1768 réponses à ce sujet

[this isnt my name]

aang001 wrote...

Paulinius wrote...

There should be both paragon and renegade options that help you and screw you over.

I agree. Renegade was never defined properly and I never got why you always got punished for renegade actions. Sometimes your not in the mood to listen to a 10 min speech and you are SHEPARD. You shouldnt have to take everything just to be a good guy. Or just like the keeping the Reaper tech. You should maybe get an advantage that you cant as a good guy and maybe end the war quicker. Maybe it backfires on you depending on your decision in ME3 or works to your advantage and in the long run keeping it was the better decision, but not giving it to the I.M. I want Renegade to have a win ending as well. It might involve more casualties, but if the galaxy is safe, why not, sort of thing?

Ha you still think BW will punish the paragons ?

Please, its obvious when you look at what renegade choices are, you have 3 flavours of renegade.

Thug.
Racist.
Practical.

Only once have we seeen the practical choice and that was ignore the council, but soverign dies either way... So its pointless and can be twisted into the racist catagory "hurrr council die, HUMAN SUPREMICY".

[Kaiser Shepard]

this isnt my name wrote...

aang001 wrote...

Paulinius wrote...

There should be both paragon and renegade options that help you and screw you over.

I agree. Renegade was never defined properly and I never got why you always got punished for renegade actions. Sometimes your not in the mood to listen to a 10 min speech and you are SHEPARD. You shouldnt have to take everything just to be a good guy. Or just like the keeping the Reaper tech. You should maybe get an advantage that you cant as a good guy and maybe end the war quicker. Maybe it backfires on you depending on your decision in ME3 or works to your advantage and in the long run keeping it was the better decision, but not giving it to the I.M. I want Renegade to have a win ending as well. It might involve more casualties, but if the galaxy is safe, why not, sort of thing?

Ha you still think BW will punish the paragons ?

Please, its obvious when you look at what renegade choices are, you have 3 flavours of renegade.

Thug.
Racist.
Practical.

Only once have we seeen the practical choice and that was ignore the council, but soverign dies either way... So its pointless and can be twisted into the racist catagory "hurrr council die, HUMAN SUPREMICY".

Most Renegade choices are practical from a "better safe than sorry" standpoint, from the Rachni Queen to Sovereign, and from the Genophage to the Heretic Geth decision.

[Markinator_123]

Ryzaki wrote...

I will lol so hard if for people who killed the council the alien races do the same thing. They just sit and watch Earth's ships get destroyed and only attack the Reapers when they get too close to harming the alien ships. "you don't stick out your neck for us why should we stick ours out for you?" 

Let me just tell you something. Internationally speaking, every race only cares about its own self-interest at heart. Believing otherwise is completely naive. If you saved the council, what makes you think that the aliens races will just show up and save humans? It is just because they think humans are nice? Oh please!

[mauro2222]

Markinator_123 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I will lol so hard if for people who killed the council the alien races do the same thing. They just sit and watch Earth's ships get destroyed and only attack the Reapers when they get too close to harming the alien ships. "you don't stick out your neck for us why should we stick ours out for you?" 

Let me just tell you something. Internationally speaking, every race only cares about its own self-interest at heart. Believing otherwise is completely naive. If you saved the council, what makes you think that the aliens races will just show up and save humans? It is just because they think humans are nice? Oh please!

Nope, because they know that humans are willing to sacrifice for them. And them will make the same sacrifice for the humans.

[Ryzaki]

Markinator_123 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I will lol so hard if for people who killed the council the alien races do the same thing. They just sit and watch Earth's ships get destroyed and only attack the Reapers when they get too close to harming the alien ships. "you don't stick out your neck for us why should we stick ours out for you?" 

Let me just tell you something. Internationally speaking, every race only cares about its own self-interest at heart. Believing otherwise is completely naive. If you saved the council, what makes you think that the aliens races will just show up and save humans? It is just because they think humans are nice? Oh please!

Uh no it's called good will and history. They'll stick their necks out for humaniy because they know if push comes for shove humans will do the same thing. Give and take, something any child with common sense learns early on. Exactly why if you save the council the Turians and humans are starting to get along and the alien races are *trying* (sending aid vessals) to the disappearing colonies. Sadly since the council is such idiots nothing can else be done. 

The two will start you know...working together. Has less to do with "humans are nice" and more to do with "humans are dependable". Since they know they can count on humans (and aren't gearing up for a war after the Reapers are gone) they don't need to be extremely self reliant and make sure they're not at all vulnerable so humanity can grab even more power. They'll help save humanity because shock of shock a dependable ally that you actually like is a good thing .

