483 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

Malanek999 wrote...

*snip*

Siansonea II wrote...
Everything they did in ME1 is ancient history. The Alliance So Doesn't Care, as everyone and their dog will tell you in ME2.

If essarr71 is going to use argumnents from ME1 against Shepard I can use arguments from ME1 for Shepard. Out of interest why do events that happen 2-3 years ago suddenly get forgoten? You've made a pretty dubious statement without any argument.

Remember Joker saying how the Alliance swept everything under the rug after Shepard died? Remember lots of other people saying words to that effect? Did ANYONE who hadn't met Shepard previously greet him as a returning hero of great note?

Siansonea II wrote...
Everything they did in ME2 was under the aegis of Cerberus, so they're still not winning any points from the Council. And it is Council/Alliance rankings we're talking about here, so their point of view is the only one that matters, not some omniscient player perspective.

It's NOT some "omniscient player perspective". There is proof ranging from reliable witnesses to hard physical evidence on everything I stated.

Yeah. For CERBERUS. The enemy. So congratulations, Shepard, for doing all those good deeds for Cerberus. The enemy.

[Siansonea]

Mesina2 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Shepard has no true rank anymore, Shepard is still called Commander for three reasons.

1:That was the title they had before he/she died
2: Shepard is known across the galaxy as Commander and never changed rank before death.
3: Walters was too lazy to touch this in the game and did not get rid of the Commander title. Commander is iconic "name for Shepard.

Also captain of Quarian ship Neema calls Shepard a captain.

Bully for him. I'm sure the Alliance will give that due consideration.

[Siansonea]

IsaacShep wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Kaidan can suck a dick.

IKR? It IS looking more and more likely, I guess we know how Kaidan and Shepard will really sort all this rank business out...

[Maugrim]

Siansonea II wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Kaidan can suck a dick.

IKR? It IS looking more and more likely, I guess we know how Kaidan and Shepard will really sort all this rank business out...

I guess the point of this thread is just to figure out who's on top then?

[Siansonea]

Malanek999 wrote...

I see it going going like this.

Kaidan: Sorry sir, I'm going to pull rank on this one.
[Shepard turns to Garrus and then they both crack up in laughter]

Kaidan: Laugh it up Archangel. Say, how's your leadership skills these days, anyway?
Garrus: Shepard, if you'll excuse me, I really need to return to my calibrations. Is that okay? *waits for nod from Shepard*

[Siansonea]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Kaidan can suck a dick.

IKR? It IS looking more and more likely, I guess we know how Kaidan and Shepard will really sort all this rank business out...

I guess the point of this thread is just to figure out who's on top then?

Coooould beeee....

[shepskisaac]

makenzieshepard wrote...
I guess the point of this thread is just to figure out who's on top then?

I think there's little doubt about that xD

[Ryzaki]

Yeah Shep's charismatic enough to get the whole ship on his side in about a week.

Kaidan tries giving orders then when EDI, Joker and everyone else is on Shep's side (save maybe Vega and with Shep's track record Vega'll be putty in about 2 days) is gonna lead to laughter.

[Oloos]

Kaidan : Commander ? Since i outrank you, can you give me command of the Normandy ?
Shepard : Erm... How to say it nicely ? Jack ?
Jack : F*** you and thanks for asking ?
Shepard : Ah ! That's it ! Anything else for you Lieutenant ?
Kaidan : I... You... No commander...
Shepard : Good boy !

[Sheppard-Commander]

Siansonea II wrote...

Did ANYONE who hadn't met Shepard previously greet him as a returning hero of great note?

Only practically every vendor on the Citadel and Bailey.

[Sharn01]

Naval ranks and the corresponding army ranks

Ensign / Ensign 2nd class                         2nd Lieutenant
Sub- Lieutenant / Ensign 1st class          1st Lieutenant
Lieutenant                                                      Captain
Lieutenant Commander                              Major
Commander                                                  Lieutenant Colonel
Captain                                                           Colonel
Admiral                                                           General


Just thought I would include them since I saw a lot of errors in the thread regarding rank structure.

Modifié par Sharn01, 05 juillet 2011 - 07:03 .

[Malanek]

Siansonea II wrote...
Remember Joker saying how the Alliance swept everything under the rug after Shepard died? Remember lots of other people saying words to that effect? Did ANYONE who hadn't met Shepard previously greet him as a returning hero of great note?

????
They swept evidence of the Reapers under the rug. They didn't sweep evidence of the Geth attack under thug. And yes, about a dozen characters in ME2 greet you like a conquering hero and go ape for your endorsement in selling their goods.

Siansonea II wrote...
Yeah. For CERBERUS. The enemy. So congratulations, Shepard, for doing all those good deeds for Cerberus. The enemy.

As far as the sick batarian whose life you saved is concerned it was shepard not Cerberus. Same with detective Anayla. Same with the Salarian workers. It sure as hell wasn't cerberus as far as the Quarian generals are concerned. Nor the people on Horizon or Watson etc etc. Cerberus is a shadowy organisation that most people haven't even heard about. Everyone in the galaxy has heard about Shepard. It's even dubious you were working for them when you uploaded embarrassing inside information to the alliance.

