1768 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Ryzaki wrote...

There is no neutral council in ME2. Only the renegade or paragon choices were taken into account I believe. 

There is a neutral council, it just plays out the same way.  The Neutral Council has aliens, the Renegade one does not.  They also start the game differently depending on which choice you made there.

Not when someone says he finds your kind "disgusting" and "get away from me turian" while ignoring you. That's not friendship. 

Jack actually likes that kind of talk.

Normal council always stays out of your way. But I'm gonna be honest the number 1 reason I save the council is because I want my "ah yes 'reapers'." moment in ME3. 

lol, I'm keeping my original playthrough for both games as my "canon" Shepard.  I couldn't risk the entire galaxy just to save the Council.. though I was hoping the Council would just.. I dunno... eject from the Ascension or something.

[Ieldra]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

(2) Some Paragon decisions specifically run the risk of invoking a greater evil down the road along with the immediate good they achieve. We ask that this greater evil *sometimes* manifests. Example: the Rachni turn against you or are all indoctrinated in ME3.

GENOCIDE OF A SAPIENT SPECIES. 

I´ll take the risk, thanks. This one seems to be shaping to have both good and bad consequences however. More husks (and I really hope renegades don´t get them) vs less help for the counterattack on Earth.

This may surprise you, but I, too, always take the risk. But still I would not mind seeing that decision backfire badly.

[Ryzaki]

@Mr. Gogeta34: The neutral council is bugged to hell and back. I edited my post with links.

My Shepard ignores Jack.

My canon Shepard loves the council too much. They're make him facepalm and lol at the same time.

[Ieldra]

mauro2222 wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Ieldra2 - and, if you assaulted a news reporter, I hope your Shepard goes to jail for a good long time.

You seem to just want your style of play applauded - and the style of play you find "place whatever vitriolic word here" to be punished.

If you're an a-hole in real life - new friends don't just come along to fill the space. You end up alone and uncared for. That's not "misanthropes" being punished - that's a douche getting what he asked for.

What Ieldra2 means is that we don't make choices because we want to be a douchebag. We make some unpleasant choices because we believe they are better in the long run.

Like punching the news reporter?

I specifically said "Some Renegade decisions are pragmatic, and I want them sometimes to pay off". Punching the reporter is not one of the pragmatic decisions, it's just being a dick. I never take those.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Coolness, my Shepard tried to get Jack to open up. He liked her but not in a romance sort of way. Had to shut her down before going through the Alpha Relay... I really hope that doesn't come back to haunt me relationship-wise... because that Shep stayed loyal to Ashley.

That's another complaint, where's the "good friends" option for the tortured soul that is Jack?

[Seboist]

I would say that punching out Khalisah and that scientist on Eden Prime have a purpose beyond being just for the lulz. They helped me role play my colonist/ruthless Shepard as having a few screws loose and being filled with some rage like I intended.

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

GodWood wrote...

This seems perfectly fair and reasonable so what exactly is the other sides point?

They're just vindictive ****heads who can't ****ing read.

Paragons or Renegades?

[Ieldra]

Medhia Nox wrote...
Keeping the Collector base isn't a "tough choice". It's a purely selfish one based on the acquisition of power. Destroying it is the tough choice - because you're putting yourself at a disadvantage to do what you perceive as the right thing.

That's not a tough choice, that's a stupid choice - you're in a war for survival, remember? Against a technologically superior enemy, remember? You need every little scrap of power you can get. It's not like you're grabbing for the evil artifact of doom that will gain you total mastery over the universe. No..,the matter is survival. I could make a point that keeping the base is even morally superior.

Killing a giant space bug you've been told was responsible for a huge intergalactic war - and whose children you've just been slaughtering. What kind of "tough choice" is it to hit "Incinerate"?

You are, again, presupposing that Renegades don't care. I don't know about your Renegades, if you play them, but my Renegade Shepards are very much aware of what they're doing. They do not like it one bit. But they still do it because they think it's for the best in the long run. That's why it's a tough choice. You would like to do the immediate good here, you are aware that you're doing the immediate evil, but you still do it because you think the alternative can only end badly in the long run.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 juillet 2011 - 08:16 .

[Ryzaki]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Coolness, my Shepard tried to get Jack to open up. He liked her but not in a romance sort of way. Had to shut her down before going through the Alpha Relay... I really hope that doesn't come back to haunt me relationship-wise... because that Shep stayed loyal to Ashley.

That's another complaint, where's the "good friends" option for the tortured soul that is Jack?

