1768 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Seboist wrote...
Yeah, like with killing Helena Blake and Fist,does crime go down? Does another gang or crimelord take their place? Does ANYTHING happen? According to ME2 there's just nothing.

And even worse... what happens if you take the Paragon route and let them live?  You hear nothing negative about them... while some go on to become allies, reform, or do good deeds.

[Jebel Krong]

Lumikki wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

where do you get renegade = negative? take re-writing the geth: that one could easily come back and bite you later, by far the safer option was to kill the heretics, safeguarding both of you in the future.

I never sayed that postive action can't bite in you ass or that negaive action can't have postive result.
I say most the time postive leads in postive result and most the time negative leads in negative result.

Killing other person is ALLWAYS negative, even when it saves 1 000 000 000 000 000 people. It's not the result that defines it, but the action it self.

naive and incorrect: 1 life for 1 million/whatever lives is not a negative outcome just because it requires taking that one life - that is also the sort of thinking that would get a paragon into all sorts of trouble and end in failure. real life doesn't work that way, nor should good fiction.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 06 juillet 2011 - 11:08 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Lumikki wrote...
Like above I never sayed that no good can come from negative action, I say, usually it doesn't happen. Like sometimes positive action can have negative result, but usually that doesn't happen. This isn't some 50/50 situation.

Paragon, renegade or neutral, they all allways lead in same end result in all Biowares games. If you haven't yet noticed.

As has been said, Renegade "decisions" are more agressive than they are negative.  Letting the Council die in the face of all life (including the Council) dying is not a "negative decision."  It's realizing that all life everywhere was at stake and they were on a time table.

Going after the Council at that moment put the entire galaxy (including the Council) at risk.

And to restate once more, the issue is Paragon favoritism... I doubt anyone's debating whether a side can beat the Reapers or not.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 06 juillet 2011 - 11:09 .

[ThePwener]

It really doesn't matter in the end. As long as your not a complete moron (suicide mission gone wrong) you'll be fine and likely only lose a few people/nations.

[TobyHasEyes]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
Like above I never sayed that no good can come from negative action, I say, usually it doesn't happen. Like sometimes positive action can have negative result, but usually that doesn't happen. This isn't some 50/50 situation.

Paragon, renegade or neutral, they all allways lead in same end result in all Biowares games. If you haven't yet noticed.

As has been said, Renegade "decisions" are more agressive than they are negative.  Letting the Council die in the face of all life (including the Council) dying is not a "negative decision."  It's realizing that all life everywhere was at stake and they were on a time table.

Going after the Council at that moment put the entire galaxy (including the Council) at risk.

And to restate once more, the issue is Paragon favoritism... I doubt anyone's debating whether a side can beat the Reapers or not.

 Just a point.. focusing on Sovereign was not necessarily a Renegade choice, there is a neutral option in which you let the Council die 

[GodWood]

Lumikki wrote...
Killing other person is ALLWAYS negative, even when it saves 1 000 000 000 000 000 people. It's not the result that defines it, but the action it self.

So with your twisted 'morals' the positive thing to do is let the 1 000 000 000 000 000 people die?

[Mr. Gogeta34]

It'd be nice to be able to make a "tough" choice in Mass Effect 3... without "knowing" that the blue button always provides the most positive outcome regardless of what's at stake.

[ThePwener]

GodWood wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
Killing other person is ALLWAYS negative, even when it saves 1 000 000 000 000 000 people. It's not the result that defines it, but the action it self.

So with your twisted 'morals' the positive thing to do is let the 1 000 000 000 000 000 people die?

And I thought I was hardcore. Jesus!

[Lumikki]

Seboist wrote...


Yeah, like with killing Helena Blake and Fist,does crime go down? Does another gang or crimelord take their place? Does ANYTHING happen? According to ME2 there's just nothing.

So, what you expect that when you kill someone, some other character comes to you in next game and say  "Thanks to making me new crime boss". Why would anyone do that, if they know you killed last one and You are know to be bad ass?

Renegade action causes you target to be dead, so those target can not do anything for you anymore.
Paragon action helps those people, so they may send e-mail, "thanks for saving me". Because they are alive and can do it.

