78 réponses à ce sujet

[DreamerM]

Problem is, it wasn't really an anti-evil-magic storyline. It was more of an anti-serial-killer storyline.

They didn't do enough to emphasize the magical nature of the assailent. This is the 21st Century, people. We've seen Doctor Satan do more impressive flesh jobs WITHOUT the aid of magic or demons. If they wanted to shock us with his magical evillness, then they needed to try harder.

Has Necromancy ever been even mentioned in DA before now, or did they just think it sounded creepy so they made it up?

[Uccio]

I was really annoyed when the killer appeared in the game (first entry to foundry) and then later the follower arrived to find him and my character was not able to do anything. It´s like he suffered from amnesia until the point he saw lillies on the table.
Hawke was supposed to be a free lancing detective in quest to find this serial killer but at some point he just drops the ball and is content with it, wtf? At that point I knew we would see mom or someone close to Hawke dead later on. It just didn´t make any sence to drop the effort in finding this killer with all the obvious clues that he was back and active again.

The death scene also made me gringe since for me seeing my mom being cutted to pieces and made a zombie bride would have seriously blew my top. I would have not straight out killed the murderer, I would either force a cure out of him, OR, if that would have not been possible I would send my companions home to have some lone time with the killer and my trusty knife. So Hawke´s reaction was mild at best.

However, the lack of interaction between mom and Hawke during the game was indeed a factor which made me not to miss her and infact Gamlens reaction had more impact on me.

I didn´t think the killer was using blood magic since they were talking about necromancy which should be a branch of its own in the magic tree, so I did not connect this situation with the overall strugle of mages against templars.

Modifié par Ukki, 06 juillet 2011 - 09:09 .

[Macropodmum]

DreamerM wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Reading the comments about the quest on Youtube, people found it really sad.

It was, in concept. In execution? Not so much.

I agree

[Lilunebrium]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
Not to say that you weren't immersed, Lilunebrium.  No personal attack was intended here, so I hope my rambling did not come across that way.

Not to worry. ^^
I myself feel like I'm handling the entire affair a bit too objectively. Whereas I can rationalize the actions of Quentin, Grace and Anders (the latter with admitted difficulty), it's not that hard to imagine my Hawke experiences the events quite a bit differently. The first murders Leandra, the second abducts and intends to kill another loved one, the latter betrays Hawke's trust and blows up a Chantry, signifying the beginning of a revolt. 

Perhaps some might view that as a sign the game didn't pull me in as effectively as it set out to do, but I quite enjoyed it nevertheless.

[SirGladiator]

Was it an epic fail? Very much so. Its just one more example of how terrible the overall writing is. You can like or dislike the mission itself, but the fact that you're FORCED to fail it, and thus be left with NO family whatsoever (you may or may not have a sibling out there somewhere, alive but gone until near the end), this in a game whose only real selling point is that this is a personal quest, Hawke and her family in Kirkwall. Theres no great cause like in DAO, but thats OK because its about family. That sounds great, except it just doesn't work out that way. It ends up being about Hawke all by herself, until the end when she finally gets Bethany back which is great, but for a fair portion of the game you've got nothing at all, zero point to still be playing, since your family is all gone. The only reason to keep playing is because you know you can at least get one of your siblings back (assuming your actions havent already resulted in their death, in which case playing on truly is completely pointless). So yes, in a game that's all about Hawke and her family, forced-killing the last remaining family member is a really REALLY bigtime epic fail.

[sonoko]

I think the quest itself was very good and I like that we can't save her. But I found it hard to care about Leandra since there was so little interaction with her. Her sole role in game was to be killed by Quentin. I wish we had more dialogs with her, she could tell a lot about Kirkwall or Malcolm Hawke or how they were hiding from templars in Ferelden, etc.

[Annarl]

TJPags wrote...

por favor wrote...

I don't know how I'm expected to feel any kind of emotion over my momHawke dying if I barely even spoke to her throughout the game or spent any time with her whatsoever.

That's pretty much all that needs to be said right there.

Yeah that would be the big problem with her death scene.  Your character only has what 4 whole lines with her in the game.  So for me the emotional impact was very limited.  I disliked the story line in general, it felt like a 1940's bad B movie.

[Midz]

Its you
as 1 is fairly obvious any story
2 is your choices
3 is your opinion
4 you answered yourself
5 see 4

next question ?