She ninja'd you too? Did she tell you to f*uck off afterwards? 

I don't know. She needed one. 

I shouldn't have to screw her to get her to chillax. 

[Ieldra]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
And to restate for I don't know how many times... the issue is Favoritism, lol.

This. We can discuss single decisions and their merits elsewhere. Here it's about what mix of outcomes would be fair, considering that both Renegade and Paragon aspire to being a reasonable playstyle.

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The "Paragons". They very consistently misunderstand and misrepresent the argument being made in this thread.

But that may be said of both sides. And vindicative is such a strong word, at least to me.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Ryzaki wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Coolness, my Shepard tried to get Jack to open up. He liked her but not in a romance sort of way. Had to shut her down before going through the Alpha Relay... I really hope that doesn't come back to haunt me relationship-wise... because that Shep stayed loyal to Ashley.

That's another complaint, where's the "good friends" option for the tortured soul that is Jack?

She ninja'd you too? Did she tell you to f*uck off afterwards? 

I don't know. She needed one. 

I shouldn't have to screw her to get her to chillax. 

Yeah she got me, lol.  And yes, she told me that line too.

The canon excuse I came up with regarding her is that she'd gotten too soft.. we were about to enter the Relay and I needed her to be her normal aggressive self.  And because of that, she was able to survive... but hates me, lol.

[Ryzaki]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
Yeah she got me, lol.  And yes, she told me that line too.

The canon excuse I came up with regarding her is that she'd gotten too soft.. we were about to enter the Relay and I needed her to be her normal aggressive self.  And because of that, she was able to survive... but hates me, lol.

 

 Jack's in your Normandy, trying to ninjamance your Shepard...

I just stopped speaking to her unless I needed her loyalty mission. 

[Ieldra]

Ryzaki wrote...
My paragades are genre savvy. They tended to cut the council off but he knew humanity would need to goodwill of the other species to get anywhere. What better way to get goodwill than by saving their government and asking for nothing in return? And it pretty much went just as planned for him. The turians eased off their backs, they got some power and everything ended up gravy. He still got the "ah yes 'reapers'." but the council wasn't anti-humanity.

I don't mind the consequences of both decisions here. They're plausible, though I would've liked a little more appreciation from the human factions if I left the Council to die. Still, if you do a risk calculation at the time of the decision, you can't but notice that saving the Council is a gamble with the life of the galaxy. I think there should be people - even the Council itself - who call you out for that even if turns out for the best in the end.

And again, this is just one decision. If that goes in favor of Paragons it's OK with me. It's the pattern of Paragon favoritism over all the big decisions that I find annoying.
 

[Seboist]

Jack accuses my femshep of trying to get in her pants in the last convo they have. That's not cool.

[Ieldra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Just a list now I suppose:
Mostly positive outcomes:

• Saving the council
• Killing Balak
• Destroying the heretics
• Saving the Collector Base
• Saving Wrex
• Having everyone survive the SM
• Killing Vido
• Killing Morinth
• Killing Elnora
• Expose Pitne For
• Completing all the loyalty missions
• Having Miranda talk to her sister
• Having Grunt become part of Urdnot if Wrex is alive
• Have Jack not kill Aresh (for Jack anyway)
• Sparing Sidonis (Yeah I know but still...I don't like the thought of Garrus killing like that)
• Destroying the Greybox
• Keeping Tali's dad experiments hidden
• Killing Talid (if you let the Council die) 

Mostly negative outcomes

• Kiling the Council
• Sparing Balak
• Rewriting the heretics
• Killing Wrex
• Leting Grunt join Urdnot with Wreav
• Sparing Elnora
• Killing Samara
• Killing Talid (if spared the council)
• Killing Aresh (for Jack)
• Letting Kasumi keep the Greybox
• Exposing Tali's father's experiments (war with geth once they find out)
• Letting Legion transmit data to geth (same result as above)
• Having most die on the SM
• Not doing most (or all) of the loyalty missions
• Let Pitne For keep smuggling.

Neutral (positive and negative end up balancing out)

• - Destroying CB
• - Killing Sidonis

I mostly agree with these. Not so sure about Sidonis, though.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 juillet 2011 - 08:28 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Seboist wrote...

Jack accuses my femshep of trying to get in her pants in the last convo they have. That's not cool.

Yeah, not cool at all.. hopefully all becomes well in ME3.

Ryzaki wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
Yeah she got me, lol.  And yes, she told me that line too.

