1768 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Ryzaki wrote...
But they weren't engineered by TIM. They can't be stopped by TIM. They're coming regardless. That's why I don't consider it similar to the Overlord incident. Their fears were planted by TIM. It wasn't some outside force. 

He doesn't have to. The sheer fear was enough. Why be so scared? Look at Teltin more fear about failing TIM. Why would two totally different sectors both manage to hide their dealings with TIM and be scared enough of his reliation to go to extreme measures if all he was gonna do would be shut them down? Why would the Teltin people go so far unless they were concerned about TIM not getting results? 

I understand your reasoning, but TIM is a manipulator and I don't isolate threats he makes to ones he can personally make good on.  He knew Shepard was against the Reapers and used the threat of them killing everything to get his compliance.

As far as the scientists, they didn't sound scared at Teltin either (sounding more like they were going to pull a fast one on TIM... confident that things would work out later).  The only thing they likely feared would be not getting any more money and subjects.  It's very easy for secret project scientists to develop god complexes... and become obsessed with their work.  That's where the whole 'mad scientist' notion probably stems from. 

TIM pays extremely well, it's likely that the scientists enjoyed their lifestyle while working for Cerberus and did not want it to change.  Another driving force is that scientists that Cerberus would employ are those that get into their work and could even make it their own personal endeavor.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Oh my, you are more full of BS than I ever imagined.

Oh, you're the one to speak, Mr. Minority Defender.

Until you can prove that three-four more ships would've tipped the balance in the fight ( which I doubt, since Sovereign literally went through one of them without giving a damn) just shut the hell up with your petty insults. 

[Ryzaki]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
I understand your reasoning, but TIM is a manipulator and I don't isolate threats he makes to ones he can personally make good on.  He knew Shepard was against the Reapers and used the threat of them killing everything to get his compliance.

As far as the scientists, they didn't sound scared at Teltin either (sounding more like they were going to pull a fast one on TIM... confident that things would work out later).  The only thing they likely feared would be not getting any more money and subjects.  It's very easy for secret project scientists to develop god complexes... and become obsessed with their work.  That's where the whole 'mad scientist' notion probably stems from. 

TIM pays extremely well, it's likely that the scientists enjoyed their lifestyle while working for Cerberus and did not want it to change.  Another driving force is that scientists that Cerberus would employ are those that get into their work and could even make it their own personal endeavor.

 

But that's not an engineered by him situation like the other incidents. It will happen regardless. There's no stopping it. 

They sounded scared to me, and they couldn't have been that attached to the lifestyle with how eager they were to piggyback on the alliance program. That said different views I guess. 

[Praetor Knight]

With Cerberus scientists, it sounds like that old adage, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

They helped get the first Normandy built, remember? They also saved the Council.

The batarian attack that was never mentioned to anyone outside Cerberus? Yeah. Sure.

And again, they have money. There's nothing special about that.

Oh, and by the way, the turians came up with the Thanix cannon, which is a lot better than any of the Normandy's armaments. The improved armor design? Not from Cerberus. The improved shields? Not Cerberus either.
 

[Ryzaki]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

With Cerberus scientists, it sounds like that old adage, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And now those morons are indoctrinated. I'm not sure whether to laugh or facepalm. 

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

What you are essentially doing is meta-gaming.

And I should give a flying **** about meta-gaming, because...?

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Ryzaki wrote...

But that's not an engineered by him situation like the other incidents. It will happen regardless. There's no stopping it. 

They sounded scared to me, and they couldn't have been that attached to the lifestyle with how eager they were to piggyback on the alliance program. That said different views I guess. 

I'm aware of that, but I don't believe threats have to come from one source to be used by one man.

The only fear I heard on Teltin was when they weren't telling TIM what they had been doing and feared TIM finding out.  It would be speculation.. but that's the point I was making.

When it comes time to point the finger, Cerberus is not as bad as they seem and can't take credit for everything done under their banner based on what we've seen for absolute certain (as far as who did what/ordered what/etc.).  It also calls into question everything they were accused of doing in the past.

