483 réponses à ce sujet

[Augustei]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Kaidan does outrank Shepard in the Alliance Military, but he can't give him orders because Spectres don't answer to the normal chain of command. Even if he's a spectre himself, he doesn't have any technical authority over Shepard because each individual spectre answers directly to the Council. At the same though, Shepard still seems to treat superior officers with the respect they are due, or at least he has the option to. I think he or she still calls Rear Admiral Mihailovic "sir."

Yeah, with the spectre thing as well if Kaidan trys to give orders to shepard. Shepard can just mention what happened to the last Spectre that took him on =P (tela vasir)

[Tric]

Isn't it possible that Shepard's SpecTRe title was removed by the Council? If s/he still had it the Alliance wouldn't have the power to put the Commander on trial or would they?

[Augustei]

SomethingSome wrote...

Isn't it possible that Shepard's SpecTRe title was removed by the Council? If s/he still had it the Alliance wouldn't have the power to put the Commander on trial or would they?

When he destroyed that batarian system he made a war with the terminus systems a likely outcome, I wouldn't be suprised if the council fully supported Shepard being Court Marshalled or even executed. I mean they never shut up about their fear of war with the terminus systems so its safe to assume they are serious about it

[ErichHartmann]

I'd love to [punch] Kaiden. Never liked him.

[Tric]

True, they certainly make a lot of fuss about it. Guess we'll have to wait and see on this topic.

[Han Shot First]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

No, Kaidan will smile like a good little boy an listen to everything that Shepard says. Anyone who is worried about this should just relax, Bioware isn't going to take Big Dog status away from Shep.

It does however, not help with suspension of disbelief. A lower ranking officer commanding someone who outranks him makes zero sense. This does not happen in any real world military. If Kaidan outranks Shepard,  he should be in command of the Normandy, and not Shepard.

Bioware should rememedy this by having Shepard be a Staff Commander as well in ME3. It wouldn't even take that much effort, since no one in the game probably refers to him by his full rank. Both the Lt Commander and Staff Commanders are just addressed as 'Commander.' They'd only have to change his rank in the codex or personnel file, or in emails addressed to you.

[ReallyRue]

I don't think rank would matter so much on the Normandy. Certainly not to the team, who (with the exception of Vega) have followed Shepard all over the galaxy on crazy missions. I doubt they'd suddenly start listening to Kaidan instead.

And ordering Shepard about doesn't seem very... Kaidan-y.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Maybe they posthumously promoted Shepard and it just never came up in ME2?

Modifié par DaringMoosejaw, 04 juillet 2011 - 10:44 .

[Finis Valorum]

Han Shot First wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

No, Kaidan will smile like a good little boy an listen to everything that Shepard says. Anyone who is worried about this should just relax, Bioware isn't going to take Big Dog status away from Shep.

It does however, not help with suspension of disbelief. A lower ranking officer commanding someone who outranks him makes zero sense. This does not happen in any real world military. If Kaidan outranks Shepard,  he should be in command of the Normandy, and not Shepard.

Bioware should rememedy this by having Shepard be a Staff Commander as well in ME3. It wouldn't even take that much effort, since no one in the game probably refers to him by his full rank. Both the Lt Commander and Staff Commanders are just addressed as 'Commander.' They'd only have to change his rank in the codex or personnel file, or in emails addressed to you.

Like I said Hackett can most likely reinstate and field promote you to Captain if neccessary on the Citadel, so at most Kaidan will be in command for exactly one mission like Anderson was in the original game.

[PrinceLionheart]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Kaidan outranks Shepard in the Systems Alliance but if they're both Spectres they're equals - they both answer to the Council - and outside the Systems Alliance chain of command. So it doesn't matter.

If anything, it'll be just like the Shepard/Miranda dynamic in ME2.

[Alpha-Centuri]

Han Shot First wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

No, Kaidan will smile like a good little boy an listen to everything that Shepard says. Anyone who is worried about this should just relax, Bioware isn't going to take Big Dog status away from Shep.

