1768 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Dave of Canada wrote...

F00lishG wrote...

If you're going to be an out and out Renegade, you have to accept you won't get the best parts of the story. Being Ruthless is supposed to be its own reward.

Let's screw over Paragons then and say being nice is it's own reward.

Ooooooooo  pwnage.  +1 to Dave of Canada

[Comsky159]

I'd prefer something along the lines of paragon Shepard sacrifices his life as a consequence of more compassionate (or in the eyes of some, foolish) decisions while renegade Shepard survives the ending. I'd definitely support something like that.

[F00lishG]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

F00lishG wrote...

If you're going to be an out and out Renegade, you have to accept you won't get the best parts of the story. Being Ruthless is supposed to be its own reward.

Let's screw over Paragons then and say being nice is it's own reward.

Ooooooooo  pwnage.  +1 to Dave of Canada

Oh yeah indeed. Except for one thing. Being nice IS it's own reward. I'm Paragon or specifically Paragade because I choose to be not for some reward and I sure as hell never wanted or expected any such thing. Deal with the cards you dealt yourself and stop being jealous.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

There's no exception there when the topic is favoritism. The Paragon decisions didn't have to turn out like they did... the cards could have been dealt differently and I'm sure you would've had something different to say in that case...

Say... for example, trying to save the Council in that critical moment left no time to prevent Sovereign from summoning the Reapers and resulted in Critical Mission Failure... (the Council also dies).

Is it the thought that counts?

[Homebound]

why is it always red and blue? why cant it be orange and purple?

[Zigeroy]

I do hope there are a lot of cases where the nice decision was not the smart one, I just started my first renegade shep and already I fear that just because Im renegade im gonna lose some squadmates. And I also wouldnt consider the renegade a douche, just a 'Shoot First, Shoot Again, Shoot Some More And Then Try To Ask A Question Or Two' kinda guy.

[Dave of Canada]

F00lishG wrote...

Oh yeah indeed. Except for one thing. Being nice IS it's own reward. I'm Paragon or specifically Paragade because I choose to be not for some reward and I sure as hell never wanted or expected any such thing. Deal with the cards you dealt yourself and stop being jealous.

Or balance it out and there's no favortism to either side for cameos, consequences and benefits. I don't see why it's such an outlandish claim to demand equality and support among both moralities.

[MonkeyKaboom]

I don't see why Renegade is always equal to selfish douche bag in all these games. Its narrow and unoriginal. The renegade option could have been a good story option had they fleshed it out. Renegade Shep doesn't need to be an ****. That doesn't equal Renegade at all. He can still be compassionate, rational, etc. I think the best model they could have used for Renegade Shep would have been someone along the lines of John McClane from Die Hard.

[SeaSquared]

I have had thoughts on this since ME1, like many others, and Ive come to the conclusion that generally renegades get a more shallow and instant reward or they get the same thing overall but with a different method mostly.

But I think on the long term paragons get the better deal, which I think is realistic as the simple fact is if Shepard acted renegade in real life then there would likely have allready been worse consequences than the game has, being "renegade" is often a bad way of doing things both morally but also practically as you do foolish things like turn others away from you.

in short, I think punishing renegades to a point is a good thing since you reap what you sow.

edit: and for the record of the people who think renegade shouldnt be the "dick" all the time, its not always, when I play renegade im what some have coined as "paragade" in that im gruff and stern but with a heart and reasonable personality, my inspiration being something like Clint Eastwood.

If you dont want to be a dick, then dont pick the dick options all the time xD

although Ill admit that the way ME2 is set up your kind of punished for not going all out on paragon or renegade, since mixing means possibly failing important dialog checks.

Modifié par SeaSquared, 15 juillet 2011 - 02:41 .

[F00lishG]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

There's no exception there when the topic is favoritism. The Paragon decisions didn't have to turn out like they did... the cards could have been dealt differently and I'm sure you would've had something different to say in that case...

Say... for example, trying to save the Council in that critical moment left no time to prevent Sovereign from summoning the Reapers and resulted in Critical Mission Failure... (the Council also dies).

Is it the thought that counts?

Well not in that scenario since there is a Critical Mission Failure. I will say this, perhaps a Paragon Shepard should've got more flack for saving the Council. The political ramifications could've been dire; Shanxi all over again with being considered a traitor to the human race. Posthumously court martialed, posthumously demoted. Hated by every human who recognizes you and mocked by every Krogan and Batarian you meet? Now that's a card.

But speaking seriously, is Paragon really the best outcome? Is Paragon really the favorite? We already know about the Rachni Husk. There are at least 740 Reapers coming, and indoctrinated or not, chances are we should have kept that Reaper Base for TIM. And who says that Legion can honestly be trusted? .

besides according to spoilers we Paragons will have a hard ass time keeping every race out there happy. It may be like Jerry Springer in Space, where if we can't make everyone play nice, we are all going to die. But Renegades, well you can just take out a shotgun and either those races fall in line or you kill them all before the Reapers.

Maybe the "Best Outcomes" in Mass Effect 2 was the calm before the storm. Maybe there is no favorite. Maybe come March the shoe will be on the other foot. 

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

I don't see why Renegade is always equal to selfish douche bag in all these games. Its narrow and unoriginal. The renegade option could have been a good story option had they fleshed it out. Renegade Shep doesn't need to be an ****. That doesn't equal Renegade at all. He can still be compassionate, rational, etc. I think the best model they could have used for Renegade Shep would have been someone along the lines of John McClane from Die Hard.

You know, funny thing is, I was on ME Wiki looking up the morality bonus points and noticed there really isn't a consistency in Renegade. There's at least 3-5kinds of Renegade because every answer you pick contradicts Shepard's personality.