Modifié par Malanek999, 05 juillet 2011 - 06:42 .

[etonesmith1]

why am I not finding anything that states that a Staff Commander outranks a Commander? the rank system we have seen so far is a mismash of Navy and Marine designations. (Gunner-Chief? for a Marine?) an assignment as commanding officer, regardless of actual rank, promotes you to Captain of that Vessel. as Shepard was never technically releaved of command of the Normandy, he is still a Captain.

[Siansonea]

Malanek999 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Remember Joker saying how the Alliance swept everything under the rug after Shepard died? Remember lots of other people saying words to that effect? Did ANYONE who hadn't met Shepard previously greet him as a returning hero of great note?

????
They swept evidence of the Reapers under the rug. They didn't sweep evidence of the Geth attack under thug. And yes, about a dozen characters in ME2 greet you like a conquering hero and go ape for your endorsement in selling their goods.

Siansonea II wrote...
Yeah. For CERBERUS. The enemy. So congratulations, Shepard, for doing all those good deeds for Cerberus. The enemy.

As far as the sick batarian whose life you saved is concerned it was shepard not Cerberus. Same with detective Anayla. Same with the Salarian workers. It sure as hell wasn't cerberus as far as the Quarian generals are concerned. Nor the people on Horizon or Watson etc etc. Cerberus is a shadowy organisation that most people haven't even heard about. Everyone in the galaxy has heard about Shepard. It's even dubious you were working for them when you uploaded embarrassing inside information to the alliance.

And these random people's assessment of Shepard's character is relevant to the Alliance's determination of rank structure HOW exactly?

[Han Shot First]

Mesina2 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Shepard has no true rank anymore, Shepard is still called Commander for three reasons.

1:That was the title they had before he/she died
2: Shepard is known across the galaxy as Commander and never changed rank before death.
3: Walters was too lazy to touch this in the game and did not get rid of the Commander title. Commander is iconic "name for Shepard.

Also captain of Quarian ship Neema calls Shepard a captain.

You are making the mistake of confusing rank with billet.

When Shepard is called a captain, it is referring to the fact that he's in command of a ship. It is referring to his billet (his job/assignment) rather than the rank of Captain, which Shepard doesn't hold.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 05 juillet 2011 - 06:49 .

[Malanek]

Siansonea II wrote...
And these random people's assessment of Shepard's character is relevant to the Alliance's determination of rank structure HOW exactly?

If you go back a page you will see I was responding to a post that listed some of Shepards more shady dealings and was casting him/her in a negative light. Hpwever in theory people do/should be given promotions based on their accomplishments. The whole point of this thread is trying to figure out whether Kaidan deserve a higher ranking than shepard, and if indeed it is as absurd as it sounds, whether he could in practice carry out acting as a superior officer.

[Siansonea]

Malanek999 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
And these random people's assessment of Shepard's character is relevant to the Alliance's determination of rank structure HOW exactly?

If you go back a page you will see I was responding to a post that listed some of Shepards more shady dealings and was casting him/her in a negative light. Hpwever in theory people do/should be given promotions based on their accomplishments. The whole point of this thread is trying to figure out whether Kaidan deserve a higher ranking than shepard, and if indeed it is as absurd as it sounds, whether he could in practice carry out acting as a superior officer.

Well, people should, in theory, be given promotions based on their accomplishments. HOWEVER, one prerequisite for promotion that is being overlooked is employment/affiliation. Shepard is technically not in the Alliance at all at this point, and many in the Alliance command might think he's a deserter. He was missing in action after the Collector attack and presumed dead. So, his rank died with him. Two years later he's bebopping through the galaxy in a Cerberus ship. Maybe Shepard gets reinstated as a Spectre, maybe he doesn't, but in any case Spectre status is not relevant to Alliance rank structure. So in spite of all the "good" Shepard may have done while being the Illusive Man's whipping boy, it's not doing anything to improve his lot with the Alliance, and is indeed undermining his status with the Alliance.

And let's not forget who is making the call here. It's Alliance High Command, the Alliance Admirals. Anderson and Hackett will surely put in a good word for Shepard—but they'd probably put in a good word for Kaidan too. So it really just depends on how many of them have a deep and abiding hatred for Cerberus, and how many of them recognize that Shepard is "the player character".

Modifié par Siansonea II, 05 juillet 2011 - 06:58 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

I would imagine Alliance rank doesn't mean much since they're Spectres. Do Spectres have such a thing as seniority? I'd hope so.

[Han Shot First]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I would imagine Alliance rank doesn't mean much since they're Spectres. Do Spectres have such a thing as seniority? I'd hope so.

We meet four Spectres in the games including Shepard, and he's the only one in command of a warship. In ME1 when Nihlus was aboard the Normandy he was just a passenger, and did not outrank Captain Anderson or command the ship.