I am not arguing that they'll send all their battleships. That's not nice thats stupid. But they will more than likely be willin to sacrifice ships and resources to humanity that they wouldn't otherwise. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juillet 2011 - 06:20 .

[Ryzaki]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Oh really, like they did during the Collector attacks? Whether you saved the Council or not you're going to have kick their asses to get their help.

The Collector attacks that left behind no evidence of what happened [save Horizon (after which said attacks stop *or at least I didn't hear about another colony vanishing*) and FP (FP the only evidence is taken by Cerberus who doesn't share it with anyone)] (and there's no way of telling what colonies were gonna be hit) and the confused aliens sent aid vessels but they were just as confused as everyone else? 

What pray tell *could* they have done? Sending military ships all over the terminus colonies? They can't risk a war with the terminus systems not to mention they have no targets to protect. There are probably hundreds of human colonies that they'd need to protect. It's unreasonable. They can only react once the attacks happen or they get a heads up that a certain area was gonna be attacked....which they never do. 

Contrast to the Reapers who...obvious reapers reaping earth are obvious. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juillet 2011 - 07:42 .

[Someone With Mass]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Collector attacks that left behind no evidence of what happened [save Horizon (after which said attacks stop *or at least I didn't hear about another colony vanishing*) and FP (FP the only evidence is taken by Cerberus who doesn't share it with anyone) where Shep got their first] (and there's no way of telling what colonies were gonna be hit) and the confused aliens sent aid vessels but they were just as confused as everyone else? 

What pray tell *could* they have done? Stending military ships all over the terminus colonies? They can't risk a war with the terminus systems not to mention they have no targets to protect. There are probably hundreds of human colonies that they'd need to protect. It's unreasonable. They can only react once the attacks happen. 

Contrast to the Reapers who...obvious reapers are obvious. 

That. It's like the deal with the Mu relay. The Council isn't going to act on a hunch, since it can trigger a interstellar war that they clearly don't want or need at the time.

[Jebel Krong]

Ryzaki wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
Oh really, like they did during the Collector attacks? Whether you saved the Council or not you're going to have kick their asses to get their help.

The Collector attacks that left behind no evidence of what happened [save Horizon (after which said attacks stop *or at least I didn't hear about another colony vanishing*) and FP (FP the only evidence is taken by Cerberus who doesn't share it with anyone) where Shep got their first] (and there's no way of telling what colonies were gonna be hit) and the confused aliens sent aid vessels but they were just as confused as everyone else? 

What pray tell *could* they have done? Stending military ships all over the terminus colonies? They can't risk a war with the terminus systems not to mention they have no targets to protect. There are probably hundreds of human colonies that they'd need to protect. It's unreasonable. They can only react once the attacks happen. 

Contrast to the Reapers who...obvious reapers are obvious. 

cerberus leaked some details to the alliance to get the VS to show up, only the alliance thought Cerberus was behind it anyway.

[Ryzaki]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Right, and apparently nobody cared to investigate. When asked the Council said "it is a human matter". Sorry kid, but you look like a fool preaching about good will when the Council has consistently shown, in both games and in the lore, that they will NOT stick their necks out for humanity.

When they ally with us in ME3 it will be because it strategically benefits them, not for any other reason.

 

THEY DID INVESTIGATE. There was *nothing* there! 

What do you think the aid vessels were sent for? A swift but confused response! They sent people to help once the colonies went dark...but NOTHING WAS THERE. Thus the confusion. 

The council are idiots. And yeah despite saying "it's a human matter" they send aid vessels. Huh. Odd that. I wonder why. Maybe they just feed apolitical line so they could investigate in peace. ...nah can't be that. I mean obviously they give Shepard carte blanche because they're woefully unconcerned about humanity. And despite the "stay in the terminus systems" lines no one bothers Shepard when he's not in them...wonder why? 

They don't stick their necks out because there's no benefit for anyone in them doing so! Not humanity not them! There's no clear targets to protect. There's no enemy to fight. The one thing they can do will end up making the situation worse. The collectors are largely unknown and unreacheable to them. If Cerberus had shared the data and they still did nothing you'd have a point. 

*shrugs* Wait till ME3 comes out. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juillet 2011 - 07:49 .

[Ryzaki]

Saphra Deden wrote...
No, the Alliance did. The Council didn't care at all.

"The colony attacks are a human concern."

They outright refuse to even investigate the matter.

Good lord, I knew some of you were wrapped but this is just sad.

Is this like battered housewife syndrome or something?