It does however, not help with suspension of disbelief. A lower ranking officer commanding someone who outranks him makes zero sense. This does not happen in any real world military. If Kaidan outranks Shepard,  he should be in command of the Normandy, and not Shepard.

Bioware should rememedy this by having Shepard be a Staff Commander as well in ME3. It wouldn't even take that much effort, since no one in the game probably refers to him by his full rank. Both the Lt Commander and Staff Commanders are just addressed as 'Commander.' They'd only have to change his rank in the codex or personnel file, or in emails addressed to you.

It doesn't work like that (atleast not in the real world). Unless Kaiden was specifically assigned to relieve Shepard of command of the Normandy, Shepard would be the CO regardless of who is aboard. Command of naval vessels are delegated powers from naval command itself, so they are acting directly under that umbrella. In real life, you can have a sergeant command a Staff sergeant if the power was delegated from the Lt. It might be unorthodox or slightly awkward, but it happens every day in real life. Hell, corporals can make schedules that applies to all the enlisted and NCOs above.\\

Now you are right, and it gets really complicated. The military is very careful with these things, especially in terms of seniority. This situation is a little implausible because I don't think bioware wants him to be Captain. That would alleviate all the problems.

I do agree that Shepard should be promoted. This would make it easier for understanding and would be what the real military would do to alleviate this problem, rather than relying on obscure rules and what not. As well, its my opinion that Shepard should be equal or higher a paygrade as the people "under" him.

Edit: Or the following scenario:

Admiral Anderson: "I'm assigning Staff Commander Alenko to the Normandy as Alliance Liason. He is to brief and report to me, and keep you updated on Alliance HQ's plan."

Basically he would be in the role of the Political Officer that the Soviets used. They weren't under direct control, but they outranked the captain technically.

Modifié par Alpha-Centuri, 04 juillet 2011 - 11:02 .

[seirhart]

There is one thing that can happen that no one has thought of Admiral Hackett or another high ranking officer could demote kaiden or ashley. Another thing Kaiden and Ashely know shepard and I believe that though they may be out rank shepard they could defer all judgment to shepard which means they are all back to the way it was. What ever decision shepard makes they follow.

It is also up to the life form that is now the ship EDI, the ship is alive and so now that she is unshackled. It is up to her who will be in command of her the ship and the crew. If Edi doesn't like the fact that someone is trying to take command away from shepard, edi can just kill them. Of course if EDI is reshackled I shepard can just un shackle her again.

Modifié par seirhart, 04 juillet 2011 - 11:07 .

[Zkyire]

XxDeonxX wrote...

So in ME2 we find out Kaidan was promoted to the rank of Staff-Commander while Shepard is out, in ME3 apparently Ashley Williams has reached the rank of 2nd lieutenant where she was promoted to operations chief while shepard was out, so risen 1 more rank between me2 and me3 so its quite possible Kaiden may even be being cosidered or already be a Major / Captain. So with Shepard rejoining the Systems Alliance in ME3 does that mean we have to start taking orders from Kaidan now since he is out commanding officer and outranks us? or is he going to calmly step aside and let shepard take the reins of command?

I personally dont like the idea of being given orders from kaidan.. lucky for me he didn't survive Virmire and by ME3 theres still 2 ranks between Shepard and Ashley Williams =P but for those who saved Kaidan on Virmire.. What will you do if Kaidan starts giving you commands  especially those that conflict with your Shepards views?

On Kaidan giving Shepard an order:



Kaidan is Leela.

Shepard is Bender.

[CaptainZaysh]

Yeah, imagine a soldier in a war having to take orders from someone just because he had a higher rank.

[Liec]

XxDeonxX wrote...