Shepard commands the SR1 because in addition to being a Spectre he's a Lt Commander in the Alliance Navy and has been given that assignment from the Alliance brass. He commands the SR2 in ME2 not because he's a Spectre, but because it is a Cerberus vessel and because TIM said so.

In the end Spectres only answer to the Council and as such, wield a lot of power. But that power doesn't necessarily translate to military command. If that were the case Shepard could just command every Alliance and alien vessel not commanded by a Spectre, to follow him into battle.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 05 juillet 2011 - 07:18 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

I got the feeling Nihlus was being diplomatic by deferring to Anderson.

[Siansonea]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I would imagine Alliance rank doesn't mean much since they're Spectres. Do Spectres have such a thing as seniority? I'd hope so.

Well, if they're both Spectres, they'd probably be of equal rank. Nihlus and Saren seemed to regard each other as equals. Until Saren shot Nihlus in the back of the head, I mean. But regardless of their Spectre status, they would still have a wholly separate status within the Alliance. The Alliance is part of the Citadel Council, and just because their operatives get co-opted into the Spectres doesn't mean the Alliance relinquishes all claim on them. Shepard found that out in ME1, with Hackett's constant phone calls, and Mikhaelovich's surprise inspection of the Normandy. Shepard can thumb his nose at the Alliance if he wants, and hide behind his Spectre badge, but let's not forget he might have burned BOTH those bridges if he hewed too close to the douchebag philosophy.

So even if the Alliance rank doesn't "mean much" for Spectres, it doesn't mean nothing. And there's every likelihood of a scenario where Kaidan is a Spectre, and Shepard isn't. And there's a scenario where Kaidan is a Spectre, and Shepard's not even an Alliance Marine. If I was on the Alliance Admiralty Board, I would demote Shepard to Lieutenant at the very least for cavorting with Cerberus for two years. If I could, I'd prefer to court-martial Shepard. The Alliance doesn't want soldiers to think they can just join human supremacist organizations for a couple of years, then come crawling back at their previous pay grade. Nope, gotta make an example of Shepard, this whole "Collectors" business seems just as fanciful and nebulous as that "Reapers" business from a couple of years back.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 05 juillet 2011 - 07:17 .

[Ahriman]

Shepard: This is not ship you are commanding on.
Kaidan: This is not ship I'm commanding on.

Come on, even if Shepard had Admiral in his team he still would remain captain. Actually I don't want to be jerk to Kaidan [he is "good kid" after all ], on other side I would like to see how Ashley will try to show who is the boss on the ship. Glorious stare contest.

[Han Shot First]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I got the feeling Nihlus was being diplomatic by deferring to Anderson.

He had to be.

As a Turian he was outside the chain of command and had no official authority over Anderson, or the Alliance crew. The Citadel Council is more of a loose alliance than a single nation. Individual member nations probably wouldn't take too kindly to foreign Spectres seizing control of their warships and would also likely view it as a violation of their own sovereignty. Official complaints would be lodged and a diplomantic incident would follow. Enough such incidents and member states probably go the route of the Batarians, and withdraw.

Spectres have a lot of power to be sure, but they're power isn't unlimited. They have a free hand so long as they are seen as acting in the Council's best interests, but if they are seen as acting against it, they are screwed. I can't imagine that the Council would deem it in their best interest to have one of their representatives trying to bully an Alliance officer into surrendering his command to him.

I also can't imagine either Anderson or his crew falling into line if Nihlus attempted to seize control of the ship, particularly considering humanity's history with the Turians. Spectres may be badasses but they also aren't invincible. That dispute would probably end with Nihlus being detained in the brig until they hit port, if not outright introduced to the airlock.

Likewise Shepard coundn't step onto the bridge of a Turian dreadnought  in ME2 and declare, "I'm a Spectre! I'm in a charge here!" (as funny as that might have been)

Modifié par Han Shot First, 05 juillet 2011 - 07:34 .

[Lord Coake]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

VolusvsReaper wrote...

I am pretty sure if Kaiden tried telling Shep what to do, Shepard would laugh at him and tell him to go clean the toilets on the Normandy.

Thank you for the laugh. Awesome!

Kaidan: Since I outrank you now, I'm taking control of this ship so first...
Shepard: Erm.. No?
*Shepard hands kaidan some stuff to clean with*
Kaidan: What's this for?
Shepard: Cleaning. Now report to Mess Sergeant Gardner and make those toilets sparkle!

Nah, I see it more going like this...

Kaidan: Alright, Hackett ordered us to fall back to Arcturus, we'll go there, regroup with the fleet and then look at our options.

FemShep: Erm...No? This is my ship and if you think....

Kaidan: So the logical aspects of my plan don't mean anything compared to your ego?

FemShep: That's right.

Kaidan: Lieutenant Vega, please take Commander Shepard to the Brig until she stops acting like a petulant child.

Vega: On it boss.

Garrus: Try it, Kaidan.

[Ahriman]

Lord Coake wrote...
Garrus: Try it, Kaidan.

Garrus probably won't be there at the start of the game. Just for record.