Now what you people really complain is why can't paragon action, like letting some to live bite paragons ass. Good question, because sooner or later I would expect it to happen. Because renegade action does not cause direct positive result, because only positive result in negative action is preventing something to happen in later, while in positive action can cause it to happen later.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

 Just a point.. focusing on Sovereign was not necessarily a Renegade choice, there is a neutral option in which you let the Council die 

While true, both award Renegade points and both aren't the Paragon choice (which gets to not only save the Council and stop Sovereign in time, but also lose less lives in the process).

Additionally, the Renegade choice is the neutral choice with malice against the Council added in.  But that still doesn't change the scenario.

[Tamahome560]

Butthurt renegades? You should have known that the blue option=win, its a basic video game science that any gamer should be aware of, geez.

[Lumikki]

GodWood wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
Killing other person is ALLWAYS negative, even when it saves 1 000 000 000 000 000 people. It's not the result that defines it, but the action it self.

So with your twisted 'morals' the positive thing to do is let the 1 000 000 000 000 000 people die?

And because you saved those 1 000 000 000 000 000 people by killing one, one of those save persons ended hole life in the hole galaxy. So, in end you killed all life by killing that one person.

That's why actions can be judge only by what is the nature the action it self. Because there is no end in chain of reactions.

Modifié par Lumikki, 06 juillet 2011 - 11:21 .

[ThePwener]

Lumikki wrote...

And because you saved those 1 000 000 000 000 000 people by killing one, one of those save persons ended hole life in the hole galaxy. So, in end you killed all life by killing that one person.

That's why actions can be judge only by what the nature the action it self has. Because there is no end in chain of reactions.

Im sorry.... WHAT!?

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Tamahome560 wrote...

Butthurt renegades? You should have known that the blue option=win, its a basic video game science that any gamer should be aware of, geez.

Red option = win too... that's not what's being discussed.  Move along.

[Lumikki]

ThePwener wrote...

Im sorry.... WHAT!?

If you think it for while, maybe someday you will understand the meaning of it.

[ThePwener]

Lumikki wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Im sorry.... WHAT!?

If you think it for while, maybe someday you will understand the meaning of it.

And maybe someday you'll learn how NOT to commit genocide.

[Tamahome560]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Tamahome560 wrote...

Butthurt renegades? You should have known that the blue option=win, its a basic video game science that any gamer should be aware of, geez.

Red option = win too... that's not what's being discussed.  Move along.

Excuse me sir, but isn't the OP just about that? Also the thread title, have a nice day sir, 

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Lumikki wrote...

And because you saved those 1 000 000 000 000 000 people by killing one, one of those save persons ended hole life in the hole galaxy. So, in end you killed all life by killing that one person.

That's why actions can be judge only by what is the nature the action it self. Because there is no end in chain of reactions.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your reasoning here.  Why are you speculating that 1 out of those 1 000 000 000 000 000 people you saved turns around and ends 'hole life in the hole galaxy'?

[GodWood]

Lumikki wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
Killing other person is ALLWAYS negative, even when it saves 1 000 000 000 000 000 people. It's not the result that defines it, but the action it self.

So with your twisted 'morals' the positive thing to do is let the 1 000 000 000 000 000 people die?

And because you saved those 1 000 000 000 000 000 people by killing one, one of those save persons ended hole life in the hole galaxy. So, in end you killed all life by killing that one person.

That's why actions can be judge only by what is the nature the action it self. Because there is no end in chain of reactions.

And that one person you selfishly let live at the cost of 1 000 000 000 000 000 lives grows up to be a baby eating rapist, who eventually wipes out all life in the galaxy.


See, two can play at that stupid game.

Modifié par GodWood, 06 juillet 2011 - 11:33 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Tamahome560 wrote...
Excuse me sir, but isn't the OP just about that? Also the thread title, have a nice day sir, 

The OP could've made the title better, but the content of his post makes clear what he meant.  You have a nice day as well.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

GodWood wrote...
And that one person you selfishly let live at the cost of 1 000 000 000 000 000 lives grows up to be a baby eating rapist, who eventually wipes out all life in the galaxy.


See, two can play at that stupid game.

