1768 réponses à ce sujet

[Wiggs Magee]

From what I've heard and seen in ME3 in the first mission on earth you find a child hiding in a vent, the paragon option is to convince him to leave and find a shuttle to evacuate. It is then shown later in the level the same child getting into a shuttle only for it to be blown up mid-flight. So i guess Bioware have listened to you.
I apologize if this has already been stated or I'm wrong.

[ODST 3]

Nope, when the Reapers wipe out all life in the galaxy, my Renegade Shepard will consider it a win.

[Chris Priestly]

ODST 3 wrote...

Nope, when the Reapers wipe out all life in the galaxy, my Renegade Shepard will consider it a win.

You mean when she/he is dead then?

[Darth_Trethon]

Chris Priestly wrote...

ODST 3 wrote...

Nope, when the Reapers wipe out all life in the galaxy, my Renegade Shepard will consider it a win.

You mean when she/he is dead then?

Look, I think that you are right in the aspect that there's no siding with the reapers so that kind of choice for the player doesn't make sense. But at the same time I think there's too heavy a footprint across all choices that says paragon=best outcome....this deni\\es the notion that life is hard a lot of times and hard choices have to be made. The ME1 bomb hugging choice was ok but never classified as paragon/renegade. I want for once to see a realistic choice where being overly merciful in one choice comes back and bites you HARD.

[ODST 3]

Chris Priestly wrote...

ODST 3 wrote...

Nope, when the Reapers wipe out all life in the galaxy, my Renegade Shepard will consider it a win.

You mean when she/he is dead then?

Much like the krogan, he considers a violent and epic death to be the pinnacle of honor. There will be nothing left to achieve afterwards.

[N172]

Paragon/Renegate is not about Good/Bad, its more about Difficult/Easy.

Just think about the 3 renegate interrupts in Mirandas Loyalty-, Mordins Loyalty- and Garrus Recruitmentmission:
- The first kills a bunch of enemies you otherwise have to fight
- The second kills 1 Krogan
- The third weakens the Endboss
Its not bad since you kill them anyway but its easier.

In Talis Loyalty-Mission you have the option to unearth new evidence, to tell the truth to people who deserve or even need to know is no bad thing but you get renegate points.
Same thing here: Its not bad, its easier since you dont need to unlock an answer or Veetor and Kal'Reegar.
Btw: Kal'Reegar might be dead if you allowed him to help sheppard on haestrom (paragon = instruct him to stay down = higher difficulty)

And there is the thing with the money and other rewards, examples:
Zaeed Loyalty: Paragon 85000 (60000cr+25000cr upgrade) / Renegate 89000 (39000cr+50000cr upgrade
Samara-Recruitment: Paragon 55200 / Renegate 60000
Legion-Recruitment: Paragon 0 / Renegate 50000 (and you dont get Legion)

It comes down to this:
Paragon: The long difficult way, less money and better outcomes
Renegate: Shortcuts and more money, but some bad outcomes

[rolson00]

StrawberryViking wrote...

 EDIT: Title change- Apparently I was unclear when I made the title of the first, so hopefully you won't get more "But everyone will win in some form, so it's a moot point."

(To me at leaSt) I've always felt that paragon was always the safest route to go, and it is to my understanding that most people believe that overall paragon choices usually fare better in the long run. 

But in ME3, I want the tagline for ME1 (Extinction is one descision away) to be true. I want it so that victory isn't assured simply because you pick the option in the upper corner. Renegade has simply been degraded to the image of "ruthless douchebag"  whose actions seem trivial and needless in the scope of the entire game because for the most part renegade usually equates to less content (with the killing of characters) and in this aspect it feels like the renegade is being punished. I also in the belief that renegade seems this way because the benefits of their actions never really come to fruition like paragon's do, and in fact in that sense it seems needless. The Rachni for example, you kill the rachni queen as a rengade 'just to be safe', which I believe with the information you are given is a perfectly valid reason. However, if as a paragon you let her live, you are forced to realize that killing her as a renegade was all for naught.

The only renegade decision that I find that was truly "victory" for renegades was on Samara's recruitment with Elnora. You are specifically told before you start that every eclipse sister has to earn her uniform by killing. When you encounter her, Renegades, while not immediatly shooting her upon seeing her uniform, does kill her after a presumed act of hostility. The paragon lets her go, and finds out afterwards she was infact a ruthless killer and murdered the volus. 