So in ME2 we find out Kaidan was promoted to the rank of Staff-Commander while Shepard is out, in ME3 apparently Ashley Williams has reached the rank of 2nd lieutenant where she was promoted to operations chief while shepard was out, so risen 1 more rank between me2 and me3 so its quite possible Kaiden may even be being cosidered or already be a Major / Captain. So with Shepard rejoining the Systems Alliance in ME3 does that mean we have to start taking orders from Kaidan now since he is out commanding officer and outranks us? or is he going to calmly step aside and let shepard take the reins of command?

I personally dont like the idea of being given orders from kaidan.. lucky for me he didn't survive Virmire and by ME3 theres still 2 ranks between Shepard and Ashley Williams =P but for those who saved Kaidan on Virmire.. What will you do if Kaidan starts giving you commands  especially those that conflict with your Shepards views?

Why would his rank matter if the Alliance's already been defeated? 

[Han Shot First]

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

No, Kaidan will smile like a good little boy an listen to everything that Shepard says. Anyone who is worried about this should just relax, Bioware isn't going to take Big Dog status away from Shep.

It does however, not help with suspension of disbelief. A lower ranking officer commanding someone who outranks him makes zero sense. This does not happen in any real world military. If Kaidan outranks Shepard,  he should be in command of the Normandy, and not Shepard.

Bioware should rememedy this by having Shepard be a Staff Commander as well in ME3. It wouldn't even take that much effort, since no one in the game probably refers to him by his full rank. Both the Lt Commander and Staff Commanders are just addressed as 'Commander.' They'd only have to change his rank in the codex or personnel file, or in emails addressed to you.

It doesn't work like that (atleast not in the real world). Unless Kaiden was specifically assigned to relieve Shepard of command of the Normandy, Shepard would be the CO regardless of who is aboard. Command of naval vessels are delegated powers from naval command itself, so they are acting directly under that umbrella. In real life, you can have a sergeant command a Staff sergeant if the power was delegated from the Lt. It might be unorthodox or slightly awkward, but it happens every day in real life. Hell, corporals can make schedules that applies to all the enlisted and NCOs above.

Now you are right, and it gets really complicated. The military is very careful with these things, especially in terms of seniority. This situation is a little implausible because I don't think bioware wants him to be Captain. That would alleviate all the problems.

I'm a former Marine actually, so I'm aware of the difference between rank and billet. I agree that Shepard doesn't necessarily cease to be commanding officer just because someone of higher rank is aboard. But I can't see Kaidan being assigned to the Normandy as the ship's executive officer for example, with someone of a lower rank as it's commanding officer.

Using Marines as an example, you wouldn't have a Corporal as squad leader with a Sergeant as one of his fire team leaders. Say for examplet that Corporal who is running the squad, has a Corporal with less time in grade and less time in service as one of his fire team leaders. The junior Corporal however, ends up being meritoriously promoted to Sergeant, now outranking the squad leader. That Sergeant wouldn't remain a fire team leader, and thus subordinate to a Corporal. He'd end up in another billet suitable to his rank. (taking over another squad, for example)

In order to get past suspension of disbelief Bioware would have to either come up with an explanation like the ones you've given as to why he's assigned to the Normandy, but still subordinate to Shepard, or promote Shepard and make Kaidan's rank a mute point. (even though Kaidan may still have him on time in grade)

[Relix28]

Noone outranks my Shepard and gets away with it...NOONE!!!!

Wait, what?

[Merilsell]

My FemShep is actually looking forward to serve under Kaidan...

Huh... What? That wasn't meant with this question? Ops.

[essarr71]

This one is one of the silliest hissy-fits I've seen so far. We don't know the conditions the VS is on board, or the conditions that Shepard has the SR2 (was shep assigned to it? Has Shep stolen it? - They've mutinied before) and we don't know who - if anyone - Shep is working for, regardless of if Shep is still a Specter or not.

Really, now, getting panties in a twist with MONTHS of waiting to find out whats up is really going to chafe.

[azerSheppard]

VolusvsReaper wrote...

I am pretty sure if Kaiden tried telling Shep what to do, Shepard would laugh at him and tell him to go clean the toilets on the Normandy.

