1768 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Zeel]

Thompson family wrote...



That's impossible to answer without a precise definition of "decent," especially if you don't allow spoilers.

Let's talk about BW's "Knights of the Old Republic" and draw parallels:

Can you win KOTOR without a Dark Side playthrough? Yes
Can you win the game and become the Almighty God Sith Lord of the Universe WITH a PARAGON playthrough? No.

I'm betting the situation will be much the same.

Let me try and clarify. Will my ending be:


OH my god everyone is dead because i killed the stupid rachni freak

or

Oh my god everyone is okay, with minimal casualities cause I killed the stupid rachni freak

Modifié par Lord Zeel, 23 novembre 2011 - 12:07 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Lord Zeel wrote...

Damn I keep hearing **** about the leaks.

I dont want any spoils, but can someone answer me this. Do I need to make a paragon play though to get a decent ending in me3?

Not sure how all of them they directly or indirectly affect the ending, but let's just say that BioWare themselves describe a mostly Renegade import as a "failure" one in the leaked files.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 23 novembre 2011 - 12:13 .

[Thompson family]

Lord Zeel wrote...


Let me try and clarify. Will my ending be:


OH my god everyone is dead because i killed the stupid rachni freak

or

Oh my god everyone is okay, with minimal casualities cause I killed the stupid rachni freak

Can't ask for a clearer question than that.

According to the spoilers, which I will not repeat, the answer is:

BioWare is telling the truth. You will not get a free pass either way. There are costs and benefits involved either way.

[Thompson family]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Not sure how all of them they directly or indirectly affect the ending, but let's just say that BioWare themselves describe a mostly Renegade import as a "failure" one in the leaked files.

I'm going to challenge you to cite your evidence there, KS. If you don't want to quote spoilers, PM me.

Modifié par Thompson family, 23 novembre 2011 - 12:21 .

[CerberusWarrior]

If that is true then Bioware has some explaining to do with the whole Paragon / Renegade choice system in the 3 games . because it will be complete bull sh*t that they totally side with Paragons in 3

[Kaiser Shepard]

Thompson family wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Not sure how all of them they directly or indirectly affect the ending, but let's just say that BioWare themselves describe a mostly Renegade import as a "failure" one in the leaked files.

I'm going to challenge you to cite your evidence there, KS.

Ctrl+F your files for "ME2Failure".

[Thompson family]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Ctrl+F your files for "ME2Failure".

That gets all your squadmates killed.

You can't look at any playthrough, paragon or renegade, that does almost nothing to further the succces of the mission and then blame failure on having slapped a reporter.

[N172]

AVPen wrote...

N172 wrote...

Btw: Kal'Reegar might be dead if you allowed him to help sheppard on haestrom (paragon = instruct him to stay down = higher difficulty)

If you're talking from a story perspective, then yes, the Paragon path of telling him to stay down is the more difficult path (since you have no help in taking down the Colossus), but from a gameplay persective, I find trying to beat the Colossus before it can kill Kal'Reeger is a more difficult path (especially on Hardcore and Insanity).

If your Sheppard want him to survive he tells him to stay down, to let him fight if you want him alive is like restrict yourself to use only pistols or somthing like that, it is a challenge for the player, but not a valid argument.
Sheppard want him alive => Sheppard tells him to stay down, everything else makes no sense

AVPen wrote...

N172 wrote...

And there is the thing with the money and other rewards, examples:
Zaeed Loyalty: Paragon 85000 (60000cr+25000cr upgrade) / Renegate 89000 (39000cr+50000cr upgrade

Not sure where you got those numbers, but actually, the Paragon path on Zaeed's LM gives you more credits than the Renegade oath, since you recieve a reward for save the refinery and workers from the corporation who owns it (Paragon path = 60,000 credits, Renegade path = 39,000 credits).

I said "other rewards", you get different upgrades depending on your choice in this mission:
- A heavy weapon ammo upgrade (worth 25000cr)
- An assault rifle upgrade (worth 50000cr)
AR-DMG cost twice as much as HWA.

Modifié par N172, 23 novembre 2011 - 12:52 .

[Yezdigerd]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
 ME3.Because those are obviously the defining moments of the Renegade...