The canon excuse I came up with regarding her is that she'd gotten too soft.. we were about to enter the Relay and I needed her to be her normal aggressive self.  And because of that, she was able to survive... but hates me, lol.

 

 Jack's in your Normandy, trying to ninjamance your Shepard...

I just stopped speaking to her unless I needed her loyalty mission. 

In hindsight, that would've been a better idea... my Shep just wanted to reach out to her and show that not everyone just wants to jump her bones or take advantage of her.

Ieldra2 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
My paragades are genre savvy. They tended to cut the council off but he knew humanity would need to goodwill of the other species to get anywhere. What better way to get goodwill than by saving their government and asking for nothing in return? And it pretty much went just as planned for him. The turians eased off their backs, they got some power and everything ended up gravy. He still got the "ah yes 'reapers'." but the council wasn't anti-humanity.

I don't mind the consequences of both decisions here. They're plausible, though I would've liked a little more appreciation from the human factions if I left the Council to die. Still, if you do a risk calculation at the time of the decision, you can't but notice that saving the Council is a gamble with the life of the galaxy. I think there should be people - even the Council itself - who call you out for that even if turns out for the best in the end.

And again, this is just one decision. If that goes in favor of Paragons it's OK with me. It's the pattern of Paragon favoritism over all the big decisions that I find annoying.
 

And I.

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Not even getting to meet the new Council just wasn't very fun. A very poor decision on Bioware's part.

It's very irritating that they can create Wreav to replace Wrex but we're not able to see the new council.

[Praetor Knight]

Seboist wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Not even getting to meet the new Council just wasn't very fun. A very poor decision on Bioware's part.

It's very irritating that they can create Wreav to replace Wrex but we're not able to see the new council.

Considering the hours lost for ME2, I could understand, but ME3 might be a different story.

The Making of Mass Effect 2: How BioWare built a better space opera

[Ryzaki]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I don't mind the consequences of both decisions here. They're plausible, though I would've liked a little more appreciation from the human factions if I left the Council to die. Still, if you do a risk calculation at the time of the decision, you can't but notice that saving the Council is a gamble with the life of the galaxy. I think there should be people - even the Council itself - who call you out for that even if turns out for the best in the end.

And again, this is just one decision. If that goes in favor of Paragons it's OK with me. It's the pattern of Paragon favoritism over all the big decisions that I find annoying.
 

 

You should get a little more appreciation from humans I agree. I do want to be called out for saving the council! I was hoping that reporter would do it but then it turns out the DA had more people.  I do hope they at least bring it up during the trial as "evidence" that Shep's a traitor to humanity or some crap. 

Except I really don't see favortism over the big decisions. THe only big paragon decision that we've seen even *some* of the real fallout from is the Council. Sure the queen hasn't gone beserk yet but she has no reason too. The Reapers are unaware of her. Balak hasn't done anything at all. He hasn't reformed or attacked anyone. It's a black hole where *something* should've happened. So I don't see that as positive *or* negative. 

Though about Sidonis. I suppose it would depend on if Shep was trying to paragon or renegade Garrus. A paragon would benefit from sparing Sidonis, renegade Garrus would probably grow more from killing Sidonis. 

[Ryzaki]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
In hindsight, that would've been a better idea... my Shep just wanted to reach out to her and show that not everyone just wants to jump her bones or take advantage of her.

So did mine. Teach her that she *could* depend on people without them expecting anything from her or them trying to hurt her.  Sadly all I got was that brick wall because for some reason the ME team seems to think you can't have a friendship without wanting to bone someone if you're the opposite gender. <_<

[Ieldra]

Ryzaki wrote...
Except I really don't see favortism over the big decisions. THe only big paragon decision that we've seen even *some* of the real fallout from is the Council. Sure the queen hasn't gone beserk yet but she has no reason too. The Reapers are unaware of her. Balak hasn't done anything at all. He hasn't reformed or attacked anyone. It's a black hole where *something* should've happened. So I don't see that as positive *or* negative.

I agree it's still salvageable. But the way things are set up suggests that the pattern might hold:
(1) The Rachni queen has promised she'll help us
(2) Cerberus is working for the Reapers. That appears to invalidate saving the CB.

I don't think Bioware can backtrack on (1) convincingly without the cheap solution of having the queen indoctrinated, but the outcome of the CB decision is salvageable. The knowledge contained in it is still more accessible in a hostile Cerberus than it would be if only the Reapers had it, and it makes going through Cerberus to get at the Reapers more convincing. I just hope they won't fob of those who keep the base with a minor benefit with no storyline impact.