1768 réponses à ce sujet

[Mykel54]

It could be argued that saving the ascension is a decent tactical decision too, if you want to kill sovereign then the ascension is one mothership that has a hell of a firepower. You know that in the final battle it doesn´t happen, but shepard may think that the ascension firepower was needed to kill sovereign. It is not only a question of saving the council or not, it is also about whenever you think the ascension is needed to fight agaisnt sovereign or if you think that it is useless and not worth the effort into saving it.

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

daqs wrote...

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by this.  If I had to guess, I'd say that you seem to think that "saving the Council" and "destroying Sovereign" are mutually exclusive goals.

They are to someone who doesn't already know the outcome. Without meta-gaming Shepard doesn't know what will happen. All he knows is that saving the DA is risky because it might leave the fleet too weak to take Sovereign down. If that happens then the Reapers come through and all sentient life is extinguished.

That should have been obvious though.

Nevertheless, Shepard might have had some political savvy to see the value in at least trying to save the DA.

The convos with Al-Jilani, the Rear Admiral and that dude on Feros at least demonstrates a quality for such consideration by Shepard in ME1.

Edit: I forgot to qualify the quality, with enough charm / intimidate skill Shepard could.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 09 juillet 2011 - 09:06 .

[Dave of Canada]

Mykel54 wrote...

It could be argued that saving the ascension is a decent tactical decision too, if you want to kill sovereign then the ascension is one mothership that has a hell of a firepower.

It's half destroyed, you hear the warning where it says most of it's systems are offline and it's shields are about to go down. Any firepower it could provide would be less from potential losses eliminating the Geth fleet focusing their fire on the Destiny Ascension.

[Ryzaki]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Nevertheless, Shepard might have had some political savvy to see the value in at least trying to save the DA.

Oh yeah, politics will be really helpful when Sovereign opens the relay, gaining control of the relay network in the process, and promptly kills you.

Yeah totally that wasn't happening when those 8 extra ships were hitting Sovereign for 0 damage either? Those eight ships mustve had magical Thannix cannons that did invisible damage.  

Let's not pretend those ships were gonna help. The only thing that helped was Sovereign dropping 100 IQ Points. 

That said I RP my Shep as genre savvy. He had enough sense to realize massive ship from 50K years ago probably wasn't gonna be hurt by mere dreadnought fire. There's a reason the Reapers kill them at a certain level of advancement. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juillet 2011 - 09:09 .

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Nevertheless, Shepard might have had some political savvy to see the value in at least trying to save the DA.

Oh yeah, politics will be really helpful when Sovereign opens the relay, gaining control of the relay network in the process, and promptly kills you.

True but if you survive, you gain political capital with the Council and the Alliance. But then Shepard "dies", and that is more or less reset in ME2.

[Dave of Canada]

Ryzaki wrote...

Let's not pretend those ships were gonna help. The only thing that helped was Sovereign dropping 100 IQ Points. 

How does Shepard know this?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 09 juillet 2011 - 09:09 .

[Ieldra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

daqs wrote...
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by this.  If I had to guess, I'd say that you seem to think that "saving the Council" and "destroying Sovereign" are mutually exclusive goals.

They are to someone who doesn't already know the outcome. Without meta-gaming Shepard doesn't know what will happen. All he knows is that saving the DA is risky because it might leave the fleet too weak to take Sovereign down. If that happens then the Reapers come through and all sentient life is extinguished.

That should have been obvious though.

Exactly.

Judging from only the info Shepard has at the time, saving the DA is a risk they cannot afford.

The problem is that any benefit from saving the Council is contingent on the survival of the galaxy, which at this point is not assured.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 juillet 2011 - 09:11 .

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, let's kill off the three leaders of the races that might be able to help us in the future when it comes to political decisions and such. That's smart.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 09 juillet 2011 - 09:10 .

[nhsk]

Well as the paragon way of seing things, you don't go for your own political capital but rather that of humanity...

[Ryzaki]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Let's not pretend those ships were gonna help. The only thing that helped was Sovereign dropping 100 IQ Points. 

How does Shepard know this?

By being genre savvy. 

Really a 50K ship isn't gonna march in with a few ships at its head unless it has an ace up its sleeve. The Citadel was one such ace but it needs to get there first and the thing is fully aware that Shepard is chasing it. It's woefully unconcered about that matter. Why would it not care unless it knew it had nothing to be concerned about? My Shep pretty much figured the Reapers reaped them because it knew it would be impervious to there weapons unless a weakspot was hit. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juillet 2011 - 09:13 .

[TobyHasEyes]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

They weren't? Yeah. Go ahead and believe that. You are really naive if you think Cerberus would give up a advantage they have over the Alliance, to the Alliance.

They helped get the first Normandy built, remember? They also saved the Council.

 Not getting into this debate, but just curious about Cerberus' involvement in the first Normandy, where is that information from?

[Ryzaki]

..gah I hate when BSN does this.

[Dave of Canada]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, let's kill off the three leaders of the races that might be able to help us in the future when it comes to political decisions and such. That's smart.

Let's risk destroying the entire galaxy to save three political figures that would mean absolutely nothing if the galaxy is destroyed. That's smart too!

[Ieldra]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Yeah, let's kill off the three leaders of the races that might be able to help us in the future when it comes to political decisions and such. That's smart.

It doesn't matter if you're dead. And "everyone dies" is exactly the risk you run with saving the DA. Defeating Sovereign is, at this point in time, the only goal that matters.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 juillet 2011 - 09:12 .

[Ryzaki]

I really wish people stopped acting like the loss of eight *HUMAN* ships were seriously going to affect the battle with Sovereign. It wasn't. Even while in character it wasn't going to.  Shepard's only hope is when Sovereign assumes direct control and is slain leaving himself in KO (or dead...not sure which). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juillet 2011 - 09:15 .

[Barquiel]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
Yeah, let's kill off the three leaders of the races that might be able to help us in the future when it comes to political decisions and such. That's smart.

It doesn't matter if you're dead. And "everyone dies" is exactly the risk you run with saving the DA. Defeating Sovereign is, at this point in time, the only goal that matters.

What if the Geth ships which you failed to destroy prevent you from defeating Sovereign?

[Dave of Canada]

Ryzaki wrote...

Really a 50K ship isn't gonna march in with a few ships at its head unless it has an ace of its sleeve.

Those few ships was an entire geth fleet, enough to devastate the Council fleet. Sovereign killed how many Council ships during the invasion of the Citadel? 3-4? Everything else was the Geth, which devastated the Council fleet and left them in a position weak enough that humans had the superior military might afterward.

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

True but IF you survive, you gain political capital with the Council and the Alliance. But then Shepard "dies", and that is more or less reset in ME2.

There's a reason Shepard is made a Spectre, Nihlus seemed to notice something after all, to bother testing Shepard in the first place.

And Shepard seemed capable of exceeding expectations without a proper tutor.