The stigma of the newsreel replaying the assault on Khalissa, should certainly be be a prominent association to Shepard in the galactic community. A defining moment for humanitys first spectre indeed.
Manuel sets the tone. The renegade Shepard, an unstable officer, prone to random acts of meaningless violence, is not a degeneration but something that has always been in the game from the first scene.
Renegades has realitywarping superpowers so it doesn't matter how many people they murder, assault or mistreat.
You can even cut of the Citadel Council reports without being disciplined. It's amusing how some renegades seems to take it seriously.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 23 novembre 2011 - 12:56 .

[Thompson family]

Saphra Deden wrote...

He gave you proof, Thompson. Go read it for yourself. Making excuses and trying to backpedal just makes you look bad.

A failure import is described as "predominantly renegade".

SD; even you can't seriously contend that getting all your squadmates killed is not clearly the chief distinguishing feature of ME2Failure.

Modifié par Thompson family, 23 novembre 2011 - 01:19 .

[Lord Zeel]

Are you suggesting that there are benefits to the renegade decisions?


What i'm getting from this topic is the exact opposite.


Guess, I should start on that paragon playthrough.

Modifié par Lord Zeel, 23 novembre 2011 - 01:29 .

[AVPen]

N172 wrote...

AVPen wrote...

N172 wrote...

Btw: Kal'Reegar might be dead if you allowed him to help sheppard on haestrom (paragon = instruct him to stay down = higher difficulty)

If you're talking from a story perspective, then yes, the Paragon path of telling him to stay down is the more difficult path (since you have no help in taking down the Colossus), but from a gameplay persective, I find trying to beat the Colossus before it can kill Kal'Reeger is a more difficult path (especially on Hardcore and Insanity).

If your Sheppard want him to survive he tells him to stay down, to let him fight if you want him alive is like restrict yourself to use only pistols or somthing like that, it is a challenge for the player, but not a valid argument.
Sheppard want him alive => Sheppard tells him to stay down, everything else makes no sense

And as I had said (and which you didn't bother to address), I was speaking from a gameplay perspective, not a narrative/character perspective. <_<

N172 wrote...

AVPen wrote...

N172 wrote...

And there is the thing with the money and other rewards, examples:
Zaeed Loyalty: Paragon 85000 (60000cr+25000cr upgrade) / Renegate 89000 (39000cr+50000cr upgrade

Not sure where you got those numbers, but actually, the Paragon path on Zaeed's LM gives you more credits than the Renegade oath, since you recieve a reward for save the refinery and workers from the corporation who owns it (Paragon path = 60,000 credits, Renegade path = 39,000 credits).

I said "other rewards", you get different upgrades depending on your choice in this mission:
- A heavy weapon ammo upgrade (worth 25000cr)
- An assault rifle upgrade (worth 50000cr)
AR-DMG cost twice as much as HWA.

Unless you can sell those upgrades for credits (which, of course, you can't), then attaching prices to those upgrades from Zaeed's LM is meaningless because each upgrade is gotten for free on that mission and the value of each upgrade is dependent on the player's personal preference and playstyle.
(and yes, before you say anything, I know full well that the prices you listed are the ones that are listed from the vendors who sell those specific upgrades)

Modifié par AVPen, 23 novembre 2011 - 02:34 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

People are asking for the opposite more like people who hate paragons want the paragons to fail I can see why some of the para choices shouldn't always equal win or always equal the best outcome but I do think its stupid to have it para equals game fail. I liked how in arrival my para option failed it was a shock but a good one maybe shep trying to do a few things para don't succeed or the person takes it badly but I don't think paras should always be punished and rens always be rewarded I find rens need to have more bad outcomes they get away with so much that in life wouldn't be tolerated for instance handing the base over to TIM hurts them big later due to mass indoctrination of a species because of what TIM learned from it or Cerberus is a stronger enemy for ren import sheps because they gave tim the base and they all got indoctrinated by it. I don't think being ren should equal a win just because you're a jerk.

I think what you do or don't do decision by decision sidequest by sidequest and whom you do or don't help main character or key species wise should aid along with decisions made during ME - ME2 will determine what happens at the end of 3.

[Thompson family]

Saphra Deden wrote...

dip****.

Always a pleasure, SD.

[Fixers0]

Saphra Deden wrote...

A failure import is described as "predominantly renegade".

Were did that exactly show up.

[Pharos]

Fixers0 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

A failure import is described as "predominantly renegade".

Were did that exactly show up.

I haven't read the leaks so i can't speak with any authority on that...however:

I don't think BioWare would play it that way, they'd catch too much flak for defining what is 'right'.