A Shepard who's a total dick to the the Dead Virmire Squadmate will say they died a hero and helped Shep stopped Saren. This can be the same Shepard who if had the Sole Survivor Military History will think absoletely nothing of Jenkins dying and say "When your time is up. It's up." This is also the same Shepard who can be a psychopath and indirectly kill Gianna Parasini(That's not Renegade. That's just Evil.)

Modifié par F00lishG, 15 juillet 2011 - 03:15 .

[PrinceLionheart]

There's an easy solution to this: Don't play 100% one way or the other. TC didn't say this, but of all tings, complaining about missing on content because you killed the character to be stupid.

As for paragon choices coming back to bite you? Exactly how many Renegade choices have come back to bite you again? Just about the only thing I can think of is the new council refusing to have an audience with you ("Paragon Players" instead have the pleasure of the Old Council ridiculing them.)

[JayhartRIC]

It takes all the weight out of a decision when you already know there is no risk in choosing the paragon decision. If you play the "reluctant" renegade who feels he has to make the hard choices and has to carry the weight of those decisions, it comes off weak when everything turns out basically the same. If that is the case there is no real decision.

[Pulletlamer]

I think the thread title question should be: Can we not  have Renegade = worst outcome?

Since I actually consider than more than paragon being always good, it's renegade that's most of the time bad.

Seems like It's the same but it actually isn't.

Most of the time renegade choices involve: killing someone, ending a conversation, being rude... which usually results in loosing in-game content.

I think devs should maybe make some renegade choices feel less evil, because don't forget that at the end of the day shepard is supposed to be a hero.

Still, renegade people are actually quite rewarded. You kill the batarian plague victim? You get free credits. You kill Sgt. Chatcka? The ship has half health. You throw a merc out of a window? His squad doesn't notices you....etc. etc.

Don't complain if you choose renegade. Is your choice. I can only agree that they should still make you feel like you're a hero, not a villain.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 15 juillet 2011 - 05:32 .

[MonkeyKaboom]

I just think the whole, Renegade = jackass is a cop out. Shep is a hero, whether he follows the established protocols or not. Like I said, John McClane. Or better yet, perfect Renegade with a just cause...Wyatt Earp. By today's laws, he would have been hanged for murder. Vigilantism and all that. But he did what had to be done and his motives might have been revenge but they benefited the common good. That's a renegade hero.

[InkognitoY]

I do find that renegade often seems to be taken down the wrong path. Why does being badass mean you also have to be a complete jerk?

I was showing one of my friends Mass Effect and he was like, "you should go renegade because then you're the hardened badass." If only it also didn't mean being a terrible person.

[MonkeyKaboom]

Saphra Deden wrote...

What does Renegade do that is so terrible? I guess there's maybe one line in each game that is a bit racist, but that's it.

Having little patience and mission focus doesn't make Shepard a bad person.

Your quote says it all.  I don't see renegade as "having little patience" at all.  At least it shouldn't be.  I think renegade shep is the most mission tuned.  Its not about lack of patience.  Its about practicality and to use in confines of the story (counsel denial), frustration with the system that's blind to the obvious.  If anything paragon shep would petition, use deplomacy, proper channels and all that.  The story as portrayed as canon is really more renegade in nature.  But that's not the direction they took it.  They went the easy road and said renegade shep, insult everyone you meet.  Cuz you're a hard***

Modifié par MonkeyKaboom, 16 juillet 2011 - 02:14 .

[Ryzaki]

...Renegade Shepard is often a douche just to be a douche. Telling Jack "a bullet to the head solves everything." yeah that's real helpful Shepard. Cursing people out. Punching a mentally imbalanced person in the head.

That's not funny. It's pathetic.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

JayhartRIC wrote...

It takes all the weight out of a decision when you already know there is no risk in choosing the paragon decision. If you play the "reluctant" renegade who feels he has to make the hard choices and has to carry the weight of those decisions, it comes off weak when everything turns out basically the same. If that is the case there is no real decision.

This is what it comes down to.  Past all the "Paragon this" and "Renegade that"... it's about being able to make a meaningful choice without knowing that the game's most positive results are rigged to Paragon.

And no, acting like a Renegade does is not the reason why there's less content and positive validation... the reason is because Bioware did not provide that content for Renegade decisions like they did for Paragon decisions.

[Ryzaki]

He comes pretty close.

Except it doesn't. Shepard getting no support isn't solved by a bullet the the head, the Reaper problem isn't gonna be solved by a bullet to the head. Jack trying to get over her past isn't gonna be solved by a bullet to the head.

Except that he doesn't. So...yeah. And plenty of people agree with some of the dumb crap Paragon Shep says. That doesn't make it anymore right.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

@Ryzaki, if you're referring to when Shepard knocked out that mad scientist in Mass Effect 1, he gave a very plausible reason... the scientist was unstable and could've done something dangerous (think Dead Space)... notice that Shepard didn't kill him either.

That scene is proof that Shepard doesn't do things "just" to be a jerk... and that many jump to conclusions regarding the method to Shep's... angriness.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 16 juillet 2011 - 02:33 .

[Seboist]

A bullet in the head DOES solve everything. How else could Shepard go through all those Geth,Mercs and Collectors?

[Ryzaki]

*shrugs*

I could point to such interpretations of paragon actions that aren't just "for the warm fuzzies" and can be pragamatic of themselves. Doesn't stop people from calling them "warm fuzzies" options and not gonna stop me from calling 90% of what comes out of renedouche's mouth jerkwad options. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 juillet 2011 - 02:35 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Seboist wrote...

A bullet in the head DOES solve everything. How else could Shepard go through all those Geth,Mercs and Collectors?

Good point.  Everything in their proper contexts.  A Bullet to the head solved Saren didn't it?