[Mr.House]

It's not just you, some others didn't like it. I personally loved it and made me cry a bit at the end.

More so this part :crying::crying::crying:

[Icy Magebane]

I agree with the OP for the most part. I've never liked this quest because it's rather grotesque and just breaks up the flow of the game for me. Every time you play it, it just gets more and more obvious (and it was obvious even the first time) that they should have tried harder to find Quentin in Act 1. And then there's the whole, "not enough evidence" bit... yeah okay... Kirkwall must be one hell of a town if "scavengers" gather up bits of jewelry and mutilated body parts to the point where it seems unremarkable.

I'm actually glad they didn't make Hawke break down and start crying though... I would have liked if that had been one of the dialogue choices, but it's not anything I'd pick. Still, it seems like a pretty standard response that a lot of players would go for, so why not include it? Well whatever... I always skip through the scene where he's talking to Leandra's decapitated head anyway. Very creepy and nothing I need to see more than once. I'm just thankful you can skip it... at least that's something.

Of course, if we could somehow play as a rational Hawke and actually investigate Quentin and you know, prevent Leandra's death, none of this would be an issue... but noooo... every playthrough is sullied by that lame quest.

I'm hoping that the next DA2 protagonist is just some amnesiac wanderer with no known relatives...

Edit:  Yeah, and I didn't see your name, but whoever posted that image of the death scene, thanks a lot.  Just my luck I'd post right after that crap was put up...   Just reminds me how low this quest brought the overal value of the game... lol... I mean really?  A decapitated head sewn onto a bunch of random women's bodies???  That's the best quest they could give us?  And how in the hell is it possible that Leandra just happened to look like the Killer's dead wife?  Bah... this quest sucks, simple as that.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 06 juillet 2011 - 07:06 .

[Tails_Night]

I guess it felt too detatched for me and at the same time I was in too much of a "O.O wtf" mood then the thought hit me if he were a blood mage could hawke... nvm.

[Foolsfolly]

I felt worse for the bound and executed Qunari when he had his throat slit, than for Leandra.

Saarabas's death is sadder.

Of course, that character is more capable and interesting than Mom Hawke ever was.

[Foolsfolly]

A decapitated head sewn onto a bunch of random women's bodies??? That's the best quest they could give us? And how in the hell is it possible that Leandra just happened to look like the Killer's dead wife?

I didn't find it gross at all. Frankenstein's Monster and all, ya know?

And the 'how does it look like his dead wife' that's gotta be a trope. Plus, we're not all delicate little unique snowflakes. We tend to look very similar. Ever look at old pictures from the 20s or 40s and see people that kinda look like people you know?

[TEWR]

Saarebas is awesome.

[Gibb_Shepard]

The path to her death was an epic fail. Not exactly for the reasons you mentioned, but because of the fact we DIDN'T EVEN TALK TO HER. Four extremely brief conversations took place, i couldn't feel any emotion over her death when my Hawke seemed to barely know his mother.

[RangerSG]

I did get very mad about this quest, and there's a couple GIANT plot holes in the quest.

1) Aveline can be with the PC. If she is, she sees a man run off. She sees the ring, as well as the bones. She KNOWS there was a murder when she talks to Emerick about it after the fact if she's with you.

But 3 years later, she's had total amnesia about all of this. She even goes as far as to claim the bones could've come from anywhere, when her conclusion when she was there was EXACTLY the opposite.

2) Hawke also has a case of total amnesia. He too saw a man get away, and comments on such to Emerick. Three years later, how does sarc-Hawke great the Templar who's been working on a case he forgot about? "I hear you're still chasing disappearing acts." *facepalm* One of the most tactless and imbecilic lines in the game. Hey, I don't expect Hawke to do what a city full of guards failed to do EVERY time. But I would think that he wouldn't be oblivious to what he himself noted before.

3) Hawke's seen the pattern in women that get taken. Would it not be logical to note his mother fits the pattern and say, "If you get a bouquet of white lillies, tell me and STAY HOME." Nah. That would involve foresight and involvement in the quest. Alright, maybe this one would be dependent on cunning, and it wouldn't have to change anything necessarily. But it would indicate SOME measure of Hawke being other than oblivious in this quest.

I do agree the blood mage element was well-done, and the bits where the PC is consoled are nice. But honestly, the whole "investigation" part of this quest feels like one big idiot ball for all hands.