Chances are that decisions made in ME1 & 2 will have an effect, but smaller that some people think. Making one choice might make a certain mission harder while making another easier, or perhaps make a race more willing to co-operate and another less so; while taking the other path has a different set of consequences. Decisions made in ME3, however, will probably have a strong effect: If ParaShep farts around rescuing every stranded kitten he comes across things will likely go poorly, as will a ReneShep who throws his allies into meatgrinder situations or who clearly favours the survival of one race over that of the others.

 

Modifié par Pharos, 23 novembre 2011 - 09:20 .

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

StrawberryViking wrote...
I know the usual convention is paragon=good, renegade=bad, but I do believe that you can't be a saint all the time and expect to end up on top. The saying goes "Nice guys finish last.", while not completely true, you can't win trying to appease everybody. 

Actually, it would be more true to says that when it comes to important decisions parangon=making a bet, renegade=taking no risk.
So you generally knows what will happens when you choose renegade and you are hoping it will go right when you are choosing paragan, which doesn't mean it "should" go bad, just that it "may" go bad, so even if none of the paragon decision go bad I would see no problems with that.

[Nerevar-as]

AVPen wrote...

N172 wrote...

AVPen wrote...

N172 wrote...

Btw: Kal'Reegar might be dead if you allowed him to help sheppard on haestrom (paragon = instruct him to stay down = higher difficulty)

If you're talking from a story perspective, then yes, the Paragon path of telling him to stay down is the more difficult path (since you have no help in taking down the Colossus), but from a gameplay persective, I find trying to beat the Colossus before it can kill Kal'Reeger is a more difficult path (especially on Hardcore and Insanity).

If your Sheppard want him to survive he tells him to stay down, to let him fight if you want him alive is like restrict yourself to use only pistols or somthing like that, it is a challenge for the player, but not a valid argument.
Sheppard want him alive => Sheppard tells him to stay down, everything else makes no sense

And as I had said (and which you didn't bother to address), I was speaking from a gameplay perspective, not a narrative/character perspective. <_<

N172 wrote...

AVPen wrote...

N172 wrote...

And there is the thing with the money and other rewards, examples:
Zaeed Loyalty: Paragon 85000 (60000cr+25000cr upgrade) / Renegate 89000 (39000cr+50000cr upgrade

Not sure where you got those numbers, but actually, the Paragon path on Zaeed's LM gives you more credits than the Renegade oath, since you recieve a reward for save the refinery and workers from the corporation who owns it (Paragon path = 60,000 credits, Renegade path = 39,000 credits).

I said "other rewards", you get different upgrades depending on your choice in this mission:
- A heavy weapon ammo upgrade (worth 25000cr)
- An assault rifle upgrade (worth 50000cr)
AR-DMG cost twice as much as HWA.

Unless you can sell those upgrades for credits (which, of course, you can't), then attaching prices to those upgrades from Zaeed's LM is meaningless because each upgrade is gotten for free on that mission and the value of each upgrade is dependent on the player's personal preference and playstyle.
(and yes, before you say anything, I know full well that the prices you listed are the ones that are listed from the vendors who sell those specific upgrades)

Paragon path means you can research the Cain for Horizon. That´s 2/3 of Praetorian bar on Insanity (maybe a one hit kill on lower difficulties?). So it makes things much easier than a +10% AR damage.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

StrawberryViking wrote...
I know the usual convention is paragon=good, renegade=bad, but I do believe that you can't be a saint all the time and expect to end up on top. The saying goes "Nice guys finish last.", while not completely true, you can't win trying to appease everybody. 

Actually, it would be more true to says that when it comes to important decisions parangon=making a bet, renegade=taking no risk.
So you generally knows what will happens when you choose renegade and you are hoping it will go right when you are choosing paragan, which doesn't mean it "should" go bad, just that it "may" go bad, so even if none of the paragon decision go bad I would see no problems with that.

No. Both are bets.

Only renegade ones are usually safer bets.

[Yezdigerd]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Paragon path means you can research the Cain for Horizon. That´s 2/3 of Praetorian bar on Insanity (maybe a one hit kill on lower difficulties?). So it makes things much easier than a +10% AR damage.

It depends on what you use, I always predominantly use the AR regardless of class and would always pick the ar upgrade. Having the Cain on Horizon means that you have to run around less before it dies, but mostly heavy weapons just slows you down.

[Thompson family]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...
Actually, it would be more true to says that when it comes to important decisions parangon=making a bet, renegade=taking no risk.

^This.

[Thompson family]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No. Both are bets.

Only renegade ones are usually safer bets.

Not for the victims.