Kaiding is Ruperts assisstant

[Alpha-Centuri]

[quote]Han Shot First wrote...


I'm a former Marine actually,[/quote]

Well, you know what they say. Once a marine, always a marine. Thank you for your service
[quote]
so I'm aware of the difference between rank and billet. I agree that Shepard doesn't necessarily cease to be commanding officer just because someone of higher rank is aboard. But I can't see Kaidan being assigned to the Normandy as the ship's executive officer for example, with someone of a lower rank as it's commanding officer.
[/quote]

I agree. Bioware can't plausibly just have him assigned to XO duty. It's stupid. But he could be assigned as a liason that is not technically assigned to the ship's detail (which if he was, it would have him serving under Shepard as he is the CO). 

[quote]
Using Marines as an example, you wouldn't have a Corporal as squad leader with a Sergeant as one of his fire team leaders. Say for examplet that Corporal who is running the squad, has a Corporal with less time in grade and less time in service as one of his fire team leaders. The junior Corporal however, ends up being meritoriously promoted to Sergeant, now outranking the squad leader. That Sergeant wouldn't remain a fire team leader, and thus subordinate to a Corporal. He'd end up in another billet suitable to his rank. (taking over another squad, for example)
[/quote]
Again I agree, in a combat situation as what you describe, you are absolutely right.

In order to get past suspension of disbelief Bioware would have to either come up with an explanation like you suggested as to why he's assigned to the Normandy, but still subordinate to Shepard, or promote Shepard and make Kaidan's rank a moot point. (even though Kaidan may still have him on time in grade)[/quote] 

As a military man, I'm sure you know that seniority still comes into play. If they do promote Shepard to the same rank as Kaidan, they'd have to retroactively do it from prior to when Kaidan was promoted (2 years ago?). They can explain it away as "Hey, you died so we didn't promote you then. Here you go, active as of two years ago." Or "We couldn't because you were a spectre, here you go." This would be more trouble than its worth, but bioware has to keep him as Commander for marketing purposes. Maybe they'll just say seniority doesn't matter to simplify it, I could go along with that.

I think we've come to a consensus that Shepard either needs to be promoted to atleast Staff Commander, or Kaidan should not be assigned to the ship detail. He would have to be outside of the direct COC of the Normandy's crew. I don't know if they have a naval or military advisor, but they should. There are ways to solve this cumbersome issue.

Modifié par Alpha-Centuri, 05 juillet 2011 - 12:11 .

[Han Shot First]

essarr71 wrote...

This one is one of the silliest hissy-fits I've seen so far. We don't know the conditions the VS is on board, or the conditions that Shepard has the SR2 (was shep assigned to it? Has Shep stolen it? - They've mutinied before) and we don't know who - if anyone - Shep is working for, regardless of if Shep is still a Specter or not.

Really, now, getting panties in a twist with MONTHS of waiting to find out whats up is really going to chafe.

Shepard is with the Alliance in ME3. Or at least he is according to a couple of the magazine previews.

As a military man, I'm sure you know that seniority still comes into play. If they do promote Shepard to the same rank as Kaidan, they'd have to retroactively do it from prior to when Kaidan was promoted (2 years ago?). They can explain it away as "Hey, you died so we didn't promote you then. Here you go, active as of two years ago." Or "We couldn't because you were a spectre, here you go." This would be more trouble than its worth, but bioware has to keep him as Commander for marketing purposes. Maybe they'll just say seniority doesn't matter to simplify it, I could go along with that.

I think we've come to a consensus that Shepard either needs to be promoted to atleast Staff Commander, or Kaidan should not be assigned to the ship detail. He would have to be outside of the direct COC of the Normandy's crew. I don't know if they have a naval or military advisor, but they should. There are ways to solve this cumbersome issue.

Bioware has a lot of options, no matter how they work it out. If it were up to me I'd have it so that he was posthumously promoted to Staff Commander when the Normandy SR1 was lost. That way he'd still be senior to Alenko.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 05 juillet 2011 - 12:22 .