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[upsettingshorts]

ipgd wrote...

Killer Irish wrote...

In Dragon Age 2 he was VERY heavy when it came to hitting on your character.

No, he wasn't. He has literally one unsolicited flirt line in the entire game that will only appear if you take the diplomatic option at the end of his first conversation following Tranquility in Act I. He calls Hawke scruffy and then immediately apologizes, informs him that he will stop if he is making Hawke uncomfortable, and if you tell him he is, he stops. You get a minor amount of rivalry points if you get this dialogue option, but you can avoid it entirely if you a) take the broken heart option at the very beginning of the same conversation, cutting off all romance options with no friendship/rivalry change at all, or taking the sarcastic/aggressive options at the end of the conversation, avoiding the flirt dialogue entirely. After this point, it is entirely up to Hawke to make romantic advances. You can very easily go the entire game and never have any sort of suggestive exchange with Anders.

You are imagining it to be worse than it was. Thank you, Gay Panic.

You take your God-damned, so-called "facts" and get them the hell out of here.  They're inconvenient and not at all welcome.  

[KingNothing125]

ipgd wrote...

No, he wasn't. He has literally one unsolicited flirt line in the entire game that will only appear if you take the diplomatic option at the end of his first conversation following Tranquility in Act I. He calls Hawke scruffy and then immediately apologizes, informs him that he will stop if he is making Hawke uncomfortable, and if you tell him he is, he stops. You get a minor amount of rivalry points if you get this dialogue option, but you can avoid it entirely if you a) take the broken heart option at the very beginning of the same conversation, cutting off all romance options with no friendship/rivalry change at all, or taking the sarcastic/aggressive options at the end of the conversation, avoiding the flirt dialogue entirely. After this point, it is entirely up to Hawke to make romantic advances. You can very easily go the entire game and never have any sort of suggestive exchange with Anders.

You are imagining it to be worse than it was. Thank you, Gay Panic.

This.

/thread

[Killer Irish]

slimgrin wrote...

I don't like how they are implementing S/S either, but it's a done deal. That's what they are doing, and it won't keep me from buying the game. I suppose it's better they be inclusive in this regard than not.

These threads have become pointless.

I have noticed that myself unfortunately.  The second I posted this thread it seems people were more interested in argueing their points than wanting to discuse things.  I know it can be a touchy subject...I guess people get so used to jerks here on the internet that when they read things they don't agree with they tend to read it in an angry tone.

[Stanley Woo]

Same sex relationships in Mass Effect 3 are being discussed in this thread. Please take your discussion there. All romances in BioWare games are completely optional and player-initiated. Ninjamances tend to happen when players are careless and not reading the dialogue and dialogue options, or when they interpret a paraphrase differently than we do. As folks in this thread have indicated, there are a couple of different ways to avoid the Anders "ninjamance." It is not, in fact, a sure thing. Thank you.

End of line.

[Siansonea]

Killer Irish wrote...

I know this could possibly be a "hot button" topic to chat about.  But when I read that Bioware was going in this direction I genuinly became concerned.  Taking the time to gather my thoughts,  I can break this "concern" down in two ways; How this sort of relationship was handled in Dragon Age 2 & How this comes across when handling pre-established characters.

You are the first person to ever raise this concern. /sarcasm

Okay, Dragon Age 2, specifically Anders.  When you're first introduced to the character in DA1 he makes no hint at all to being gay (and there were plenty of chances to do so).  So when he makes his first pass at you in Dragon Age 2, it's a bit of a shock.  The biggest problem?  I couldn't be nice to the guy.  Anytime I tried to be there for him as a friend, he immidiatly took it as I was hitting on him.  The things he would say to me, he would have been more subtle if he jumped on top of a rainbow colored horse and ran me over with it.  It got to a point where I had to be purposely mean to him to get the point across that I wasn't intrested (and then of course I had to suffer negative relationship points). Which sucks because I really did like Anders from the original Dragon Age.  He was hilarious, sarcastic, a character I liked having in my party.  But in Dragon Age 2 it was basically all or nothing.  It was either I was nice so I must like him, or I was a jerk so thus I hate him.

Again, no one has EVER brought this up before. /sarcasm

Seriously, Anders in DAA and Anders in DA2 are two different people. Literally. DA2 Anders is actually a hybrid of Anders AND Justice. If you were expecting DAA Anders, after becoming an ABOMINATION, well, maybe you don’t understand what happens to a person when they merge with a spirit from the Fade.

