a Paragon Shepard, there is also the sending of detailed Cerberus information to Alliance Command and the destruction of the Collector Base.

Not a magazine full of silver bullets by any means, but it's enough casts doubt on Shepard's detractors.  Enough in fact, that it's unlikely any treason charges could stick, and more than enough to keep Shepard in place both on the Normandy, and as a general asset.  An asset under very, VERY close supervision (read: VS and Vega) but an asset nonetheless.

Modifié par Lord Coake, 06 juillet 2011 - 05:02 .

[Siansonea]

Lord Coake wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Yeah, Hackett and Anderson seem willing to play ball with Shepard, but I wonder, will Mikhailovich? Will the other admirals? How many of them were good friends with Kahoku? How many of them are going to just shrug their shoulders because Shepard decided to sleep with the enemy for two years?

Anderson by nature of his position holds more power than any single alliance member period.  Furthermore, I wasn't aware being a dead and rotting piece of salami on a medical table for 2 years constituted treason.

A likely story, Shepard. This tribunal will not entertain ridiculous tales of death and resurrection. Are you Space Jesus now Shepard? What nuggets of wisdom did you bring back from the Great Beyond?

The events that happened afterward were sanctioned by Representative Anderson, the highest appointed human in counsel space.  But I'm sure that won't stop you from spamming shep hate on every thread you seem to enter.  Why do you play a character you role play hate so much?

Hmmm, Shepard doesn't ever HAVE to talk to Anderson at all. Shepard doesn't ever HAVE to visit the Citadel at all. Shepard doesn't HAVE to do much of anything, except what the Illusive Man tells him.

And I don't hate Shepard, I hate Cerberus. Or, more specifically, I hate that Paragon Shepard is duped into doing Cerberus' bidding so easily, in spite of all the awful things we know about Cerberus, many of which Shepard witnessed first-hand. Shepard was a huge idiot to work for Cerberus without exhausting every other possibility FIRST, but Shepard just says "oh, okay" after TIM makes his suave pitch. But because he's the Player Character, everybody expects the Alliance to just take him back with open arms, like nothing happened. <_<

That's more slapdash railroading from the writers than anything else.  Same goes for not having any "**** off Cerberus" situation or dislog at all until the end of ME2.

I agree, but there's a price to pay for that railroading, and Shepard's going to have to pay it somehow. The whole Cerberus thing in ME2 had BAD IDEA written all over it in big shiny letters, but that's the way the ball bounced, and now we're in a situation where Shepard's bright shiny reputation is in the toilet. Honestly, it's an opportunity for some great drama, so I'm not complaining too much. I loved that Kaidan/Ashley and Tela Vasir called out Shepard for being a traitor by working for Cerberus, because he totally was from their point of view. Shepard may "know the truth", but they don't, and it looks really really bad for Shepard to anyone who isn't on the outside looking in from an "omniscient observer" point of view.

[Siansonea]

Lord Coake wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
This tool was groomed to be a Spectre, successfully became a Spectre, successfully foiled a geth attack on the Citadel, then faked his death to work for Cerberus.

What game are you playing again?

I'm not playing a game, I'm an Alliance Admiral, who's evaluating Shepard's status in the Alliance. You are being very metagame in your thinking, but from the point of view of the Alliance, everything Shepard says sounds like B.S. But you can't put yourself in their place, you think people are supposed to make decisions based on things they couldn't possibly know about, simply because YOU know about them. It don't work like that, pal.

One big ace in Shepard's hand would be to simply volunteer for a very deep penetration medical scan.  And if one is playing a Paragon Shepard, there is also the sending of detailed Cerberus information to Alliance Command and the destruction of the Collector Base.

Not a magazine full of silver bullets by any means, but it's enough casts doubt on Shepard's detractors.  Enough in fact, that it's unlikely any treason charges could stick, and more than enough to keep Shepard in place both on the Normandy, and as a general asset.  An asset under very, VERY close supervision (read: VS and Vega) but an asset nonetheless.

I'll buy that. Paragon Shepard really should be very accommodating to the Alliance, since he should be able to see that their concerns are totally justified, and that he has to prove himself. Renedouche Shepard, well, I don't know how that would play out. More than likely he'd mess everything up, and Anderson would make these suggestions.

[Lord Coake]

Siansonea II wrote...

I agree, but there's a price to pay for that railroading, and Shepard's going to have to pay it somehow. The whole Cerberus thing in ME2 had BAD IDEA written all over it in big shiny letters, but that's the way the ball bounced, and now we're in a situation where Shepard's bright shiny reputation is in the toilet. Honestly, it's an opportunity for some great drama, so I'm not complaining too much. I loved that Kaidan/Ashley and Tela Vasir called out Shepard for being a traitor by working for Cerberus, because he totally was from their point of view. Shepard may "know the truth", but they don't, and it looks really really bad for Shepard to anyone who isn't on the outside looking in from an "omniscient observer" point of view.