[Sidney]

Ukki wrote...


Hawke was supposed to be a free lancing detective in quest to find this serial killer but at some point he just drops the ball and is content with it, wtf? At that point I knew we would see mom or someone close to Hawke dead later on. It just didn´t make any sence to drop the effort in finding this killer with all the obvious clues that he was back and active again.

You assume there are clues to be had. As we saw in the game there are sparse clue and the most dedicated investigator can't nail down what is happening. Unless Bohdan has a CSI lab it wasn't like there was a ton of stuff Hawke was missing based on what we know up until mom gets kidnapped.

The worst part of the mission is that the killer who has been so clever and elusive allows a blood trail to lead you right to him. That to me felt like a cop out.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I wouldn't say it's epic fail, but it's certainly too bombastic for its own good. It didn't need Frankenstein at the end to drive the point. The game is not lacking in terms of magic being vilified (more like made into lunatic idiots) either.

[The dead fish]

RangerSG wrote...

I did get very mad about this quest, and there's a couple GIANT plot holes in the quest.

1) Aveline can be with the PC. If she is, she sees a man run off. She sees the ring, as well as the bones. She KNOWS there was a murder when she talks to Emerick about it after the fact if she's with you.

But 3 years later, she's had total amnesia about all of this. She even goes as far as to claim the bones could've come from anywhere, when her conclusion when she was there was EXACTLY the opposite.

2) Hawke also has a case of total amnesia. He too saw a man get away, and comments on such to Emerick. Three years later, how does sarc-Hawke great the Templar who's been working on a case he forgot about? "I hear you're still chasing disappearing acts." *facepalm* One of the most tactless and imbecilic lines in the game. Hey, I don't expect Hawke to do what a city full of guards failed to do EVERY time. But I would think that he wouldn't be oblivious to what he himself noted before.

3) Hawke's seen the pattern in women that get taken. Would it not be logical to note his mother fits the pattern and say, "If you get a bouquet of white lillies, tell me and STAY HOME." Nah. That would involve foresight and involvement in the quest. Alright, maybe this one would be dependent on cunning, and it wouldn't have to change anything necessarily. But it would indicate SOME measure of Hawke being other than oblivious in this quest.

I do agree the blood mage element was well-done, and the bits where the PC is consoled are nice. But honestly, the whole "investigation" part of this quest feels like one big idiot ball for all hands.

My god, sir. You're cruel to open my eyes....

What strikes me most in all this is indeed when we help Emeric in the act 1 to investigate, it doesn't matter in Act 2.

The first time I played DA2, I didn't do his quest. I thought there would be a difference at least minimal, but not at all.

I just gained experience points and that's it.  Exatcly the same thing, the same progress.

In three years, Emeric hasn't progressed one bit in his investigation,with our help or not in the act 1.

[megski]

Really, the only thing that made me feel BAD was when you're running through your house and the elf Orana says, "sorry about your mama" Or something to that affect. She says it so damn sad, "I was like oh yeah, that happened."

[RangerSG]

Sylvianus wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

I did get very mad about this quest, and there's a couple GIANT plot holes in the quest.

1) Aveline can be with the PC. If she is, she sees a man run off. She sees the ring, as well as the bones. She KNOWS there was a murder when she talks to Emerick about it after the fact if she's with you.

But 3 years later, she's had total amnesia about all of this. She even goes as far as to claim the bones could've come from anywhere, when her conclusion when she was there was EXACTLY the opposite.

2) Hawke also has a case of total amnesia. He too saw a man get away, and comments on such to Emerick. Three years later, how does sarc-Hawke great the Templar who's been working on a case he forgot about? "I hear you're still chasing disappearing acts." *facepalm* One of the most tactless and imbecilic lines in the game. Hey, I don't expect Hawke to do what a city full of guards failed to do EVERY time. But I would think that he wouldn't be oblivious to what he himself noted before.

3) Hawke's seen the pattern in women that get taken. Would it not be logical to note his mother fits the pattern and say, "If you get a bouquet of white lillies, tell me and STAY HOME." Nah. That would involve foresight and involvement in the quest. Alright, maybe this one would be dependent on cunning, and it wouldn't have to change anything necessarily. But it would indicate SOME measure of Hawke being other than oblivious in this quest.

I do agree the blood mage element was well-done, and the bits where the PC is consoled are nice. But honestly, the whole "investigation" part of this quest feels like one big idiot ball for all hands.