And it’s funny that Anders’ sexuality is the sticking point, the issue, as it were. Not the fact that he COULD BE DEAD in a save game. One is a character evolution, the other is a retcon. I’ll let you guess which is which.

Are video games able to match real life subtly?  Can I be nice, can I be a friend to Garrus without the dialog tree forcing me into an awkward situation?  I have friends that are gay and I've never been put into situations such as this.  But that's because they know me...they know who I am, what I believe, likes, dislikes, etc.  Whoever your Shepard is you would hope your in-game friends would know you just as well.  But seeing this is a new option, much like a light switch, it has been flicked on.  This leads me into my 2nd and final concern.

This is probably the hardest one to talk about...because in the end Bioware bodly stating, "you will be able to romance anybody," means just that, anybody on your team.  This isn't about character development, this isn't about advancing the story, this is simply about adding another "option."  It literally is a light switch to be flicked on.  You can't tell me after hundreds of battles over the span of two games, Garrus, or Miranda, or whoever you want to sleep with, wouldn't have brought up their feelings for you while starring death down together.  It has been nearly the end of the galaxy twice now.  The characters inside the Mass Effect universe would have found the time to have a heart-to-heart with you, no matter if you were a boy or a girl.  That's the thing I probably like the least because it almost cheapens the characters.  If these characters are to be real then they too have to have beliefs, likes and dislikes, preferences, they have to be different and you have to be understanding of those differences.  The Mass Effect series has put a lot of emphasis on story and believable characters.  It may be science fiction, but the characters are what have grounded this game and made it a thrill to play.  I want to be able to pick up Mass Effect 3 and immediately joke around with Garrus without having to worry if he thinks I'm hitting on him.  I want to go grab a drink with Kaidan after an exhasting battle and not wonder if he's going to slip me his bedroom key.  Its about consistency, it's about knowing these characters as well as they alreay know me (my Shepard).

Cookie cutting their sexual desires together makes it less realistic and makes it confusing on the player. 

I thank you for taking the time to read this and just know I mean no disrespect to anyone.   This comes from what I saw in Dragon Age 2 and the realization of the limits that a dialog tree can have. 

Does Garrus have feelings for ManShep? Maybe not. After all, if FemShep doesn’t make a rather hamhanded pass at Garrus in ME2, it pretty much doesn’t cross his mind at all. He’ll tell you himself: he doesn’t have a fetish for humans (who would?). So anyone who thinks Garrus is writing “Mr. Shepard Vakarian” on his Trapper Keeper is probably worrying needlessly.

Does Tali have secret feelings for FemShep? Maybe. Maybe not. Would she be up for it if FemShep were interested? Who knows? She's hard to read, that Tali, maybe it's because I can't see her face.

Does Kaidan have secret feelings for ManShep? Possibly. Would he go out of his way to make a pass at ManShep under any circumstances. I doubt it. ManShep would have to make the first move.

Would Ashley ever make an overture toward FemShep? I’d like to think she would. Ash is as forthright as they come, I hope something as inconsequential as Shepard’s gender wouldn’t hold her back.

Might Miranda want some FemShep lovin’? I think it’s possible. Well, with Miranda, ANYTHING is possible. She’s an enigma, that Miranda, and I don’t think for a second that I know anything worth knowing about her other than that she’ll do anything for Oriana.

What about Thane? Could he love a male human? Probably. After all, what difference does gender make, when you’re already crossing the species divide?

And Jacob. Is there room in Jacob’s heart for the love of a fellow man? Hmmm. Is there room in Jacob’s heart, period? Who knows with that dude. He could go both ways, I suppose, but I doubt he’d hit on anyone who didn’t show a clear interest in him, and he’d bolt as soon as ManShep got too clingy.

So yeah, I don't think BioWare is going to do a cookie-cutter copy-and-paste for ME3, that would be silly, and out of left field.

But this is really about DA2, isn’t it? Well, considering that Anders, and only Anders, acting like a needy twerp with Hawke (of both genders, so he’s not “gay” geez, buy a dictionary), I don’t have any concern that every character is suddenly going to throw themselves at Shepard’s feet. BioWare can and will do better than that, regardless of how many characters they decide to designate as s/s options.

[ademska]

calling your gay panic out for what it is isn't being a jerk so much as being honest

if you want discussion, try replying to the people who make counterpoints instead of agreeing with you