Just once I want a paragon decision to bite us in the ass. It's all I ask. War (or perhaps genocide) is mean business and I want

I know the usual convention is paragon=good, renegade=bad, but I do believe that you can't be a saint all the time and expect to end up on top. The saying goes "Nice guys finish last.", while not completely true, you can't win trying to appease everybody. 

no little things like Elnora sure but big things? hell no and renegade doesnt = bad it just means shep will let hundreds die to save millions. what i propose is renegades get something different(i think bioware has said they are doing this already).

[Darth_Trethon]

N172 wrote...

Paragon/Renegate is not about Good/Bad, its more about Difficult/Easy.

Just think about the 3 renegate interrupts in Mirandas Loyalty-, Mordins Loyalty- and Garrus Recruitmentmission:
- The first kills a bunch of enemies you otherwise have to fight
- The second kills 1 Krogan
- The third weakens the Endboss
Its not bad since you kill them anyway but its easier.

In Talis Loyalty-Mission you have the option to unearth new evidence, to tell the truth to people who deserve or even need to know is no bad thing but you get renegate points.
Same thing here: Its not bad, its easier since you dont need to unlock an answer or Veetor and Kal'Reegar.
Btw: Kal'Reegar might be dead if you allowed him to help sheppard on haestrom (paragon = instruct him to stay down = higher difficulty)

And there is the thing with the money and other rewards, examples:
Zaeed Loyalty: Paragon 85000 (60000cr+25000cr upgrade) / Renegate 89000 (39000cr+50000cr upgrade
Samara-Recruitment: Paragon 55200 / Renegate 60000
Legion-Recruitment: Paragon 0 / Renegate 50000 (and you dont get Legion)

It comes down to this:
Paragon: The long difficult way, less money and better outcomes
Renegate: Shortcuts and more money, but some bad outcomes

That's not what they should be about when deciding the fate of the gallaxy and it's completely the wrong approach to choices. For one nothing really big or important is ever going to be easy or have shorcuts and the second thing is.....where are the bloody long term consequences? Take the BDtS big choice or Zaeed's buddy and all the similar choices? There is virtually zero consequence to making the rather foolish paragon choices whereas there's always a measure of negative when making renegade. The point is that if you let go highly skilled and capable ruthless people go they are not just going to turn themselves in to the cops and there should be(at least some of the time) very strong consequences. You want to save three people now and let go the ones that nearly destroyed a planet then likewise expect that they do go on and cause massive and severe damage elsewhere.

This isn't about any one speciffic choice but when ALL of them fall into the same black/white box the game loses depth and becomes little more than a cheesy fairy tale.....life is not just or fair or considerate and while not every good decission needs devastating outcomes at least one or two should have that.

[Thompson family]

I'd reply to this topic if there was anything new to say.

[CerberusWarrior]

well Paragons should be happy hell Bioware has been backing them the whole time . unless something has changed I do not see any way us renegades will get any respect in ME 3

[Darth_Trethon]

CerberusWarrior wrote...

well Paragons should be happy hell Bioware has been backing them the whole time . unless something has changed I do not see any way us renegades will get any respect in ME 3

I wouldn't even have that much of a problem with the Paragon path if half of the choices weren't plain stupid.

[Yezdigerd]

rolson00 wrote...

Renegade has simply been degraded to the image of "ruthless douchebag"  whose actions seem trivial and needless in the scope of the entire game because for the most part renegade usually equates to less content (with the killing of characters) and in this aspect it feels like the renegade is being punished.

Renegade has always been like that, starting with beating up the mentally deficent Manuel on Eden Prime for no reason. The point of  the renegade is being allowed to do outrageous things for the lulz factor. The reward is the cathartic experience of being mean and you are rewarded for that on the spot.
A good example is beating up Khalisah Bint Sinan al-Jilani  a very popular renegade action, yet everyone above the age of 10 would understand why it's a bad idea for government agents with a license to kill to beat up members of the free press on a live broadcast and would result in a suspension at the very least with a mimimal reality check. Yet the game doesn't punish the renegade for acting like s/he is isane and people are looking forward to beating her up in ME3.
The paragon path is about actually roleplaying a futuristic space marine.

[rolson00]

Yezdigerd wrote...

rolson00 wrote...

Renegade has simply been degraded to the image of "ruthless douchebag"  whose actions seem trivial and needless in the scope of the entire game because for the most part renegade usually equates to less content (with the killing of characters) and in this aspect it feels like the renegade is being punished.