Lol, in that case I'd say a baby-raping eatist would be more horrifying.

[ThePwener]

What does he mean by ending (W)hole life in the (W)hole galaxy? That makes no ****ing sense, nobody can do that.

I say troll.

[Pharos]

Off Topic: There is never an excuse for taking a life...there can, however, be compelling and even apparently good reasons to do so. Sometimes the other options are worse./Off Topic

I think that the positive/negative consequences of Shep's actions will be much clearer, and varied, in ME3. Being the middle installment, ME2 had limitations on immediate consequences of actions since it would vastly increase the number of plot threads ME3 would have to be able to tie into. This isn't a problem faced by the final game.

For instance I can easily see Fist becoming a problem for Aria and Helena Blake may or may not fall back into old habits...And Toombs might be a problem for Paragons too. In ME2 the consequences for potting npc's in ME1 only seems to make Renegade options appear to be the one being punished (since they're, y'know, not there). It won't be until ME3 that we'll see which options bite Shep in the rear hardest.

As far as actual plot decisions (Rachni, Collector Base etc) I imagine that the will be both good and bad consequences for both Paragon and Renegade paths. 

Wild Speculation Below:

Killed the Rachni? Then you shouldn't face them at all.
Saved the Rachni? Then you might end up facing indocrinated ones but if you deal with them, you'll get another ally in the fight against the Reapers.
Let the Council die? Then many races have probably built up their fleets (I believe the Turians do, anyway)...on the other hand they might be less willing to let you use them, but at least they'd distract the Reapers for a while longer.
Saved the Council (or the dreadnought they're on, anyway)? Then the races are less prepared to fight a war, on the other hand they're more likely to accept joint operations...
Blew up the Heretic Base? Then there are still active Heretics running around the galaxy, helping the Reapers, and possibly still maintaining active run-times within the Geth...on the other hand the Quarians probably like you alot.
Used the Virus? Then the Heretics are almost, if not entirely, gone. The Geth, with access to their memories, may or may not learn interesting things about the Reapers. But now the Quarians don't trust you so much and the Virus may have left the Geth vulnerable to further Reaper manipulation.
Kept the Collector Base? Then Cerberus is going to be harder to deal with, but you might find some interesting toys once you've done so.
Blew the Collector Base to hell? the cerberus might be easier to deal with but then the fight against the Reapers might end up being harder.

Modifié par Pharos, 06 juillet 2011 - 11:43 .

[Massadonious1]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
 favoritism comes in when the opinion is unanimous

And any sort of "punishment" would just be the reverse. The game tells me I should of done it from the other way from the start, which is stupid. There should simply be different methods, not a "right" or "wrong" way.

You want acknowledgement, that's fine. Paragons certainly get plenty of it. But I refuse to accept anything too drastic, nor would I wish the same on you.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 06 juillet 2011 - 11:48 .

[ThePwener]

Pharos wrote...

Wild spot-on Speculation Below:

Killed the Rachni? Then you shouldn't face them at all.
Saved the Rachni? Then you might end up facing indocrinated ones but if you deal with them, you'll get another ally in the fight against the Reapers.
Let the Council die? Then many races have probably built up their fleets (I believe the Turians do, anyway)...on the other hand they might be less willing to let you use them, but at least they'd distract the Reapers for a while longer.
Saved the Council (or the dreadnought they're on, anyway)? Then the races are less prepared to fight a war, on the other hand they're more likely to accept joint operations...
Blew up the Heretic Base? Then there are still active Heretics running around the galaxy, helping the Reapers, and possibly still maintaining active run-times within the Geth...on the other hand the Quarians probably like you alot.
Used the Virus? Then the Heretics are almost, if not entirely, gone. The Geth, with access to their memories, may or may not learn interesting things about the Reapers. But now the Quarians don't trust you so much and the Virus may have left the Geth vulnerable to further Reaper manipulation.
Kept the Collector Base? Then Cerberus is going to be harder to deal with, but you might find some interesting toys once you've done so.
Blew the Collector Base to hell? the cerberus might be easier to deal with but then the fight against the Reapers might end up being harder.

Do you work for BW? I think you work for BW. Are you Casey Hudson? I think your Casey Hudson.