"The Council ignores me because it loves me..."

 

You know the baiting is tiresome. It's obvious you have no counterpoints since you need to ignore the bit that prove you wrong (aid being sent). Go ahead and stick your head in the sand. 

Not to mention it was the turian douchebag who said that. And really the council was totally unsupportive yo. That's why Kaidan/Ashley was made Spectre yo. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juillet 2011 - 08:08 .

[nhsk]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Right, and apparently nobody cared to investigate. When asked the Council said "it is a human matter". Sorry kid, but you look like a fool preaching about good will when the Council has consistently shown, in both games and in the lore, that they will NOT stick their necks out for humanity.

When they ally with us in ME3 it will be because it strategically benefits them, not for any other reason.

Councilor Valern (the turian...) is even quoted "Having a seat on the council implies a race can handle their own problems while assisting others with theirs" when asked for help in investigating the colony attacks... I literally want to rip that idiots throat out in ME3.

[Grunk]

I'm surprised that people think the Council will do any good ever. They grudgingly give you Spectre status and send you after Saren, which felt more like a way to shut Udina up and try to take care of a possibly rogue agent simultaneously. Then they second-guess you and endlessly doubt what Shepard has to say, which in ME1, is somewhat reasonable. I mean, why would they believe some dude had a vision about mecha-Cthulu's blending everyone into a galactic organic smoothie?

However, my first problem with that is why would they appoint Shepard to the job if he's no better than a street corner doom-sayer? Second, Mecha-Cthulu DOES show up, and they still act like it's BS. At that point, I knew that if it wasn't an issue that threatened one of the races represented on the Council directly, then they just wouldn't give a damn about humans. Do I think it's an atrocious thing? Not really. I mean, look out for number one, right? I think it sucks, but whatever. It just lets me know that they're unreliable tools when it comes to the safety and success of humanity, and probably other species like Volus, Hanar, Quarians, etc.

My second beef is that after Shepard saves their miserable, ingrateful lives and actually comes back from DEATH to talk to them, they still treat him like a doom-saying freak. Come on, Shep's stopped Saren, saved the Citadel, saved the Council's lives, and they still act like he's full of crap? It's clear that there's no sense of goodwill for them, only physical and political self-preservation. Again, I don't expect much better out of them, but it's really just a pile of crap. At least Anderson/Udina is there to help out humanity in spite of them.

To go back on topic, I feel like the fact that Paragon choices (not players, because it's really just a set of choices in terms of gameplay) lead to more feedback (and positive feedback at that, ie LESS PEOPLE DIED, HURRAY, HERE'S A CAMEO BTW) leads a lot of Renegade actions to feel like a fail condition. Not a game-stopping one, but still a kind of fail condition. If Renegade choices received the same amount of cameo/etc-type feedback, it wouldn't feel that way.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

THEY DID INVESTIGATE. There was *nothing* there!

No, the Alliance did. The Council didn't care at all.

"The colony attacks are a human concern."

They outright refuse to even investigate the matter.

Good lord, I knew some of you were wrapped but this is just sad.

Is this like battered housewife syndrome or something?

"The Council ignores me because it loves me..."

It's just as sad as you whining over the Council not investigating something they clearly want nothing to do with for obvious reasons.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...
So you admit they are unhelpful. We're making progress here.

Yes, because they don't want to start a war because of your bull****. That doesn't mean they can't help when the time arrives.

It's so thoroughly explained in the game, it's not even funny when you interpret it as "they can't help me now, so they can never help me, so I'm going to kill them".

But considering how dense you are, it's not that surprising.

[Slurms McKenzie]

@Saphra Deden

Hehe, well-played!

I like the way your mind works, Saphra!

Good Luck and Stay Safe

Modifié par Slurms McKenzie, 09 juillet 2011 - 08:27 .

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Well that settles the debate then. It's been fun. Chalk up another one for Saphra.

Was there any doubt?

Wow. Way to take my comments out of context, you ****ing twerp.

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...


Yes,

Well that settles the debate then. It's been fun. Chalk up another one for Saphra.

Was there any doubt?

[JamesStark]

It all honesty, I don't want victory based on my choices not because I specificly went with paragon ones.

I don't think we should get punished for be paragon though.
I don't think renagades should either.

[Someone With Mass]

JamesStark wrote...

It all honesty, I don't want victory based on my choices not because I specificly went with paragon ones.

I don't think we should get punished for be paragon though.
I don't think renagades should either.

Most major choices aren't determined by your Paragon/Renegade scores, anyway. it's just a bunch of brancing paths towards the goal you've set.