My god, sir. You're cruel to open my eyes....

What strikes me most in all this is indeed when we help Emeric in the act 1 to investigate, it doesn't matter in Act 2.

The first time I played DA2, I didn't do his quest. I thought there would be a difference at least minimal, but not at all.

I just gained experience points and that's it.  Exatcly the same thing, the same progress.

In three years, Emeric hasn't progressed one bit in his investigation,with our help or not in the act 1.

Well, I'll be fair. He did organize the raid on Dupris' Estate, which led to him getting shut down by Meredith. He was, as we discover, wrong, but only in that he "hit" a probably accomplice rather than the actual villain.

So I don't blame Emerick in this. After all, he does pursue this when Avelline gives her usual, "We've been lax, but won't be any more," line...which ends with her idiot ball.

But between the PC and Avelline, there's enough clueless ambivalence in this quest to fill the Gallows. It's honestly, just above the Act 3 Main Quest in my opinion for "worst writing moments" in the game. And that's painful, because the rest of Act 2 is well done, it stands out like a sore thumb...or maybe lets us know what's to follow.

Modifié par RangerSG, 08 juillet 2011 - 12:44 .

[The dead fish]

RangerSG wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

I did get very mad about this quest, and there's a couple GIANT plot holes in the quest.

1) Aveline can be with the PC. If she is, she sees a man run off. She sees the ring, as well as the bones. She KNOWS there was a murder when she talks to Emerick about it after the fact if she's with you.

But 3 years later, she's had total amnesia about all of this. She even goes as far as to claim the bones could've come from anywhere, when her conclusion when she was there was EXACTLY the opposite.

2) Hawke also has a case of total amnesia. He too saw a man get away, and comments on such to Emerick. Three years later, how does sarc-Hawke great the Templar who's been working on a case he forgot about? "I hear you're still chasing disappearing acts." *facepalm* One of the most tactless and imbecilic lines in the game. Hey, I don't expect Hawke to do what a city full of guards failed to do EVERY time. But I would think that he wouldn't be oblivious to what he himself noted before.

3) Hawke's seen the pattern in women that get taken. Would it not be logical to note his mother fits the pattern and say, "If you get a bouquet of white lillies, tell me and STAY HOME." Nah. That would involve foresight and involvement in the quest. Alright, maybe this one would be dependent on cunning, and it wouldn't have to change anything necessarily. But it would indicate SOME measure of Hawke being other than oblivious in this quest.

I do agree the blood mage element was well-done, and the bits where the PC is consoled are nice. But honestly, the whole "investigation" part of this quest feels like one big idiot ball for all hands.

My god, sir. You're cruel to open my eyes....

What strikes me most in all this is indeed when we help Emeric in the act 1 to investigate, it doesn't matter in Act 2.

The first time I played DA2, I didn't do his quest. I thought there would be a difference at least minimal, but not at all.

I just gained experience points and that's it.  Exatcly the same thing, the same progress.

In three years, Emeric hasn't progressed one bit in his investigation,with our help or not in the act 1.

Well, I'll be fair. He did organize the raid on Dupris' Estate, which led to him getting shut down by Meredith. He was, as we discover, wrong, but only in that he "hit" a probably accomplice rather than the actual villain.

So I don't blame Emerick in this. After all, he does pursue this when Avelline gives her usual, "We've been lax, but won't be any more," line...which ends with her idiot ball.

But between the PC and Avelline, there's enough clueless ambivalence in this quest to fill the Gallows. It's honestly, just above the Act 3 Main Quest in my opinion for "worst writing moments" in the game. And that's painful, because the rest of Act 2 is well done, it stands out like a sore thumb...or maybe lets us know what's to follow.

Oh, I do not blame the character, but the futility of this quest useless in Act 1, if it adds nothing to the story in the progress and at the end, if it is exactly the same way.

Otherwise I agree.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 08 juillet 2011 - 12:50 .

[Macropodmum]

RangerSG wrote...

I did get very mad about this quest, and there's a couple GIANT plot holes in the quest.

1) Aveline can be with the PC. If she is, she sees a man run off. She sees the ring, as well as the bones. She KNOWS there was a murder when she talks to Emerick about it after the fact if she's with you.

That and the fact that I'm sure the Aveline I got to know in my game would NEVER have let this go...