That's not to say they're saints though... because they're most definitely not... just not as bad (with numerous eamples to back it)

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 09 juillet 2011 - 08:50 .

[Ryzaki]

They were firing at Sovereign a decent while by the time Shepard gets the choice to save the DA weren't they? By that time it should be obvious to Shepard it's not working.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

EDI? Better than all of those combined and she IS Cerberus. Not to mention the ship itself. That other stuff is useful but not mission critical.

No, but I'd rather go in prepared than to look like a total twerp when the ship gets royally messed up and people I can use later dies.

And EDI was just designed by Cerberus. Her allegiance is with the crew. Which isn't all-Cerberus at all.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 09 juillet 2011 - 08:50 .

[Aimi]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Shepard doesn't know what it will or won't take to destroy Sovereign. That uncertainty is why he can't afford to waste reinforcements on the Council.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by this.  If I had to guess, I'd say that you seem to think that "saving the Council" and "destroying Sovereign" are mutually exclusive goals.

[Ryzaki]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
I'm aware of that, but I don't believe threats have to come from one source to be used by one man.

The only fear I heard on Teltin was when they weren't telling TIM what they had been doing and feared TIM finding out.  It would be speculation.. but that's the point I was making.

When it comes time to point the finger, Cerberus is not as bad as they seem and can't take credit for everything done under their banner based on what we've seen for absolute certain (as far as who did what/ordered what/etc.).

 

Me either but the threat does have to be manufactured by the party trying to threaten you. (Like someone spreading a secret). The Reapers are gonna always be coming period. FULL STOP. Nothing NO ONE does is changing that. They would've kidnapped the colonists regardless. Shepard would've found out regardless. TIM is simply giving Shepard information. That's all. 

Reapers =! speculation. The Reapers are coming and Shepard knows that. It's a fear but it's a fact. 

Cerberus is pretty bad but that's not my issue. My issue is they're stupid. I love evil geniuses (hi Light!) but evil IDIOTS ****** me off. Cerberus is the latter. They do unethical experiments...that give them much worse results than their ethical ones (the UE ones tend to blow up astronomically in their faces) and don't learn from it. They make enemies left and right and are just Ugh. They're not even grey. They're just dumb. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juillet 2011 - 08:53 .

[Ryzaki]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

EDI? Better than all of those combined and she IS Cerberus. Not to mention the ship itself. That other stuff is useful but not mission critical.

No, but I'd rather go in prepared than to look like a total twerp when the ship gets royally messed up and people I can use later dies.

And EDI was just designed by Cerberus. Her allegiance is with the crew. Which isn't all-Cerberus at all.

Not to mention Joker wasn't exactly easily replaced in the mission. Joker's piloting skills handily contributed as well.  

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Ryzaki wrote...

They were firing at Sovereign a decent while by the time Shepard gets the choice to save the DA weren't they? By that time it should be obvious to Shepard it's not working.

I don't believe so... the arms were closed at that time.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

You should care because if you meta-game then there is no debate.

If you just want to meta-game then I'll say Shepard shouldn't ever worry about winning or losing because he knows he'll always win because it's a video game.

Considering how ****ty and forced your counter-arguments are, I don't even want to. I'm just poking you for laughs.

[Ryzaki]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
I don't believe so... the arms were closed at that time.

 

Ah that is true. Stupid cutscene I gotta replay ME1...again.  Wait...so no one was firing at it when it went into the arms? 

[Ryzaki]

And all those traps were laid for...wait for it...Shepard! So Cerberus wouldn't have gotten anywhere without Shepard being resurrected! 

FP - Tali wouldn't have worked with Cerberus. Most likely would've ended in a firefight. It's a cointoss as to who would've won. Might not have gotten Veetor's data. 

Horizon - Collector's only go there because VS's connection to Shepard. No Shepard no reason to go there. without Veetor's data (they likely would've gotten it) no seeker swarm cure, game over

CS - trap for Shepard no Shepard, no reason for trap. Never would've learned about Protheans and IFF

With that Cerberus *can't* reach the CB.  Reapers win! 

Harby's obsession with Shepard's body screwed him over. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juillet 2011 - 09:03 .