Renegade has always been like that, starting with beating up the mentally deficent Manuel on Eden Prime for no reason. The point of  the renegade is being allowed to do outrageous things for the lulz factor. The reward is the cathartic experience of being mean and you are rewarded for that on the spot.
A good example is beating up Khalisah Bint Sinan al-Jilani  a very popular renegade action, yet everyone above the age of 10 would understand why it's a bad idea for government agents with a license to kill to beat up members of the free press on a live broadcast and would result in a suspension at the very least with a mimimal reality check. Yet the game doesn't punish the renegade for acting like s/he is isane and people are looking forward to beating her up in ME3.
The paragon path is about actually roleplaying a futuristic space marine.

err i didnt say that...

[Kaiser Shepard]

Yezdigerd wrote...

rolson00 wrote...

Renegade has simply been degraded to the image of "ruthless douchebag"  whose actions seem trivial and needless in the scope of the entire game because for the most part renegade usually equates to less content (with the killing of characters) and in this aspect it feels like the renegade is being punished.

Renegade has always been like that, starting with beating up the mentally deficent Manuel on Eden Prime for no reason. The point of  the renegade is being allowed to do outrageous things for the lulz factor. The reward is the cathartic experience of being mean and you are rewarded for that on the spot.
A good example is beating up Khalisah Bint Sinan al-Jilani  a very popular renegade action, yet everyone above the age of 10 would understand why it's a bad idea for government agents with a license to kill to beat up members of the free press on a live broadcast and would result in a suspension at the very least with a mimimal reality check. Yet the game doesn't punish the renegade for acting like s/he is isane and people are looking forward to beating her up in ME3.

Because those are obviously the defining moments of the Renegade...

The paragon path is about actually roleplaying a futuristic space marine.

But less of a marine than with the Renegade path.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 22 novembre 2011 - 11:50 .

[AVPen]

N172 wrote...

In Talis Loyalty-Mission you have the option to unearth new evidence, to tell the truth to people who deserve or even need to know is no bad thing but you get renegate points.
Same thing here: Its not bad, its easier since you dont need to unlock an answer or Veetor and Kal'Reegar.
Btw: Kal'Reegar might be dead if you allowed him to help sheppard on haestrom (paragon = instruct him to stay down = higher difficulty)

If you're talking from a story perspective, then yes, the Paragon path of telling him to stay down is the more difficult path (since you have no help in taking down the Colossus), but from a gameplay persective, I find trying to beat the Colossus before it can kill Kal'Reeger is a more difficult path (especially on Hardcore and Insanity).

N172 wrote...

And there is the thing with the money and other rewards, examples:
Zaeed Loyalty: Paragon 85000 (60000cr+25000cr upgrade) / Renegate 89000 (39000cr+50000cr upgrade
Samara-Recruitment: Paragon 55200 / Renegate 60000
Legion-Recruitment: Paragon 0 / Renegate 50000 (and you dont get Legion)

Not sure where you got those numbers, but actually, the Paragon path on Zaeed's LM gives you more credits than the Renegade oath, since you recieve a reward for save the refinery and workers from the corporation who owns it (Paragon path = 60,000 credits, Renegade path = 39,000 credits).

Modifié par AVPen, 23 novembre 2011 - 12:04 .

[Lord Zeel]

Damn I keep hearing **** about the leaks.

I dont want any spoils, but can someone answer me this. Do I need to make a paragon play though to get a decent ending in me3?

[Thompson family]

rolson00 wrote...

err i didnt say that...

Yes, that is a misattribution. StrawberryViking wrote the quoted comment. You were responding to it.

[Goody Two Shoes]

This is why I mod P/R points onto my character so I don't have to play strictly paragon or strictly renegade.

[Thompson family]

Lord Zeel wrote...

Damn I keep hearing **** about the leaks.

I dont want any spoils, but can someone answer me this. Do I need to make a paragon play though to get a decent ending in me3?

That's impossible to answer without a precise definition of "decent," especially if you don't allow spoilers.

Let's talk about BW's "Knights of the Old Republic" and draw parallels:

Can you win KOTOR without a Dark Side playthrough? Yes
Can you win the game and become the Almighty God Sith Lord of the Universe WITH a PARAGON playthrough? No.

I'm betting the situation will be much the same.

[Lord Zeel]

Goody Two Shoes wrote...

This is why I mod P/R points onto my character so I don't have to play strictly paragon or strictly renegade.

The problem isn't playing "strictly" renegade or "Strictly" paragon. 

The problem I see is that renegade decisions are usually nonsensical. If they aren't going to try and incorporate our choices in the game and make them reasonable, why include it and lie to us about it? I mean. There's probably only a handful of "right" renegade decisions.

A. Continue Genophage
B. Don't rewrite the geth.
C. Kill Council (But even this is turned into a bad-bad by the next game)


Everything else, is like shooting myself in the foot.