Thing is...it really doesn't fly for the Virmire Survivor all that well.  Ashley/Kaidan know full well what the stakes are, but unlike enery other ME1 squadmate, seem fully comfortable sticking their heads in the sand.

ADDENDUM: Admittedly, the storm of emotions on Horizon didn't do anyone any favors, and the letter Shep gets afterwards shows that under cooler circumstances, the meeting would have gone better.  And more slapdash wirting for the dialog was outright pathetic.

Modifié par Lord Coake, 06 juillet 2011 - 05:09 .

[Augustei]

Sjaddix wrote...

This is easy. U were talking to Anderson before u got on your ship. U just tell Kaidan that u were field promoted and Anderson personally put u in charge of this ship. What is Kaidan gonna say?

This made me lol, I can just imagine shepard convincing the whole normandy crew he got promoted to rear admiral or something

[Raiil]

Ryzaki wrote...

Honestly I'll be so happy if the alliance treats Shep like crap and then at the end of ME3 Shep can expose all their dirty secrets and have them be a galaxy wide social pariah. 

Are you me? I'm completely RPing that my Shepard is going against the Alliance and wants to give them what for.

[Siansonea]

Lord Coake wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I agree, but there's a price to pay for that railroading, and Shepard's going to have to pay it somehow. The whole Cerberus thing in ME2 had BAD IDEA written all over it in big shiny letters, but that's the way the ball bounced, and now we're in a situation where Shepard's bright shiny reputation is in the toilet. Honestly, it's an opportunity for some great drama, so I'm not complaining too much. I loved that Kaidan/Ashley and Tela Vasir called out Shepard for being a traitor by working for Cerberus, because he totally was from their point of view. Shepard may "know the truth", but they don't, and it looks really really bad for Shepard to anyone who isn't on the outside looking in from an "omniscient observer" point of view.

Thing is...it really doesn't fly for the Virmire Survivor all that well.  Ashley/Kaidan know full well what the stakes are, but unlike enery other ME1 squadmate, seem fully comfortable sticking their heads in the sand.

ADDENDUM: Admittedly, the storm of emotions on Horizon didn't do anyone any favors, and the letter Shep gets afterwards shows that under cooler circumstances, the meeting would have gone better.  And more slapdash wirting for the dialog was outright pathetic.

A lot of people take a "b¡tches be hasslin' me man!" attitude toward the Horizon encounter, because, dude, some NPC is talkin' back to me? Do they not see my face on the box? But from an in-universe standpoint, Kaidan and Ashley are 100% justified in their distrust of Cerberus, and Shepard had every opportunity to say things that could have assuaged their fears and concerns. Instead, Shepard went into Complete Derp mode with "It's been too long, Kaidan, how've you been," as if they were at some reunion party on the Citadel. And then "Hey Kaidan, I know you're a loyal Alliance soldier and all, but could you break your oath to the Alliance and come work for Cerberus? I could use someone like you on my crew, it'll be like old times." DERP! When I heard Shepard say that the first time, I wanted the option to storm into Miranda's office and ask about that "control chip" again...

[Augustei]

Ryzaki wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Thugcry01 wrote...

It's Shepard's ship. I think that alone supersedes Kaidans rank. Shep's boat, Shep's in charge.

Nope. Property of the Alliance. Seized Cerberus ship is now an Alliance asset. Shepard never owned it anyway. If the Illusive Man wants his ship back, he can try and take it. Shepard is a disgraced rogue agent, which is sad, because before he faked his death to join Cerberus, he was a bonafide war hero. It's a shame, it really is.

 

You can't steal something and then say it's yours and expect people to respect that. Especially if the person you stole it from isn't dead. 

You just described what Cerberus did with the Alliance and Normandy.. The Alliance owns the designs and design rights, Cerberus stole them and illegally built the SR2.. The Alliance having rightful and legal claim to the SR2 claims it from TIM.. the end

[Ryzaki]

XxDeonxX wrote..
You just described what Cerberus did with the Alliance and Normandy.. The Alliance owns the designs and design rights, Cerberus stole them and illegally built the SR2.. The Alliance having rightful and legal claim to the SR2 claims it from TIM.. the end

They stole the designs. Not the actual ship. They do not have rightful and legal claims to the SR2 anymore than the turians have rightful and legal claim to the Normandy's Thannix Cannon. (not to mention the ship is tweaked so it isn't a complete copy of the Normandy SR1 in the first place).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 juillet 2011 - 05:18 .

[Augustei]

Malanek999 wrote...

That is NOT how Hackett would respond to a cerberus request. If he bothered to respond it would be more like "Request Denied".

But even that is missing the point. We know Shepard gets back control of the ship with or without the alliances approval.

Source?

I seem to have missed the part where they say Shepard is in control of the normandy =P